Trump is Destroying the Western Alliance

[Somerville]

Is he doing it on purpose or is Trump this clueless? This linked article is a year old but it seems even more relevant today.

Trump Is Fulfilling Russia’s Dream of Splitting the Western Alliance

One of Russia’s principal foreign-policy goals for decades has been to split the United States from its allies. Whether by accident or by design, President Trump appears intent on bringing that dream to fruition.
(. . .)

Western trade partners have attempted to reason with Trump’s demands, but the problem is that the basis for his beliefs and actions is entirely fantastical. If your neighbor is irate that you let your dog run loose in his yard, you can pacify him. If he’s irate that you are reading his thoughts through his tinfoil hat, there’s nothing you can do except disengage. And that is what they are doing. French President Emmanuel Macron threatened to sign a six-country agreement omitting the U.S. altogether. Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau vowed “to defend our industries and our workers” and “show the U.S. president that his unacceptable actions are hurting his own citizens.”

But trade is merely a symptom of a larger rearrangement of American alienation from its partners. The West has attempted to prevail upon Trump to retain, in some form, a series of agreements he inherited: the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the Paris climate agreement, and the Iran nuclear deal. In every instance, the negotiations foundered on Trump’s allergy to compromise and immunity to reason. You can’t negotiate a climate plan with a person who considers climate science a Chinese hoax any more than you can negotiate a trade deal with somebody who believes Canada must be punished for the War of 1812.

 

[Mr Person]

While also stopping all efforts to beef up election security despite knowing that Russia fully intends to interfere in our elections on his behalf, and despite knowing that Russia did so in 2016, and tried again in 2018.

Add it all up and it's about as close you can get to treason without falling within its four corners.





Remember when Russia was our "greatest geopolitical foe" and Obama was a horrible limp-wristed liberal for not standing up to it? Trumpists seem to have "forgotten." Wait, who am I kidding? They proudly lie about the issue. Russia helped their guy so Russia is their friend all of a sudden and ....who was Obama anyway? I've never heard of an Obama....

 

[Greenbeard]

Enabled all the way by Moscow Mitch. Quite a duo.

 

[trixare4kids]

Is he doing it on purpose or is Trump this clueless? This linked article is a year old but it seems even more relevant today.

Have you even bothered to do some research on the magazine author of the above political hit piece?
He's a liberal hack.
Jonathan Chait Author Archive

Do some research! Chait was a former writer, and editor of these two progressive, left-wing publications.
The American Prospect and The New Republic

 

[Somerville]

Have you even bothered to do some research on the magazine author of the above political hit piece?
He's a liberal hack.
Jonathan Chait Author Archive

So a "liberal hack" reporting on the deeds of the President is not to be believed.

Did he or did he not pull the US out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership? Has it benefitted China?

Did he or did he not pull the US out of the Paris Climate Agreement? Has it benefitted the US?

Did he or did he not pull the US out of the Iran nuclear pact? Has Iran now said they will begin enriching uranium?

Has he or has he not been pushing England's Boris Johnson to exit the European Union?

Has he or has he not threatened to pull the US out of NATO?

Has he or has he not removed sanctions on Russia supported by the European Union?

Doesn't matter if a reporter is a liberal hack or a conservative idol, as long as they are reporting the facts. Unfortunately, too many refuse to remove their Goggle of Truth when a political opponent makes a statement supported by real facts.

 

[AmNat]

Is he doing it on purpose or is Trump this clueless? This linked article is a year old but it seems even more relevant today.

If the other members of NATO don't want to trade with us on acceptable terms, then we should just withdraw from it, and stop spending so much money on a project from which we get nothing. Trump's only failing in this matter has been refusing to use the threat of a NATO withdrawal as a negotiating tool.

 

[Greenbeard]

If the other members of NATO don't want to trade with us on acceptable terms, then we should just withdraw from it, and stop spending so much money on a project from which we get nothing. Trump's only failing in this matter has been refusing to use the threat of a NATO withdrawal as a negotiating tool.

NATO isn't a trade alliance.

 

[iguanaman]

If the other members of NATO don't want to trade with us on acceptable terms, then we should just withdraw from it, and stop spending so much money on a project from which we get nothing. Trump's only failing in this matter has been refusing to use the threat of a NATO withdrawal as a negotiating tool.

So it was Putin that came to our aid after 911 and it was Russian troops that died fighting our wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? Your grasp of history must come from the Kremlin, Comrade.

As Robert Gates pointed out on 10 June 2011, in his "last policy speech" as U.S. Secretary of Defense, "more than 850 troops from non-U.S. NATO members have made the ultimate sacrifice in Afghanistan. For many allied nations these were the first military casualties they have taken since the end of the Second World War

Coalition casualties in Afghanistan - Wikipedia

 

[noonereal]

Is he doing it on purpose or is Trump this clueless? This linked article is a year old but it seems even more relevant today.

His motivation puzzles me.

On the surface it certainly appears he is owned by Putin.

But Trump is a dangerous combination of insecure, unaware and delusional. As such, he may simply be unaware of the benefits these alliances have graced us with and too delusional to learn from others with experience and expertise.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Is he doing it on purpose or is Trump this clueless? This linked article is a year old but it seems even more relevant today.

Well, if the "West" wants us to stay in things they desire but many of us here don't, how is the fact that Trump is acting on his election promises and stated goals "destroying the western alliance?" :roll:

I did not support the Trans Pacific Partnership, with China involved. IMO it was like inviting a wolf in sheep's clothing inside a sheep pen, seemingly harmless but driven to eat all the other sheep up eventually.

I did not support the Paris Climate Agreement, as is seems to have depended mostly on US funding and action, as always.

I NEVER supported the Iran deal. They had no intention of doing anything to stop their development of Nuclear weapons, and their government has never stopped considering the USA their primary enemy. (Great Satan).

He has not "pushed Boris Johnson" to do anything. Didn't the UK have a REFERENDUM three years ago? Hasn't Parliament had time and more time to get a reasonable deal, and now those in power have refused to allow a no deal Brexit? That's not Trump's fault. Seems to me all Trump did was assure Mr. Johnson and the UK that the USA was there to turn to for trade and other support.

Yes, he threatened to pull out of NATO because most of the members have been refusing to live up to THEIR obligations to maintain a military force based on at least 2% of their GDP. They just expect US to do the protecting. We are still in, are we not?

I could go on but you get the drift.

 

[Cougarbear]

While also stopping all efforts to beef up election security despite knowing that Russia fully intends to interfere in our elections on his behalf, and despite knowing that Russia did so in 2016, and tried again in 2018.

Add it all up and it's about as close you can get to treason without falling within its four corners.





Remember when Russia was our "greatest geopolitical foe" and Obama was a horrible limp-wristed liberal for not standing up to it? Trumpists seem to have "forgotten." Wait, who am I kidding? They proudly lie about the issue. Russia helped their guy so Russia is their friend all of a sudden and ....who was Obama anyway? I've never heard of an Obama....

Trump isn't doing anything with Russia in mind. He's standing up to the socialist Europeans demanding the the U.S. be dealt with fairly. He doesn't care about Russia. Russia has nothing we need. But, he wants to fairly trade with Europe. He want's Europe to stop trading oil with Russia as well. Yet, liberals with Trump Derangement Syndrome refuse to accept this and just keep pounding away with illogical attacks on Trump.

 

[AmNat]

NATO isn't a trade alliance.

It's a free lunch for Europe and Canada.

So it was Putin that came to our aid after 911 and it was Russian troops that died fighting our wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? Your grasp of history must come from the Kremlin, Comrade.

[/B]

Coalition casualties in Afghanistan - Wikipedia

Neither of those wars actually benefited America.

 

[Cardinal]

If the other members of NATO don't want to trade with us on acceptable terms, then we should just withdraw from it, and stop spending so much money on a project from which we get nothing. Trump's only failing in this matter has been refusing to use the threat of a NATO withdrawal as a negotiating tool.

NATO isn't a trade alliance.

 

[SoCal]

His motivation puzzles me.

On the surface it certainly appears he is owned by Putin.

But Trump is a dangerous combination of insecure, unaware and delusional. As such, he may simply be unaware of the benefits these alliances have graced us with and too delusional to learn from others with experience and expertise.

His primary motivation is greed, not serving and making sacrifices for his country. As such, he'll gladly learn from the likes of Putin if it furthers his aims...

 

[iguanaman]

Trump isn't doing anything with Russia in mind. He's standing up to the socialist Europeans demanding the the U.S. be dealt with fairly. He doesn't care about Russia. Russia has nothing we need. But, he wants to fairly trade with Europe. He want's Europe to stop trading oil with Russia as well. Yet, liberals with Trump Derangement Syndrome refuse to accept this and just keep pounding away with illogical attacks on Trump.

LOL Maybe Trump should stop buying oil and gasoline from Russia if he wants Europe to. Trump is rewarding Putin for taking over Venezuela and keeping Maduro in power as his puppet. We have also had a $10 billion+ trade imbalance with Russia that Trump never mentions. This year it will be even higher. You need to stop getting your news from the Kremlin. They are liars that want to destroy us.

Russia’s oil and petroleum sales to the United States have reached six-year highs, according to U.S. Energy Information Administration data analyzed by the RBC news website.

The U.S. imported 61.75 million barrels of crude oil and petroleum products from Russia in January-May 2019, up from 56 million barrels in January-May 2018. Russia’s Federal Customs Service, according to RBC, says oil sales to the U.S. have reached nearly $3 billion during the first half this year versus $1.6 billion over the same period last year.

Russian Oil Exports to U.S. Soar to 6-Year High - The Moscow Times

 

[iguanaman]

It's a free lunch for Europe and Canada.



Neither of those wars actually benefited America.

You are also not benefiting America by spreading Russian propaganda.

 

[Mr Person]

While also stopping all efforts to beef up election security despite knowing that Russia fully intends to interfere in our elections on his behalf, and despite knowing that Russia did so in 2016, and tried again in 2018.

Add it all up and it's about as close you can get to treason without falling within its four corners.





Remember when Russia was our "greatest geopolitical foe" and Obama was a horrible limp-wristed liberal for not standing up to it? Trumpists seem to have "forgotten." Wait, who am I kidding? They proudly lie about the issue. Russia helped their guy so Russia is their friend all of a sudden and ....who was Obama anyway? I've never heard of an Obama....

Trump isn't doing anything with Russia in mind. He's standing up to the socialist Europeans demanding the the U.S. be dealt with fairly. He doesn't care about Russia. Russia has nothing we need. But, he wants to fairly trade with Europe. He want's Europe to stop trading oil with Russia as well. Yet, liberals with Trump Derangement Syndrome refuse to accept this and just keep pounding away with illogical attacks on Trump.

If I want to hear that kind of stupidly dishonest bull****, I'd tune into Hannity.





(Noted: Cougarbear does not respond to factual points, rather spews propaganda. Start scrolling past?)

 

[Cougarbear]

LOL Maybe Trump should stop buying oil and gasoline from Russia if he wants Europe to. Trump is rewarding Putin for taking over Venezuela and keeping Maduro in power as his puppet. We have also had a $10 billion+ trade imbalance with Russia that Trump never mentions. This year it will be even higher. You need to stop getting your news from the Kremlin. They are liars that want to destroy us.

Russian Oil Exports to U.S. Soar to 6-Year High - The Moscow Times

So, you get your news from "The Moscow Times?" That's from the Kremlin. And, you complain that's where I'm getting my news from? Oh, the hypocrisy of the leftist. We don't need their oil. We have plenty ourselves and our oil is better than their oil.

 

[OscarLevant]

Have you even bothered to do some research on the magazine author of the above political hit piece?
He's a liberal hack.
Jonathan Chait Author Archive

Do some research! Chait was a former writer, and editor of these two progressive, left-wing publications.
The American Prospect and The New Republic

A hack is anyone you disagree with. How about refuting the message? Ah, that would take some thought and effort.

 

[trixare4kids]

A hack is anyone you disagree with. How about refuting the message? Ah, that would take some thought and effort.

I already refuted the source above... what message?
The hack's message? What would be the point?

 

[Cougarbear]

If I want to hear that kind of stupidly dishonest bull****, I'd tune into Hannity.





(Noted: Cougarbear does not respond to factual points, rather spews propaganda. Start scrolling past?)

You don't have to. Just listen to yourself

 

[iguanaman]

So, you get your news from "The Moscow Times?" That's from the Kremlin. And, you complain that's where I'm getting my news from? Oh, the hypocrisy of the leftist. We don't need their oil. We have plenty ourselves and our oil is better than their oil.

LOL I see. You have no problem when Trump takes Putins word over our experts. But Russia must be lying about their exports so you want another link? No problem FYI we had a $10 billion trade deficit with Russia last year due to oil imports.

Russian exports of oil and oil products to the United States surged in the last week of February to their highest level since 2011, with Russia taking advantage of the Venezuelan collapse,

Russian news outlet RBC reports, quoting investment bank Caracas Capital Markets as saying in a note to clients.
At least nine tankers delivered 3.19 million barrels of oil and oil products of Russian origin to U.S. ports in the week February 23 to March 1, according to Caracas Capital Markets, which specializes in Venezuela. These 3.19 million barrels is the largest volume of Russian oil deliveries “we have seen since 2011,” Russ Dallen, Caracas Capital Markets Managing Partner, wrote in the note, as carried by RBC.

Russia’s Oil Product Exports To U.S. Surge Amid Sanctions On Venezuela | OilPrice.com

U.S. sanctions against Venezuela and Iran have had an unplanned side effect: they have increased exports of heavy, sour crude from Russia, Bloomberg reports, adding that calculations have shown Russian oil companies raked in an additional US$905 million at least from these sales between November and July.

The Urals blend is the big winner of the U.S. sanctions, according to Bloomberg’s calculations. Venezuela is one of the main global suppliers of heavy crude, but U.S. sanctions have shrunk its exports significantly. Iran also produces heavy, which has now become less readily available to foreign buyers, freeing up space for Urals. Finally, OPEC members prioritized cutting their heavy crude production as part of their December 2018 agreement and that added to the strain on heavy crude supply.

U.S. Sanctions Backfire, Lead To Boost In Russian Oil Exports | OilPrice.com

 

[Mr Person]

You don't have to. Just listen to yourself

Everything I said was true:

While also stopping all efforts to beef up election security despite knowing that Russia fully intends to interfere in our elections on his behalf, and despite knowing that Russia did so in 2016, and tried again in 2018.

Add it all up and it's about as close you can get to treason without falling within its four corners.

Remember when Russia was our "greatest geopolitical foe" and Obama was a horrible limp-wristed liberal for not standing up to it? Trumpists seem to have "forgotten." Wait, who am I kidding? They proudly lie about the issue. Russia helped their guy so Russia is their friend all of a sudden and ....who was Obama anyway? I've never heard of an Obama....

<blue from this>

I and so very many other people backed each and every factual assertion about the past up in link after link here. If you're the kind of poster I think you are, you'll demand the links on a correct bet that someone with as many posts as me does not keep a database of his posts like some kind of weirdo. And if I do dig up the links, you'll either (1) jump thread, or (2) announce that they aren't "proof" without reading them and throw something trollish in on the tail end, then run away.

So I'm not gonna. The only people I could possibly care to speak to know that the factual statements are true and the only thing possibly up for argument is motive. And as for motive, well, I haven't heard a damn thing from you or anyone about how Trump and the GOP could possibly have done all this unless they wanted Russia to interfere on Trump's behalf in 2020.........

.....all without proof of an "explicit agreement", meaning they run no legal risk while getting the boon. After all, Russia wants it too. We've gone from U.S. presidents being cautious to avoid hot war while tough enough to do damage (aka, Obama sanctions causing a Russian financial crisis and bringing it to its knees, and if you don't know what that statement is about you have no business typing words on the internet) to Trump, who licks Putin's ass at every turn.





Does it feel good to support a borderline treasonous president who licks your enemy's ass? Good? Awful, but worth it to "own the libs"? No no, don't answer. Just think it to yourself.

(That's assuming you lot weren't just lying when you attacked Obama for being "weak on Russia" and thinking they were a threat. Maybe you were lying then and we should trust you-know. How can the victim of gaslighting be certain without video evidence?).