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Turkey and Russia Show That Land Grabs Can Pay Off

Rogue Valley

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Turkey and Russia Show That Land Grabs Can Pay Off | The Moscow Times

Erdogan and Putin are shredding the myth that countries no longer tear other countries apart.

13961002000747_PhotoI.jpg


10/16/19
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s land grab in Syria, like his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin’s Crimea annexation, has met with a weak international response. Will that encourage more land grabs? Any nations thinking of doing so should be warned: Such conquests succeed only if they don’t set off full-scale wars. The U.S. has frozen the assets of the Turkish defense and energy ministries as well as those of the defense, energy and interior ministers. President Donald Trump also promised to stop negotiations with Turkey on a trade deal and to raise tariffs on Turkish steel. Turkey will barely notice these sanctions. It’s likely that the ministries and officials have no U.S. assets, and their ability to continue using U.S. financial assets through other branches of the Turkish government is more or less unlimited. The European Union, for its part, agreed that its member states would commit “to strong national positions regarding their arms export policy to Turkey” — not quite an arms embargo, but a recommendation that European nations stop selling arms to Ankara. This is something Germany, Finland, France, the Netherlands and Sweden have already promised to do. Erdogan could have lived with a full embargo, too: Russia is only too happy to sell him more weapons. Like Putin before him, Erdogan can rest easy that his country won’t be hit with anything resembling the harsh UN Security Council-authorized sanctions slapped on Iraq after it invaded Kuwait in 1990. Those included an all-embracing trade and financial embargo. The weakness of the Crimea- and northern Syria-related sanctions undermines the idea of a “territorial integrity norm” that is supposed to have crystallized in the post-World War II era.

All this makes Putin’s Crimea grab a relatively typical success story for modern-day conquest. It involved little violence, and Putin correctly calculated that third-party intervention would be weak. On the other hand, Russia’s interference in eastern Ukraine is more of a miscalculation: It set off a war, and Russia hopes to hand the territories now held by pro-Moscow separatists back to Ukraine if it can get favorable peace terms. In Syria, Erdogan apparently also hoped for a Crimea-style fait accompli. But recent developments on the ground — such as the Syrian military’s intervention on the side of the Kurdish forces, as well as Russia’s insistence that Turkey shouldn’t hold on to any of the invaded territory — show that he may have miscalculated, just as Putin did in eastern Ukraine. The weak Western reaction won’t force Erdogan to retreat. But the possibility of an all-out war might thwart his plan to clear a 30-kilometer “safe zone” in Syria. He may need to make a deal with Putin and Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad. This could involve allowing him to resettle in northern Syria some of the 3.7 million Syrian refugees Turkey has been sheltering and no longer wants, perhaps making Russia and the Assad regime responsible for holding back any anti-Turkish activity along the border. When it comes to conquests, it’s not clear whether any kind of operational “rules-based order” has ever existed. Putin and Erdogan are just taking more risk than is customary. The authoritarians play for big stakes. Erdogan’s Syria move is a gamble — but not because he can be held responsible for violating some important norm.

Due to the weak responses of the West, we will no doubt be seeing more limited scale conquests by rogue states.

Russia has stolen the Sea of Azov. China has already stolen (she claims) the South China Sea. Perhaps Taiwan is next on Beijing's conquest menu.
 
Good, Russia should gobble up the rest of Ukraine.
 
It's how Hitler got his start. He seized the Sudetenland and Britain and France said nothing.

Don't point fingers at me when your sons and daughters are covered in blood and gore, fighting in yet one more war to end all wars.
 
Turkey and Russia Show That Land Grabs Can Pay Off | The Moscow Times
Erdogan and Putin are shredding the myth that countries no longer tear other countries apart.
Due to the weak responses of the West, we will no doubt be seeing more limited scale conquests by rogue states.
Russia has stolen the Sea of Azov. China has already stolen (she claims) the South China Sea. Perhaps Taiwan is next on Beijing's conquest menu.

Pretty sure Trump is just about to get ready to be fixin to prepare to obliterate and destroy Turkey's economy again.

So that should put an end to all of that.

Let's hold our bated breath while we wait.
 
Well if anything it'll stop the silly spam in this forum, at the very least...

Duh. This forum was created for Russia / Ukraine threads

Concentrate real hard on that simple concept PoS
 
Turkey and Russia Show That Land Grabs Can Pay Off | The Moscow Times

Erdogan and Putin are shredding the myth that countries no longer tear other countries apart.

13961002000747_PhotoI.jpg




Due to the weak responses of the West, we will no doubt be seeing more limited scale conquests by rogue states.

Russia has stolen the Sea of Azov. China has already stolen (she claims) the South China Sea. Perhaps Taiwan is next on Beijing's conquest menu.

I'm not sure that Turkey is making a land grab. To me it just looks like they're trying to commit genocide against the Kurds. With the Kurds gone, they won't care what happens to northern Syria, they'll probably use it as a pawn in the game with Russia, make Russia happy, gain happy points by giving it back to Syria. A stable Syria is better for Turkey.

China will do what China will do. China isn't learning from Russia, it's learning from the US, and the US did enough land grabs in the day, Guantanamo Bay and the like. However China sees Taiwan as Chinese, still a part of the old civil war from 70 years ago, the Kuomintang were almost defeated, but not quite, as they're still in Taiwan. So China won't accept it as a land grab. Their land grabs are in Bhutan, India, Japan, Korea etc.
 
I'm not sure that Turkey is making a land grab. To me it just looks like they're trying to commit genocide against the Kurds. With the Kurds gone, they won't care what happens to northern Syria,

Erdogan's plan is to slaughter/ethnically-cleanse the Kurds from northern Syria, and then push the 3.6 million Sunni Arab Syrian refugees in Turkey into the Kurdish homeland (Rojava).

Trump is just fine with treating our Syrian allies this way.
 
Erdogan's plan is to slaughter/ethnically-cleanse the Kurds from northern Syria, and then push the 3.6 million Sunni Arab Syrian refugees in Turkey into the Kurdish homeland (Rojava).

Trump is just fine with treating our Syrian allies this way.

Well, that's not a land grab.
 
Erdogan's plan is to slaughter/ethnically-cleanse the Kurds from northern Syria, and then push the 3.6 million Sunni Arab Syrian refugees in Turkey into the Kurdish homeland (Rojava).

Trump is just fine with treating our Syrian allies this way.

Syria won't tolerate Turkey carving out a 70-mile chunk of its northern border. This is going to get nasty.
 
Erdogan's plan is to slaughter/ethnically-cleanse the Kurds from northern Syria, and then push the 3.6 million Sunni Arab Syrian refugees in Turkey into the Kurdish homeland (Rojava).

Trump is just fine with treating our Syrian allies this way.

Putin told him to do it...
 
Duh. This forum was created for Russia / Ukraine threads

Concentrate real hard on that simple concept PoS

When Russia takes the rest of Ukraine you wont have anything to spam about. Simple logic escapes you and chagos it seems.
 
Turkey and Russia Show That Land Grabs Can Pay Off | The Moscow Times

Erdogan and Putin are shredding the myth that countries no longer tear other countries apart.

13961002000747_PhotoI.jpg




Due to the weak responses of the West, we will no doubt be seeing more limited scale conquests by rogue states.

Russia has stolen the Sea of Azov. China has already stolen (she claims) the South China Sea. Perhaps Taiwan is next on Beijing's conquest menu.

they will lose much more in the long run , both
 
When Russia takes the rest of Ukraine you wont have anything to spam about. Simple logic escapes you and chagos it seems.

Everything you post is spam. No wonder you [attempt] to write fiction novels.
 
What is it then?

Well, you haven't claimed that Turkey is going in to take the land and make it a part of Turkey. So it's not a land grab.

It's mostly that they're going in to destroy the Kurds.
 
Everything you post is spam. No wonder you [attempt] to write fiction novels.

Well, that one is a piece of work. Russia doesn't want the rest of the Ukraine. What's the point? It's economy is shot to hell. The Crimea they wanted, and they got it.
 
Well, you haven't claimed that Turkey is going in to take the land and make it a part of Turkey. So it's not a land grab.

It's mostly that they're going in to destroy the Kurds.

Erdogan is going to ethnic-cleanse.

Where do you think those 3.8 million Syrian refugees in Turkey are going? Alabama?
 
Well, that one is a piece of work. Russia doesn't want the rest of the Ukraine. What's the point? It's economy is shot to hell. The Crimea they wanted, and they got it.

When you get your official Putin mind-reading card, let us all know.
 
Erdogan is going to ethnic-cleanse.

Where do you think those 3.8 million Syrian refugees in Turkey are going? Alabama?

Still don't know what you're going on about.

First you're talking about a land grab, then you're talking about ethnic cleansing and places Syrians are going to go. What does that have to do with land grabbing?
 
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