Trump’s Ukraine deal would plunge the world into war

"....rather than attempting to address the fundamental causes of the conflict – namely Russia’s unprovoked invasion of a sovereign state – Trump and his band of fellow travellers have reached the perverse conclusion that the best way to achieve peace in Ukraine is by rewarding Russian president Vladimir Putin for his blatant act of military aggression.

By far the most outrageous suggestion made in the proposal, which Trump has called his “final offer”, is that, in return for Russia halting hostilities along the current front lines, Washington would agree to de jure recognition of Russian control of Crimea. In addition, Russia will enjoy Washington’s de facto recognition of all the territory in eastern Ukraine that Moscow has captured, occupied and illegally annexed during the past decade or so. This concession not only rewards Putin’s decade-long military effort to destroy Ukraine’s independence; it is a flagrant breach of one of the key pillars of the post-war international order, which decrees that the sovereign integrity of any nation is inviolable.

If Russia is allowed to drive a coach and horses through such a fundamental premise of international law, then what is to stop China from seizing Taiwan, or Argentina the Falkland Islands? Far from being a prescription for future peace, Trump’s capitulation to Moscow lays the foundations for future conflict. ...More importantly, it will allow Russia’s battered and exhausted military to regroup and prepare to engage in future aggressive acts against Europe’s borders, safe in the knowledge that, even if such attacks occurred against Nato member states, he has nothing to fear in terms of an American military response.

Suddenly, Trump’s quip, made during the presidential election campaign, that he would encourage Russia to attack Nato allies in Europe who did not make adequate financial provision for their defence, deserves serious consideration by Washington’s erstwhile European allies."

Link

But it could pave the way for us taking Canada or Greenland, so there's that.

This is an interesting question, because the Crimea is a tricky situation to revisit even though Zelensky's mentioned this as part of the negotiations with Russia. The main problem here is it's been under Russian control for 11 years now and the population there favored a move back to Russia. I think seeking to get the Russians out of the Donbas is a better goal.

All in a day's work for lil' Donald and his flaccid band of cucked MAGAs.

Putin must be wondering how he got so lucky to have this bitch in the WH twice.

j brown's body said:

"....rather than attempting to address the fundamental causes of the conflict – namely Russia’s unprovoked invasion of a sovereign state – Trump and his band of fellow travellers have reached the perverse conclusion that the best way to achieve peace in Ukraine is by rewarding Russian president Vladimir Putin for his blatant act of military aggression.

By far the most outrageous suggestion made in the proposal, which Trump has called his “final offer”, is that, in return for Russia halting hostilities along the current front lines, Washington would agree to de jure recognition of Russian control of Crimea. In addition, Russia will enjoy Washington’s de facto recognition of all the territory in eastern Ukraine that Moscow has captured, occupied and illegally annexed during the past decade or so. This concession not only rewards Putin’s decade-long military effort to destroy Ukraine’s independence; it is a flagrant breach of one of the key pillars of the post-war international order, which decrees that the sovereign integrity of any nation is inviolable.

If Russia is allowed to drive a coach and horses through such a fundamental premise of international law, then what is to stop China from seizing Taiwan, or Argentina the Falkland Islands? Far from being a prescription for future peace, Trump’s capitulation to Moscow lays the foundations for future conflict. ...More importantly, it will allow Russia’s battered and exhausted military to regroup and prepare to engage in future aggressive acts against Europe’s borders, safe in the knowledge that, even if such attacks occurred against Nato member states, he has nothing to fear in terms of an American military response.

Suddenly, Trump’s quip, made during the presidential election campaign, that he would encourage Russia to attack Nato allies in Europe who did not make adequate financial provision for their defence, deserves serious consideration by Washington’s erstwhile European allies."

Link

But it could pave the way for us taking Canada or Greenland, so there's that.

Click to expand...

17 March 2014, Crimea's authorities declared independence and requested to join Russia. Russia formally incorporated Crimea on 18 March 2014 as the Republic of Crimea and federal city of Sevastopol. Following the annexation, Russia militarized the peninsula and warned against any outside intervention.

Russian has been in control of Crimea for 11 years. They took it during Obama's Presidency. What did Obama do about it, nothing. It continued for the next 8 years. Under Trump's first term there was no more gains of land and no fighting, then under Biden the fighting resumed with an attack on Ukraine that Biden did little to stop. He gave aid but limited aid because as he said, he feared escalation. He didn't even have talks with Russia, he thought not talking would help?

So what do you want, less fighting, less talking, some sort of end to the war and the death? Nobody wants an escalated war with Russia, just look at the Europeans response. They keep waiting on the U.S. to stop it. They could tell Putin stop or else. The else is debatable but they are not going to do that. They are going to wait on the U.S. to fix this just as they typically do.

So What's your suggestion as to how we stop it? What should Trump, the Europeans, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, do to bring this to a close?
Whats' your suggestions?

j brown's body said:

"....rather than attempting to address the fundamental causes of the conflict – namely Russia’s unprovoked invasion of a sovereign state – Trump and his band of fellow travellers have reached the perverse conclusion that the best way to achieve peace in Ukraine is by rewarding Russian president Vladimir Putin for his blatant act of military aggression.

By far the most outrageous suggestion made in the proposal, which Trump has called his “final offer”, is that, in return for Russia halting hostilities along the current front lines, Washington would agree to de jure recognition of Russian control of Crimea. In addition, Russia will enjoy Washington’s de facto recognition of all the territory in eastern Ukraine that Moscow has captured, occupied and illegally annexed during the past decade or so. This concession not only rewards Putin’s decade-long military effort to destroy Ukraine’s independence; it is a flagrant breach of one of the key pillars of the post-war international order, which decrees that the sovereign integrity of any nation is inviolable.

If Russia is allowed to drive a coach and horses through such a fundamental premise of international law, then what is to stop China from seizing Taiwan, or Argentina the Falkland Islands? Far from being a prescription for future peace, Trump’s capitulation to Moscow lays the foundations for future conflict. ...More importantly, it will allow Russia’s battered and exhausted military to regroup and prepare to engage in future aggressive acts against Europe’s borders, safe in the knowledge that, even if such attacks occurred against Nato member states, he has nothing to fear in terms of an American military response.

Suddenly, Trump’s quip, made during the presidential election campaign, that he would encourage Russia to attack Nato allies in Europe who did not make adequate financial provision for their defence, deserves serious consideration by Washington’s erstwhile European allies."

Link

But it could pave the way for us taking Canada or Greenland, so there's that.

Click to expand...

The endless fearmongering is just too absurd.

In case you hadn’t noticed, Argentina already tried to take the Falklands. They don’t seem to particularly care what Russia does or doesn’t do.

Refusing to recognize reality— that Ukraine seems deeply unlikely to get anywhere near Crimea any time soon— doesn’t make reality go away.

America has never, ever believed in the idea that “the sovereign integrity of any nation is inviolable” in the first place.

The usual fascist shtick of the enemy both being far too weak to pose a threat and a looming, unstoppable menace is on full display in the article though I see.

ElChupacabra said:

This is an interesting question, because the Crimea is a tricky situation to revisit even though Zelensky's mentioned this as part of the negotiations with Russia. The main problem here is it's been under Russian control for 11 years now and the population there favored a move back to Russia. I think seeking to get the Russians out of the Donbas is a better goal.

Click to expand...

Is it naive to think anyone, other than a few fools and privileged sycophants, would rather live under Putin's heel than with the EU?

j brown's body said:

"....rather than attempting to address the fundamental causes of the conflict – namely Russia’s unprovoked invasion of a sovereign state – Trump and his band of fellow travellers have reached the perverse conclusion that the best way to achieve peace in Ukraine is by rewarding Russian president Vladimir Putin for his blatant act of military aggression.

By far the most outrageous suggestion made in the proposal, which Trump has called his “final offer”, is that, in return for Russia halting hostilities along the current front lines, Washington would agree to de jure recognition of Russian control of Crimea. In addition, Russia will enjoy Washington’s de facto recognition of all the territory in eastern Ukraine that Moscow has captured, occupied and illegally annexed during the past decade or so. This concession not only rewards Putin’s decade-long military effort to destroy Ukraine’s independence; it is a flagrant breach of one of the key pillars of the post-war international order, which decrees that the sovereign integrity of any nation is inviolable.

If Russia is allowed to drive a coach and horses through such a fundamental premise of international law, then what is to stop China from seizing Taiwan, or Argentina the Falkland Islands? Far from being a prescription for future peace, Trump’s capitulation to Moscow lays the foundations for future conflict. ...More importantly, it will allow Russia’s battered and exhausted military to regroup and prepare to engage in future aggressive acts against Europe’s borders, safe in the knowledge that, even if such attacks occurred against Nato member states, he has nothing to fear in terms of an American military response.

Suddenly, Trump’s quip, made during the presidential election campaign, that he would encourage Russia to attack Nato allies in Europe who did not make adequate financial provision for their defence, deserves serious consideration by Washington’s erstwhile European allies."

Link

But it could pave the way for us taking Canada or Greenland, so there's that.

Click to expand...

In order for this to be true, the world would still need to look at America as the leader of the free world.

I'm not sure that's the case anymore. Time will tell, but regaining the world's trust is going to be difficult and expensive.

To the rest of us, this is just an asshole enabling another asshole. I would bet that the rest of the world is less and less into following suit. I don't think Trump's capitulation lays any sort of "foundation", it's just more trash on the ground, basically.

Lycanthrope said:

All in a day's work for lil' Donald and his flaccid band of cucked MAGAs.

Putin must be wondering how he got so lucky to have this bitch in the WH twice.

Click to expand...

LOL. And you think Biden was better? Putin didn't invade any land during Trump's first term. He did that first under Obama, and then again under Biden. So you should check who was who's bitch.

j brown's body said:

Is it naive to think anyone, other than a few fools and privileged sycophants, would rather live under Putin's heel than with the EU?

Wartime Imitation: Russia Holds Illegitimate Elections In Occupied Crimea

Amid its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Russia held another illegitimate election in occupied Crimea. The voting, which was denounced by Ukraine and not recognized by most countries of the world, will most likely solidify the local elites’ grip on power.

www.rferl.org

Click to expand...

The interesting thing about Ukraine is there divisions there are ethnically, with a large chunk of the eastern half more aligned with Russia than the EU; the western half is the opposite. Now whether or not everyone in Crimea is happy about the situations is a fair question, but we haven't had a counterinsurgency there either for what that's worth.

j brown's body said:

Is it naive to think anyone, other than a few fools and privileged sycophants, would rather live under Putin's heel than with the EU?

Wartime Imitation: Russia Holds Illegitimate Elections In Occupied Crimea

Amid its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Russia held another illegitimate election in occupied Crimea. The voting, which was denounced by Ukraine and not recognized by most countries of the world, will most likely solidify the local elites’ grip on power.

www.rferl.org

Click to expand...

Ukraine isn't in the EU. They have applied, but not in.
Remember it was attacked both times under democrat Presidents.

Integrityrespec said:

LOL. And you think Biden was better? Putin didn't invade any land during Trump's first term. He did that first under Obama, and then again under Biden. So you should check who was who's bitch.

Click to expand...

"BUH BUH BUH BIDEN!!!"

Ah, the trusted (if worn out) battle whine of the MAGA mob. Their best justification for behaving like the libz they hate is "BUH DEY DOEZ IT TOO!"

Hannity once used to prattle on about the "bold contrasting colors" of conservatism compared to liberal "pastels." Turns out the only bold color for Trumpistanis is the bright orange stain on their lips.

j brown's body said:

"....rather than attempting to address the fundamental causes of the conflict – namely Russia’s unprovoked invasion of a sovereign state – Trump and his band of fellow travellers have reached the perverse conclusion that the best way to achieve peace in Ukraine is by rewarding Russian president Vladimir Putin for his blatant act of military aggression.

By far the most outrageous suggestion made in the proposal, which Trump has called his “final offer”, is that, in return for Russia halting hostilities along the current front lines, Washington would agree to de jure recognition of Russian control of Crimea. In addition, Russia will enjoy Washington’s de facto recognition of all the territory in eastern Ukraine that Moscow has captured, occupied and illegally annexed during the past decade or so. This concession not only rewards Putin’s decade-long military effort to destroy Ukraine’s independence; it is a flagrant breach of one of the key pillars of the post-war international order, which decrees that the sovereign integrity of any nation is inviolable.

If Russia is allowed to drive a coach and horses through such a fundamental premise of international law, then what is to stop China from seizing Taiwan, or Argentina the Falkland Islands? Far from being a prescription for future peace, Trump’s capitulation to Moscow lays the foundations for future conflict. ...More importantly, it will allow Russia’s battered and exhausted military to regroup and prepare to engage in future aggressive acts against Europe’s borders, safe in the knowledge that, even if such attacks occurred against Nato member states, he has nothing to fear in terms of an American military response.

Suddenly, Trump’s quip, made during the presidential election campaign, that he would encourage Russia to attack Nato allies in Europe who did not make adequate financial provision for their defence, deserves serious consideration by Washington’s erstwhile European allies."

Link

But it could pave the way for us taking Canada or Greenland, so there's that.

Click to expand...

Yeah, Putin will just wait until the next democrat sits in the White House and start again. Seem Iran has that same tendency. Obama with a bad nuclear deal, then Biden redoing it. A deal that didn't do anything to prevent a nuclear weapon. In fact paid them to just slow down. Iran failed to meet any of the terms of the agreement even refusing the agreed upon inspections of the nuclear facilities. What did Obama or Biden do, nothing. Capitulate.

Integrityrespec said:

Yeah, Putin will just wait until the next democrat sits in the White House and start again. Seem Iran has that same tendency. Obama with a bad nuclear deal, then Biden redoing it. A deal that didn't do anything to prevent a nuclear weapon. In fact paid them to just slow down. Iran failed to meet any of the terms of the agreement even refusing the agreed upon inspections of the nuclear facilities. What did Obama or Biden do, nothing. Capitulate.

Click to expand...

Why would he wait for a Democrat when a Republican is giving him carte blanche?

Integrityrespec said:

LOL. And you think Biden was better? Putin didn't invade any land during Trump's first term. He did that first under Obama, and then again under Biden. So you should check who was who's bitch.

Click to expand...

He was upholding the international rule of law.

It defies logic to suggest Trump would have stopped Russia then while he supports Russia now.

What "cards" did Ukraine have then that it doesn't have now?

OOO, Dear Leader's getting tough!


“I am not happy with the Russian strikes on KYIV. Not necessary, and very bad timing. Vladimir, STOP! 5000 soldiers a week are dying,” Trump said in a post on his Truth Social platform. “Lets get the Peace Deal DONE!”

Hear that, Vlad? You're making Donald unhappy! He might be forced into strongly considering a tariff!

Integrityrespec said:

So What's your suggestion as to how we stop it? What should Trump, the Europeans, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, do to bring this to a close?

Click to expand...

Everyone just needs to be patient. Trump has a plan to end the war in 24 hours. No need for suggestions.