Trump considering having US CONSUMER pay for WALL

Visbek · Jan 27, 2017

American said:
So in the early part of our history, prior to the government stealing....uh er taxing it out of our paychecks, we funded the govt with tariffs. Both parties favored tariffs back then.

First of all, the parties were very different "back then."

Second, there was a great deal of conflict over tariffs in the 19th century. Southerners referred to the 1828 tariffs as the "Tariff of Abominations," because the South was importing far more goods than the North, and was thus hit harder by it. South Carolina flatly rejected the 1832 tariff law, and invented the idea of "nullification" as part of its protest against it; Jackson had to threaten SC with 100,000 troops to force it to comply.

Tariffs have been a very contentious and divisive issue for most of US history.

Mac77 · Jan 27, 2017

Socrates1 said:
Cheaper than supporting 21 million illegals , cheaper than providing schooling and having to have Spanish teachers in every classroom because they are too dam lazy to learn our language . Cheaper then watching hundreds of hospitals closing because they can longer provide FREE care to these ILLEGALS . Cheaper than putting up with all the third World diseases they enter OUR Country with . :shock:

IN 1986 there were only 3 million illegal aliens in the US

Now there are up to 30 million

in 20 more years that number could be 100 million if we don't do something

George50 · Jan 27, 2017

Lord of Planar said:
If we tax imports more, it will be profitable to bring jobs back to the states.

I will extrapolate and assume you want all our jobs to disappear, and all our good made by foreign labor so they are cheaper.

But then how many jobless people can buy the goods then?

We have 12 million manufacturing jobs now. We've lost 7 million since 1979, but we make twice as much stuff. How can this be? Only 1 million jobs went out of the country and 6 million were lost to automation. Of those 1 million we lost, many are being automated in other countries. We will get some manufacturing back because with increasing automation labor is a smaller and smaller part of the cost and shipping and other factors incurred when manufacturing overseas are increasing the cost of producing abroad. Manufacturing jobs will continue to decline, a new factory today employs 1/10 of what it would have 30 years ago. The 12 million will continue to go down, we won't get all of the 1 million back and the 6 million obviously will not be un-automated! If we want more jobs, manufacturing is not the place to look.

Mexico taking US factory jobs? Blame robots instead | Fox Business

Praxas · Jan 27, 2017

Mac77 said:
What lie?

If trump concedes a position that you did not want him to take anyway that is a plus for you

We want to solve the border problem the best way possible not just poke a stick in the eye of liberals and mexicans

so he conceded that his inauguration was less people attended than Obama's and that millions of illegals voted? I must have missed that, please point to it. How about the lie of him releaseing his tax records? Nope, you guys excuse any lie from Trump .

Praxas · Jan 27, 2017

Socrates1 said:
Round them up and send them packing NEVER being allowed back !

Good luck with that. Until then, not only is your figure busted, but so is the fact you don't take into maintaining of the wall either or the expired visas.

PeteEU · Jan 27, 2017

Socrates1 said:
Cheaper than supporting 21 million illegals , cheaper than providing schooling and having to have Spanish teachers in every classroom because they are too dam lazy to learn our language . Cheaper then watching hundreds of hospitals closing because they can longer provide FREE care to these ILLEGALS . Cheaper than putting up with all the third World diseases they enter OUR Country with . :shock:

You really dont know much about your own country eh? You do know that most illegals pay taxes, and hence their way when it comes to schools and healthcare? They are also younger, which means they dont need that much healthcare!! And Hospitals are closing because of your pathetically badly run private greedy healthcare system that inflates prices

Praxas · Jan 27, 2017

Mac77 said:
IN 1986 there were only 3 million illegal aliens in the US

Now there are up to 30 million

in 20 more years that number could be 100 million if we don't do something

Why stop at 100 million when you pull that number out of your ass, why not 300 million. :roll:

Socrates1 · Jan 27, 2017

Mac77 said:
IN 1986 there were only 3 million illegal aliens in the US

Now there are up to 30 million

in 20 more years that number could be 100 million if we don't do something

There could be 50 million by now , no one knows and liberals don't care .

<alt>doxygen · Jan 27, 2017

ocean515 said:
Not just financially, but with mandatory jail time for all employers convicted of hiring illegal aliens. Asset forfeiture, etc.. I'm all for absolute draconian punishment.

Think of all the jobs that would open up to legal citizens in construction and other trades.

I have been harping on that point for years. That would quickly shrink the magnet that draws them. I don't know if I agree with draconian punishment (imo it should be proportionate) but the general point? +1

Eric7216 · Jan 27, 2017

Well, it is only a tax on those who buy goods from Mexico. US consumers who support the wall would logically also refuse to buy Mexican goods so it is not a tax on them.

Socrates1 · Jan 27, 2017

Praxas said:
Good luck with that. Until then, not only is your figure busted, but so is the fact you don't take into maintaining of the wall either or the expired visas.

And you don't take into account maintaining and supporting 20 million freeloaders .

Socrates1 · Jan 27, 2017

PeteEU said:
You really dont know much about your own country eh? You do know that most illegals pay taxes, and hence their way when it comes to schools and healthcare? They are also younger, which means they dont need that much healthcare!! And Hospitals are closing because of your pathetically badly run private greedy healthcare system that inflates prices

Stick with Denmark . :lol:

Praxas · Jan 27, 2017

Socrates1 said:
And you don't take into account maintaining and supporting 20 million freeloaders .

Those 20 million "freeloaders" (which that amount isn't even verified) are working, paying taxes on food, items, etc. You act as if they are just sitting down watching TV. I bet you've never met an illegal in your life.

PeteEU · Jan 27, 2017

Socrates1 said:
Stick with Denmark . :lol:

So you dont know how your own country works..

radcen · Jan 27, 2017

Mycroft said:
Prices would initially rise because of the 20% added cost. The cheaper sources would be cheaper than that 20% added cost and prices would then drop.

Now, I'm not saying prices would drop to the levels of before the tariff. They would drop from the tariff levels.

Ok, got'cha. Thanks for the clarification.

Mac77 · Jan 27, 2017

Praxas said:
Good luck with that. Until then, not only is your figure busted, but so is the fact you don't take into maintaining of the wall either or the expired visas.

I think any illegal that is deported should be denied a visa an never allowed to return

Erod · Jan 27, 2017

poweRob said:
When a liberal says get rid of free trade and such things you guys used to scream heresy and how protectionism is terrible. Then go on and on about how we should let the free markets world wide decide everything for us. Funny how quickly people change their ideals when they opt to follow a demogogue.

I don't want a tariff. I was just pointing out the flip side.

Folks need to step back and look at the game being played. Trump is not interested in a tariff. He doesn't expect Mexico to pay for the wall with a check. He's interested in a NAFTA agreement that doesn't create a $60 billion trade deficit for the U.S. like it currently does now. (We had a trade surplus with Mexico prior to NAFTA.)

Renegotiate NAFTA so that it's more equitable, and effectively, that pays for the wall, and more importantly, it pays for the additional border security operations that need to be implemented.

radcen · Jan 27, 2017

Mycroft said:
As I said, it is their citizens coming here illegally. They are also allowing people from other countries to transit their country on the way here. This makes Mexico partially responsible for the effects on our country from illegal immigration. Also, Mexico has taken steps to make it easier for their people and for others to illegally immigrate to the US.

They not only need to stop their actions, their inactions are contributing to the instability between our countries.

btw, what is the significance of "emigration"...as opposed to the usual term of immigration?

I've had experiences in the past where some people confuse emigration and immigration because they sound so similar. I just wanted to make sure my point was clear that I was talking about outward bound migration.

Anyway, I agree people from Central America moving through their country is an issue, but I don't see how their own people wanting to leave makes them responsible for making them stay.

George50 · Jan 27, 2017

Lord of Planar said:
We have a 35% corporate federal tax rate plus state taxes, which we already pay for in the product purchasing cost. Why not extend taxes to imports?

Why does the left complain about a tax that affects imports, but want higher taxes on US products by U corporations?

You guys are crazy! Al;ways complaining that corporations don't pay their fair share...

Is there some type of magic where a higher tariff increases a products cost, but increasing corporate taxes don't?

Think people think!

I don't know why people would want corporations to pay more than 35% tax sounds too high to me. However, I do think that we should not have some companies paying little or nothing and others paying 35% based in large part the amount of money they and their associations (another word for unions) donate to politicians. I thought the right always wanted lower taxes, actually they did until these import tax ideas were proposed.

radcen · Jan 27, 2017

gdgyva said:
You are missing a fourth option, and the one I believe will happen

The units will continue to be built....with slightly different specs, and shipped to other countries, not the US

The cars in the US have some of the toughest safety standards in the world....easy to retool, and redo the few models, and then sell them elsewhere instead of scrapping the entire plant

Sales will of course go down, and workers there will lose hours, pay, etc

But I believe that is what will occur

And for like the Dodge Ram trucks....those will now be built elsewhere....probably back here in the US

It is the only real model with huge sales implications on the stuff I saw

It will hurt Chrysler for awhile....but ford, GM, and others have got to be loving it

The truck market just got easier for them

If there were a market for those vehicles they would already be being shipped and sold there.

poweRob · Jan 27, 2017

Erod said:
I don't want a tariff. I was just pointing out the flip side.

Folks need to step back and look at the game being played. Trump is not interested in a tariff. He doesn't expect Mexico to pay for the wall with a check. He's interested in a NAFTA agreement that doesn't create a $60 billion trade deficit for the U.S. like it currently does now. (We had a trade surplus with Mexico prior to NAFTA.)

Renegotiate NAFTA so that it's more equitable, and effectively, that pays for the wall, and more importantly, it pays for the additional border security operations that need to be implemented.

Trump isn't interested in tariffs you say?

Trump team floats a 10% tariff on imports
December 22, 2016

There are no long-held policies that matter more to trumps followers that are more important than following trump no matter what.

brothern · Jan 27, 2017

Eric7216 said:
Well, it is only a tax on those who buy goods from Mexico. US consumers who support the wall would logically also refuse to buy Mexican goods so it is not a tax on them.

Erod said:
C'mon, man. Learn a thing or two about negotiation.Trump has all the power here. Mexico is completely reliant on the US in infinite ways. Give it time. They'll fold in the end through the new NAFTA, whatever that looks like.

NonoBadDog said:
Pretty cool, isn't it? The president of Mexico is between a rock and a hard spot.

Umm. Hello?! The USA imports 800,000 barrels per day of petroleum from Mexico or 10% of our total imports.

Lord of Planar · Jan 27, 2017

PeteEU said:
1) It wont cost 13 billion. Try 20+ billion.
2) It has to be maintained and to be really effective manned. This means yearly costs... from several billion to 10s of billions.
3) Proof that the US spends 125 billion a year on illegals..

Oh will the wall stop illegals? Nope.

I believe the wall will help, but not as much as anyone will admit. Other laws will have to go into effect, and then of course, politics as usual... the wall will get credit.

Though I believe the wall is unnecessary, what a symbol if we actually do it!

Unlike the Berlin Wall, it isn't to keep people in. It's to make it harder for foreign invaders to enter our country.

Mac77 · Jan 27, 2017

Praxas said:
Why stop at 100 million when you pull that number out of your ass, why not 300 million. :roll:

because 100 million is a serious estimate

300 million is not

Praxas · Jan 27, 2017

Mac77 said:
because 100 million is a serious estimate

300 million is not

No it isn't a serious estimate. It's a number you guys pull from your asses and nothing more.

Trump considering having US CONSUMER pay for WALL

Visbek

Stuck In The Circle

Mac77

George50

Praxas

Praxas

PeteEU

Praxas

Socrates1

<alt>doxygen

"I want MY WALL!"

Eric7216

Socrates1

Socrates1

Praxas

PeteEU

radcen

Phonetic Mnemonic ©

Mac77

Erod

radcen

Phonetic Mnemonic ©

George50

radcen

Phonetic Mnemonic ©

poweRob

USMC 1988-1996

brothern

Lord of Planar

Mac77

Praxas

Trump considering having US CONSUMER pay for WALL

Stuck In The Circle

"I want MY WALL!"

Phonetic Mnemonic ©

Phonetic Mnemonic ©

Phonetic Mnemonic ©

USMC 1988-1996

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency