Trump orders national institutes of health (NIH) to study transition regret.

[CLAX1911]

Such delusions. Magnus Hirschfeld was studying trans people before you or Dr money were born.

I don't doubt that trans people that existed and some form another dating back to the beginning of civilization. But they were a rare anomaly.

 

[Xilnik]

Except its already been ****ing studied to death. You just dont like the results and theow temper tantrums…. Pfft..

I read that as Trumper tantrums for some reason. It made me laugh.

Anyway, my concern with these studies is they'll likely be more biased than most well-conducted studies. I think all studies are biased to some degree no matter how careful people are because at the end of the day, people are people. There's also more indication in recent years of studies being paid to report confirmation bias. I still prefer scientific studies with peer reviewed data over an administration that already has little credibility (almost said no credibility, but I'll be somewhat fair about broken clocks). I disagree with this being studied to death. I think more data is always good and can help others make more informed decisions.

I do know a few who have made the transition, including someone I grew up with. None of us were surprised when he chose his path. Even in preschool, he had more tendencies toward male traits. I think most people know that early in life, and adolescence is when most of us really find our identities anyway.

 

[bomberfox]

I read that as Trumper tantrums for some reason. It made me laugh.

Anyway, my concern with these studies is they'll likely be more biased than most well-conducted studies. I think all studies are biased to some degree no matter how careful people are because at the end of the day, people are people. There's also more indication in recent years of studies being paid to report confirmation bias. I still prefer scientific studies with peer reviewed data over an administration that already has little credibility (almost said no credibility, but I'll be somewhat fair about broken clocks). I disagree with this being studied to death. I think more data is always good and can help others make more informed decisions.

I do know a few who have made the transition, including someone I grew up with. None of us were surprised when he chose his path. Even in preschool, he had more tendencies toward male traits. I think most people know that early in life, and adolescence is when most of us really find our identities anyway.

I mean most of the sources come from a single guy with an axe to grind. This is “studying” to them.

 

[Lisa]

I don't doubt that trans people that existed and some form another dating back to the beginning of civilization. But they were a rare anomaly.

1% - 1.5% is still considered rare.

Who is telling you otherwise?

I mean most of the sources come from a single guy with an axe to grind. This is “studying” to them.

Glinner or Matt Walsh?

 

[Xilnik]

I mean most of the sources come from a single guy with an axe to grind. This is “studying” to them.

I expect heavy confirmation bias in this, but maybe they'll surprise us.

 

[CLAX1911]

i hated speaking with you. You never listen.

If I didn't listen I wouldn't engage with you.

Just like the entire trump administration loves to hurt people because they have the power to do so.

I understand the pain of accepting the truth and I've been through it myself. It's not the pain that I like to cause it's the healing after accepting it. It's worth it.

I really do hope they come for you when they are done with us.

Who?

 

[CLAX1911]

1% - 1.5% is still considered rare.

As a part of the population sure but it's quadrupled in like the last 15 years. It's really rather unprecedented.

Who is telling you otherwise?

I don't need to be told things I have eyes I can see.

Glinner or Matt Walsh?

No it's typically people that identify as trans.

 

[Lisa]

As a part of the population sure but it's quadrupled in like the last 15 years. It's really rather unprecedented.

Younger generatains have accurate information, so they arent going to be shamed into staying in the closet the way older demographics were. Its the same for LGB people as well.

I don't need to be told things I have eyes I can see.

Apparently you dont.

No it's typically people that identify as trans.

No, it isn't people who are trans that are harassing others.

 

[bomberfox]

1% - 1.5% is still considered rare.

Who is telling you otherwise?




Glinner or Matt Walsh?

Jesse Singal.

 

[CLAX1911]

I read that as Trumper tantrums for some reason. It made me laugh.

Anyway, my concern with these studies is they'll likely be more biased than most well-conducted studies. I think all studies are biased to some degree no matter how careful people are because at the end of the day, people are people. There's also more indication in recent years of studies being paid to report confirmation bias. I still prefer scientific studies with peer reviewed data over an administration that already has little credibility (almost said no credibility, but I'll be somewhat fair about broken clocks). I disagree with this being studied to death. I think more data is always good and can help others make more informed decisions.

Seems like you're just making excuses to deny science you don't agree with. Peer review is subject to bias and it was proven that particularly social grievance studies are extremely biased when peer-reviewed.

Peer review only works when there isn't an echo chamber.

I do know a few who have made the transition, including someone I grew up with. None of us were surprised when he chose his path. Even in preschool, he had more tendencies toward male traits. I think most people know that early in life, and adolescence is when most of us really find our identities anyway.

See this is the problem that I'm having with this whole thing. It relies on sexism. What the hell are male tendencies?

 

[CLAX1911]

Younger generatains have accurate information, so they arent going to be shamed into staying in the closet the way older demographics were. Its the same for LGB people as well.

They also have a lot more misinformation and access to adults who want to live vicariously through them.

Apparently you dont.

When I see a dude wearing makeup and a dress my brain doesn't say woman that's a crossdresser. No amount of saying the word science or pretending that science makes that person into a woman will ever make that person into a woman.

There are fundamental truths that science can't get around.

No, it isn't people who are trans that are harassing others.

I don't see a lot of people outside of the trans realm demanding people see them as the sex that they can never be.

Why wouldn't necessarily call this harassment but it is pig-headedness. And I will go as far as to call that bigotry.

 

[Xilnik]

Seems like you're just making excuses to deny science you don't agree with. Peer review is subject to bias and it was proven that particularly social grievance studies are extremely biased when peer-reviewed.

Peer review only works when there isn't an echo chamber.

Let me know when you read what I said because we actually agreed on most of what you said. The part we seem to disagree on is reliance on the scientific method, which is what I meant by well-conducted studies. I have less faith in the NIH studies using the scientific method in a meaningful way, considering RFK Jr. is interested in these after he just said he'd look into eliminating chemtrails.

See this is the problem that I'm having with this whole thing. It relies on sexism. What the hell are male tendencies?

If you are still trying to figure out where you fit into the world as a man, I'm afraid I cannot help you.

 

[CLAX1911]

Let me know when you read what I said because we actually agreed on most of what you said.

Okay perhaps I misinterpreted it or my bias was taking over. I'll read it again and try to put that aside.

The part we seem to disagree on is reliance on the scientific method, which is what I meant by well-conducted studies. I have less faith in the studies using the scientific method in a meaningful way considering RFK Jr. is interested in these after he just said he'd look into eliminating chemtrails.

Hasn't the UK government discussed funding for research into stratospheric aerosol injection as an effort to dim the sun? Aka chemtrails? It's a real thing. The debate is the effect on health, and fall out.

UK scientists to launch outdoor geoengineering experiments

Blocking sunlight could temporarily slow the climate crisis but the technologies remain highly controversial

www.theguardian.com

If you are still trying to figure out where you fit into the world as a man, I'm afraid I cannot help you.

I'm just curious as to what male tendencies are but try and project your sexual onto me as an insecurity so that I defend my masculinity so you didn't have to answer a legitimate question. I'm used to it.

 

[Xilnik]

Okay perhaps I misinterpreted it or my bias was taking over. I'll read it again and try to put that aside.

Appreciate it.

Hasn't the UK government discussed funding for research into stratospheric aerosol injection as an effort to dim the sun? Aka chemtrails? It's a real thing. The debate is the effect on health, and fall out.

UK scientists to launch outdoor geoengineering experiments

Blocking sunlight could temporarily slow the climate crisis but the technologies remain highly controversial

www.theguardian.com

The debate in RFK Jr.'s head is whether it's something that has been going on for the past decade or more here in the US. That's the concerning part to me.

I'm just curious as to what male tendencies are but try and project your sexual onto me as an insecurity so that I defend my masculinity so you didn't have to answer a legitimate question. I'm used to it.

Lighten up. It was a joke at your expense, but it wasn't meant to deflect. I was curious to see how you would respond before proceeding with a full explanation, though I did contemplate editing my post to explain instead. I was hoping you would respond honestly about how you see male vs female dynamics in our world, but you chose not to go into that much depth, which is fine. I'm happy to actually explain my stance anyway.

I wasn't thinking of it in terms of sexist terms but child psychology. How do boys and girls identify with other boys and girls at young ages? Typically, boys act like other boys in their classes. They also tend to emulate their fathers if their fathers are in their lives. Girls follow what other girls are doing in their classes and emulate their mothers if their mothers are in their lives.

That's all I was really referring to by displaying male traits. And yes, I'm aware of what people consider tomboys or sissies (are they still called sissies in today's society?). There's a bit of a difference between a girl who plays with boy's toys and dresses like a boy vs someone who acts like other boys or fathers too. Same thing with boys who play with girl's toys; you rarely see them dress like girls and act like their mothers unless they actually want to be girls. That behavior tends to be more frowned upon by peers, or at least it was when I was a boy. Cross dressing was more of an adult activity, and it was seen more within drag queen communities when I was growing up. The idea of changing sex didn't occur to me until I was in high school and heard about it happening in Trinidad, CO, within my home state.

 

[CLAX1911]

Appreciate it.


The debate in RFK Jr.'s head is whether it's something that has been going on for the past decade or more here in the US. That's the concerning part to me.

I know there were experiments involving this but I'm not sure if they are still conducted

Lighten up. It was a joke at your expense, but it wasn't meant to deflect. I was curious to see how you would respond before proceeding with a full explanation, though I did contemplate editing my post to explain instead. I was hoping you would respond honestly about how you see male vs female dynamics in our world, but you chose not to go into that much depth, which is fine. I'm happy to actually explain my stance anyway.

Sorry sometimes it's hard to pick up on that kind of humor in text format. Also I'm a gay man and this never was exactly gender conforming myself.

I wasn't thinking of it in terms of sexist terms but child psychology. How do boys and girls identify with other boys and girls at young ages? Typically, boys act like other boys in their classes. They also tend to emulate their fathers if their fathers are in their lives. Girls follow what other girls are doing in their classes and emulate their mothers if their mothers are in their lives.

Makes me wonder if all those tomboys I grew up with would be trans these days.

That's all I was really referring to by displaying male traits. And yes, I'm aware of what people consider tomboys or sissies (are they still called sissies in today's society?).

I'm not sure there is an official term. But I know what you mean.

There's a bit of a difference between a girl who plays with boy's toys and dresses like a boy vs someone who acts like other boys or fathers too. Same thing with boys who play with girl's toys; you rarely see them dress like girls and act like their mothers unless they actually want to be girls.

I'm not sure about that one

That behavior tends to be more frowned upon by peers, or at least it was when I was a boy. Cross dressing was more of an adult activity, and it was seen more within drag queen communities when I was growing up. The idea of changing sex didn't occur to me until I was in high school and heard about it happening in Trinidad, CO, within my home state.

I remember hearing mention of it in highschool but it wasn't very common and no students spoke about it. That was the 90s though and it was a different time.

 

[Xilnik]

I know there were experiments involving this but I'm not sure if they are still conducted

Sorry sometimes it's hard to pick up on that kind of humor in text format. Also I'm a gay man and this never was exactly gender conforming myself.

Makes me wonder if all those tomboys I grew up with would be trans these days.

I'm not sure there is an official term. But I know what you mean.

I'm not sure about that one

I remember hearing mention of it in highschool but it wasn't very common and no students spoke about it. That was the 90s though and it was a different time.

My sister was a tomboy, but she really loved makeup, earrings, etc. I consider that different from someone who truly identifies with other boys at a young age. Overall, I understand the arguments against someone permanently changing their body. It's not like there is an easy do-over for something like that, but most do so knowing it's what they really want to do and have no real regrets based on personal experience and scientific reports.

To me, this is not that different from being pro-choice. Respect people's right to do with their bodies as they please. And as far as calling them the pronoun they choose, that also comes down to respect. It doesn't hurt me any to call them by the term they feel they are, and it affirms their choice for them. I don't feel like I'm being forced or made to do it. I see it as a net positive. Our world needs more of those.

 

[CLAX1911]

My sister was a tomboy, but she really loved makeup, earrings, etc. I consider that different from someone who truly identifies with other boys at a young age. Overall, I understand the arguments against someone permanently changing their body. It's not like there is an easy do-over for something like that, but most do so knowing it's what they really want to do and have no real regrets based on personal experience and scientific reports.

Yeah I also agree trans people that don't regret transition exist. But I don't think this is the only way.

To me, this is not that different from being pro-choice. Respect people's right to do with their bodies as they please. And as far as calling them the pronoun they choose, that also comes down to respect. It doesn't hurt me any to call them by the term they feel they are, and it affirms their choice for them. I don't feel like I'm being forced or made to do it. I see it as a net positive. Our world needs more of those.

I have no issue referring to a male as she or a female as he. The they them thing that will never be natural to me.