Trump and tax returns, part 2

If, at the very beginning, Trump had said, "I will not release my tax returns. That is my private business and I intend to keep it that way.", instead of placing all sorts of juvenile and ever-changing and nebulous conditions on their release, do you believe it would still be a big issue today?

I believe any controversy would have died down by now. Instead, it keeps getting bigger. Really, it's Trump himself that has turned it into the issue that it is.

Of course it would still be a big issue because the highly partisan/biased media is doing everything they can to stop Trump.
They have chosen sides and support Crooked Hillary. The "media" is just an extension of the Hillary campaign.
People know what they (media) are doing so they don't really care what they have to say about Trump.
All this does is feed into Trump's the system is rigged scenario.
Wild allegation's from the NYT................ Who cares?

Yes.

..

Of course it would have.

radcen said:

If, at the very beginning, Trump had said, "I will not release my tax returns. That is my private business and I intend to keep it that way.", instead of placing all sorts of juvenile and ever-changing and nebulous conditions on their release, do you believe it would still be a big issue today?

I believe any controversy would have died down by now. Instead, it keeps getting bigger. Really, it's Trump himself that has turned it into the issue that it is.

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I don't think saying No would have caused the issue to die down.

Hillary's MSM partners are spending millions on opposition research, employing hundreds of people to dig into every nook and cranny. Saying no would not have had any impact on the effort.

There is no reason for any major party candidate not to release their tax returns unless they are hiding something. So yes it would still be an issue.

As to the whiny babies claiming the media has it in for Trump. Trump's problem is Trump. The guy is a walking personality disorder, a bigot, a pathological liar, a sexist, and as ignorant as one could possibly be about the job he is running for. He has gotten away with near countless crap that would sink any other campaign. So take a bit of personal responsibility and blame your crazy candidate, not everyone else.

ocean515 said:

I don't think saying No would have caused the issue to die down.

Hillary's MSM partners are spending millions on opposition research, employing hundreds of people to dig into every nook and cranny. Saying no would not have had any impact on the effort.

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The opposition, in this case Hillary and the Dems, would still look for something to exploit, absolutely. But, barring finding something, I believe the issue would die down with the general populace.

SouthernDemocrat said:

There is no reason for any major party candidate not to release their tax returns unless they are hiding something. So yes it would still be an issue.

As to the whiny babies claiming the media has it in for Trump. Trump's problem is Trump. The guy is a walking personality disorder, a bigot, a pathological liar, a sexist, and as ignorant as one could possibly be about the job he is running for. He has gotten away with near countless crap that would sink any other campaign. So take a bit of personal responsibility and blame your crazy candidate, not everyone else.

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Disagree, mostly. Actually, there is no reason TO release one's personal tax returns. Nixon had his specific reasons, but most don't fall into that type of scenario.

As a general rule I categorically reject the "something to hide" mindset (on most any issue, not just this), but in this specific case re Trump I believe that he has ham-handed the issue to such a degree that I am starting to wonder that myself.

Hillary's The Clintons tax returns are Trubo Tax level returns.

Trump is strictly private sector, and we all know how democrats love private business. They would challenge every deduction and every write off and every expense on every MSM station in the country from 8 AM to Midnight. Hillary even gave him crap over not paying taxes he didn't owe. Who else pays taxes they don't owe?

That is why we have such a difficult time getting good candidates. Everyone knows about the Clinton Foundation, the MSM won't touch it because it is a political "farm team" where they may work someday.

The Clintons are filing a $5 million income on form 1040, while 3/4 billion is sitting on the shelf next to her as if it doesn't exist.

It would not be fair. If the FBI can't investigate it, then the IRS sure can't either.

SouthernDemocrat said:

There is no reason for any major party candidate not to release their tax returns unless they are hiding something. So yes it would still be an issue.

As to the whiny babies claiming the media has it in for Trump. Trump's problem is Trump. The guy is a walking personality disorder, a bigot, a pathological liar, a sexist, and as ignorant as one could possibly be about the job he is running for. He has gotten away with near countless crap that would sink any other campaign. So take a bit of personal responsibility and blame your crazy candidate, not everyone else.

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Unless you're under audit and your attorneys are telling you not to.

Perhaps for this reason, seems reasonable to me and why his attorneys are saying don't.

But there is another, less obvious risk of disclosure, according to Michel. “He knows that if he discloses his tax returns, there will be thousands of tax professionals in this country going over them with a fine-tooth comb,” he said. “And, in the public discussion of the returns, there may be issues in his audit that might not yet have arisen, and the I.R.S. hasn’t found them. The auditing agent may get the idea to ask about something he hasn’t thought about.

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Donald Trump’s Tax-Return Dodge - The New Yorker

Ordinary people are not sophisticated enough to understand business tax returns prepared under today's federal tax laws. Trump probably uses a large CPA firm with expertise in construction law.

You write losses off against income. How could you possibly survive if you lost 500 million on a project and claimed it as income? You know he (and everyone else) lost their ass in New Jersey.

It's like saying getting welfare is a loophole.

chuckiechan said:

Hillary's The Clintons tax returns are Trubo Tax level returns.

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And you know this how?

Trump is strictly private sector...

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The Presidency is a publicly held office.

... and we all know how democrats love private business.

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What's that even mean?

They would challenge every deduction and every write off and every expense on every MSM station in the country from 8 AM to Midnight.

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In other words, Trump shouldn't be scrutinized like every single POTUS candidate since 1980 because why?

Hillary even gave him crap over not paying taxes he didn't owe. Who else pays taxes they don't owe?

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What nerve she has, attacking a poor defenseless billionaire who's bankruptcies have made other people foot the bills for his bad decisions. Maybe Sean Hannity was able to soothe him with a warm glass of milk and a bedtime story.

Everyone knows about the Clinton Foundation, the MSM won't touch it because it is a political "farm team" where they may work someday.

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So if the Clinton Foundation is doing illegal things, then why hasn't the GOP started a Benghazi-like investigation into it? That should tell you everything you need to know. They've been after her for 25 years, regardless of how lame it's been (and it's all been lame), but they've just overlooked all this obvious illegal activity of her charity organization? Maybe she should used money from it to buy things for herself. Then they'd have something.

The Clintons are filing a $5 million income on form 1040, while 3/4 billion is sitting on the shelf next to her as if it doesn't exist.

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Trump is a coke-addicted child rapist.

It would not be fair. If the FBI can't investigate it, then the IRS sure can't either.

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Investigate what?

Trump said he was going to release his taxes initially because he didn't think he'd get this far. It was just another publicity stunt for him. Then it spun out of control and suddenly he realized that if people gained insight into how he does business, it might ruin his brand. To think he has nothing to hide is willfully naive. Birthers believe Obama is from Kenya even though it's always been obviously untrue, yet they're willing to believe Trump has nothing to hide when he won't release his taxes. That makes sense; just not on this planet.

He made it impossible for himself not to release his tax returns, since the public needs to double-check everything he brags about (the amount of his wealth, his business acumen and what not). Everything is in his tax returns! the amount of federal taxes he pays is important but not the whole story.
And because he has been caught lying or deceiving 70% of the time, it makes it all the more important for the people to see for themselves if this guy is really worth it or a big con artist peddling snake oil to the whole country!

I answered you in Bold for convenience...

Opopanax said:

And you know this how?

I went through them on line.

The Presidency is a publicly held office.

Trump earns a living in the private sector by building things and is subject to US tax law with all it's good things and bad.

What's that even mean?

Hillary in the debate was chiding him for not paying taxes he did not owe. Who does that?

In other words, Trump shouldn't be scrutinized like every single POTUS candidate since 1980 because why?

Because every tax accountant professional and amateur will be on the MSM arguing Trump violated this or that, and there is no one from the CPA firm that prepared the taxes to argue their position. Again, it's the tax code, not Trump. But who in the MSM will call for tax reform when their job is to demonize Trump?


What nerve she has, attacking a poor defenseless billionaire who's bankruptcies have made other people foot the bills for his bad decisions. Maybe Sean Hannity was able to soothe him with a warm glass of milk and a bedtime story.

Have you ever experienced a construction bankruptcy? I'll bet the bank took it over, and they "quit" all claims, and voided all contracts. The project shuts down, and yes, some people get screwed. There is always risk in trying to make money in construction.

So if the Clinton Foundation is doing illegal things, then why hasn't the GOP started a Benghazi-like investigation into it? That should tell you everything you need to know. They've been after her for 25 years, regardless of how lame it's been (and it's all been lame), but they've just overlooked all this obvious illegal activity of her charity organization? Maybe she should used money from it to buy things for herself. Then they'd have something.

How? If the FBI won't investigate, the IRS sure as hell won't, and there isn't all that much you can get from a private foundation. They are above the law and vetted by the FBI and approved by DoJ to be so.


Trump is a coke-addicted child rapist.

You're probably are too, and you are projecting yourself into the discussion.

Investigate what?

Trump said he was going to release his taxes initially because he didn't think he'd get this far. It was just another publicity stunt for him. Then it spun out of control and suddenly he realized that if people gained insight into how he does business, it might ruin his brand. To think he has nothing to hide is willfully naive. Birthers believe Obama is from Kenya even though it's always been obviously untrue, yet they're willing to believe Trump has nothing to hide when he won't release his taxes. That makes sense; just not on this planet.

again:
Because every tax accountant professional and amateur will be on the MSM arguing Trump violated this or that, and there is no one from the CPA firm that prepared the taxes to argue their position. Again, it's the tax code, not Trump. But who in the MSM will call for tax reform when their job is to demonize Trump?

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You make a great argument for Trumps changes to the tax code. You should vote for him.

chuckiechan said:

Hillary's The Clintons tax returns are Trubo Tax level returns.

Trump is strictly private sector, and we all know how democrats love private business. They would challenge every deduction and every write off and every expense on every MSM station in the country from 8 AM to Midnight. Hillary even gave him crap over not paying taxes he didn't owe. Who else pays taxes they don't owe?

That is why we have such a difficult time getting good candidates. Everyone knows about the Clinton Foundation, the MSM won't touch it because it is a political "farm team" where they may work someday.

The Clintons are filing a $5 million income on form 1040, while 3/4 billion is sitting on the shelf next to her as if it doesn't exist.

It would not be fair. If the FBI can't investigate it, then the IRS sure can't either.

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Yep. That was disingenuous, if not downright dumb, on her part. But, if what I have seen on places like Facebook and here at DP is an indicator, people are buying into it and repeating it.

"Trump didn't pay any taxes!!! :2mad: "

Well, hold on. I detest Trump, both as a candidate and as a person, but this may not be a fair criticism. As long as he was legal in paying zero taxes, he's fine and any criticism is unwarranted.

radcen said:

If, at the very beginning, Trump had said, "I will not release my tax returns. That is my private business and I intend to keep it that way.", instead of placing all sorts of juvenile and ever-changing and nebulous conditions on their release, do you believe it would still be a big issue today?

I believe any controversy would have died down by now. Instead, it keeps getting bigger. Really, it's Trump himself that has turned it into the issue that it is.

Click to expand...

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't care about how much or how little he paid in taxes. I care about what charities he donated to and which ones.

Derp said:

Unless you're under audit and your attorneys are telling you not to.

Perhaps for this reason, seems reasonable to me and why his attorneys are saying don't.



Donald Trump’s Tax-Return Dodge - The New Yorker

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Yes because obviously the IRS has no idea what is in his tax returns thus he can't release them and tip them off....:roll:

That is the most bull**** excuse he could possibly give for not releasing his returns. Moreover, even if we were to accept this, he still could release older ones.

Had he come clean from the get-go, I think it would have become yet another polarizing issue. The Left would have barraged him for being a tax dodger, and the Right would have tried to make him into a folk hero for not paying income taxes.

But now, now that the suspicions are confirmed about why Donald refused to release his tax returns, the questions against him are just going to pile. Any attempt to defend what he has done, both not releasing the tax returns nor actually paying taxes, are just going to dig his hole even deeper.

I think the rhetoric would have died down some if he said "I'm a private businessman and my financials remain private".

chuckiechan said:

I answered you in Bold for convenience...




You make a great argument for Trumps changes to the tax code. You should vote for him.

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Trump's changes to the tax code? His plan basically ensures that uber-wealthy people can avoid paying taxes just as he has.

tres borrachos said:

Trump's changes to the tax code? His plan basically ensures that uber-wealthy people can avoid paying taxes just as he has.

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Come on, you sound like a Democrat.

tres borrachos said:

Trump's changes to the tax code? His plan basically ensures that uber-wealthy people can avoid paying taxes just as he has.

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You must be denying that cutting corporate taxes will stimulate growth, and denying cutting taxes and repatriating overseas earnings to the USA will stimulate growth. Hillary plans to leave corporate taxes at 35%, and has made no mention of repatriation.

And you are arguing that cutting income tax brackets to these below is a bad thing:
Ordinary Income Rate Capital Gains Rate Single Filers
12% 0% $0 to $37,500
25% 15% $37,500 to $112,500
33% 20% $112,500+
The standard deduction would changed to $15K for singles, and $30K for households.

Hillary's plan is in the second link.

On the other hand, Clinton is not changing middle class taxes, but adding additional surcharges and taxes to the wealthy. She is jacking up estate taxes. Both are going after ("carried interest".)

The MSM always leads people to believe it's the Bill Gates, and the Rockefellers and the people like that passing money down through the generations, but the wealthy use foundations and other tax avoidance vehicles to avoid estate taxes. The one's who get nailed are sold proprietor businesses that have to be dissolved when the owner dies because he didn't listen to his tax accountant. Most people will alter their business category to simply trade more complicated tax accounting for freedom from estate taxes. Very few pay the estate tax anymore. It's a great sound bite, but it really doesn't produce any money unless your farm is sale able to a developer.

One of many:
How the Trump and Clinton Tax Plans Would Affect Americans - ABC News
Details and Analysis of Hillary Clinton?s Tax Proposals | Tax Foundation

The bottom line, is as usual, Hillary is status quo, attacking the top, ignoring the bottom. Trump is giving middle class taxpayers tax relief. Trump is cutting corporate taxes to stimulate the economy, because it will make the prices of US products more competitive. Corporate taxes are now 35% - the highest in the industrialized world, Trump will cut them to 15%. That is a 20% boost to cash flow. Or of you are a democrat, that's 20% of corporate income going to somewhere other than the government.

The economy we have now is squeezing out the middle class, and 20 million new naturalized citizens will squeeze them even harder. So we need to get the engine of capitalism working again. You can see from the brouhaha of Trump following tax law and pissing everyone off because he didn't pay enough taxes, is proof positive that our current tax code need overhaul, and Hillary's plan just complicates what we have now. Anyone who can't dodge her new taxes on the wealthy, needs a new tax accountant!

So it's a choice between the SOS with higher taxes on "the other guy", or a return to letting people spend more of their own money instead of Washington. I'll take my chances on economic growth vs and extension of Obamanomics.

tres borrachos said:

Trump's changes to the tax code? His plan basically ensures that uber-wealthy people can avoid paying taxes just as he has.

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Why do people believe that The Donald is truly interested in tax reform of the type that would make more people... people such as HIMSELF... pay more taxes? That notion flies in the face of who he is to his core.

I voted yes. Clinton and Donald seem to be identically bad in learning one important lesson: get your skeletons out of the closet now, or you're just going to have to deal with them when your nose is right up against election day.

Trump spent the last five years pulling every trick out of his bag to put off showing his tax returns, just building tension the whooooole time. Now election day is a month away and he's going to face the fallout, and I don't think he can run out the clock on this one.

American said:

Come on, you sound like a Democrat.

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No I don't. I'm not voting for the lying Democrat named Donald Trump.

tres borrachos said:

No I don't. I'm not voting for the lying Democrat named Donald Trump.

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Hahahahaha :kissy: