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Transgendered. Insane or Misunderstood?

I personally feel transgender individuals are...


  • Total voters
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No, I don't. Everyone I know has a precise idea of what the impairment it is they need. In most cases, this has been true from the youngest age. In my case, for example, from about age 3 or 4 I knew my legs should not be able to move or feel. I did not know about paraplegia, or spinal cord injuries, etc. Only later when I started haunting the medical library at the university did I realise that what I longed for was an actual condition.

There are a few individuals that are after different thing. Peter, who has written on my site, needs a short, left paralysed leg and an amputation of the right arm 4" above the elbow. And then there are some who for years wanted one thing, and then the desire shifted, like from a right amputation to a left.

By and large, however, people "settle" on one thing from pre-puberty and don't move from there.

Thank you for sharing this.

You're most welcome. I do my best to expand understanding of BIID.
 
Is BIID more about the disability, or the identification with those disabled in the way you desire. In other words, do you think it originates physically, or emotionally. I'm betting you'll say both--is one predominant?

Actually, I'd say neither!!! I don't desire to identify with people with disabilities. That is, my need to be paralysed does not derive from wanting to identify with people with disabilities, although being around the disability rights community were among the moments of my life where I felt I belonged most.

And isn't either about the disability. I don't want the disability (meaning disability in the social model sense of the word here, where, for example, using a wheelchair is not disabling unless there are only stairs into a building). In a way, it's not either about the impairment itself.

It is about aligning my body with my psyche. I need to bring those two in line. That my psyche says my body should be paralysed is just a case of "it is the way it is". Yes, I want and need to be paraplegic, so on the surface it could be seen as being about the disability. But it isn't, really.

As to the other aspect of your question, it most definitely has both physical and emotional aspects. Perhaps one might say that if it's emotional in origin, we're looking at a mental illness. I don't have a problem with that label. Others in the BIID community are very upset at the idea of being labelled mentally ill. If it's physical (as in, brain difference of neural pathways), then it's not a mental illness. In the end, I really couldn't give a fig what label people slap on me, just as long as I can be offered surgery. I've lived 35+ of my 40 years in intense emotional anguish. I have no desire to live the other half of my life the same way.
 
I found Bracy's comment intriguing.

It seems he sees BIID as a coping mechanism. That seems similar to what I've read about anorexia.
 
I found Bracy's comment intriguing.

It seems he sees BIID as a coping mechanism. That seems similar to what I've read about anorexia.

It would appear that way. Bracy is not representative of the majority of people with whom I've had interactions with over the last decade who have BIID though

One big difference between anorexia and BIID, btw, is that (in general) anorexic believe their body is abnormal and have a skewed perception of reality. Those who have BIID are fully aware that their body is "normal". It just so happens that "normal" isn't the right body form for us.
 
You gotta be crazy to want to chop off your weiner.

Not if you feel as if it should not be there and as if you are trapped inside a body that is not your own. This whole thread makes me sad because so many people that have no idea what Trannies go through are just hateful and judgemental.
 
That's not what I've read--there are varying "levels" of identification in BIID just as there are in GID. Some BIID people are perfectly fine to just "pass" as disabled, just as some GID are fine with passing.

I agree. My post was unclear. I should have included the word "desire" to denote the varying levels.
 
This, also, I think is premature to identify as a "conclusion." There is little information for such a definitive statement as your last sentence indicates.

That's true, though, preliminarily, accurate.
 

There is a difference. The issues around Anorexia remain even if liposuction occurs. Weight is not the issue with anorexics; control and mood modulation is. With BIID, OCD components and self-injurious components are also looking to be resolved. GID is caused by the disconnect between gender and genitalia. Issues do not remain after SRT.
 

Firstly, welcome to the forum. Your input is helpful in this issue. As a treating psychotherapist I have not worked with anyone with BIID, but I have read much of the research, including visiting your site, previously.

From what I understand, what you say above is only part of the picture. There is also a component of envy of the disabled and desire to identify with someone they feel like. From your website, one of the symptoms that will, probably, be included as diagnostic criteria for BIID in the DSM-V:

A feeling of intense jealousy at the sight of someone who has the impairment required.

My comment was showing a differential between GID and BIID. GID sufferers do not have a similar symptom.


That is certainly interesting to know.


I am aware of the difference, and misspoke. Impaired is the accurate word. Penned the post after an insomniatic night. Thank you.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here... What we gain is a feeling of wholeness, of rightness. When it comes to interacting with other people, we can do it from a position of internal and emotional strength.

A BIID sufferer gains the experience of being impaired, understanding what being impaired is, and, feeling whole because of being impaired. A GID already is the gender that SRT will accomplish for them. A BIID sufferer is not impaired prior to any surgery.



Well, not really. We do not seek body alteration. We seek to align our psyche with our body. The fact that the only way to currently do this involves body alteration is nearly irrelevant.

You're mixing and matching stuff here Captain, don't confuse the issue. People who have OCD don't do the things they do because of a need for acceptance.

That's not completely true. Unconscious motivations and anxieties that create rituals and OCD can, certainly be caused by a need/desire for acceptance. This could be the "trigger" point or the deep motivation, but is often lost through years of ritualistic behavior. It's like Pavlov's Dog. If the behavior is repeated for a long enough time, the trigger is often so buried that it is no longer the direct trigger.

Self-injurers are repeaters of actions.

There is far more to self-injury then that. The repetitive nature of self injury is a minor component. Self-injurers, self-harm for several reasons: mood modulation, control, suicide prevention, affective creation, and/or a response to self-loathing. Often, similar to OCD, if the behavior continues, a Pavlovian reaction will occur; the trigger may be unconscious or unknown, but the behavior will occur, anyway. Cessation of the behavior, reproduces the triggering feelings, often with intensity, which can dislodge the triggers and generate understanding of them. +30% of my practice is made up of self-injurers, and I give workshops on the issue, so I can, certainly provide more information on it if you'd like.

Those of us with BIID who have managed to acquire the impairment they needed saw their anguish and need gone overnight. They state, almost universally that the only thing they regret is to not have done it sooner.

I hear this. My only issue with it is that it still differs from GID in the sense that it is a created body alteration, whereas GID matches brain biology to body structure. I have a hard time understanding how someone can be born with brain/neuro biology that defines them as impaired. We know that gender biology is rooted in several core biological constructs. Impairment is not.

I'll give you that BIID might *look* like other conditions, such as BDD (anorexia for example), but there are some quite distinct differences.

I would agree with this.

As stated earlier, there is evidence of neurological changes in the brain of people who have BIID. There is also changes in skin conductivity above the required level of amputation/injury and below it - something that apparently can't be faked...

This is interesting. Are these changes noted before or after an impairment occurs?


I can agree with all of this. Our own self-perception can be very confusing and, often does not match how other see us, or with the reality of our bodies.

And, in no way, am I diminishing the disabling effect of BIID.

Of course there is a political bend to the research into BIID. Researchers need to be funded, funders have political leanings. Doh! Doesn't mean that research is not appropriate.

I agree. I have read some questionable research, and have read some that seems quite valid. I suppose that is par for the course, especially with new research.

 
. Issues do not remain after SRT.

They obviously do in some cases as indicated by those that go back to their birth sex with mutilated organs. Removal of organs is extreme--perhaps it's appropriate in some cases, but I certainly think it may be too available due to those things Lightdemon and I were discussing about comorbidity of illness. Once the operation is done, there is no going back to the healthy natural state. And that's true for BIID and GID.
 
A GID already is the gender that SRT will accomplish for them.
Is there a way to test the brain chemistry other than through autopsy. If so--THAT should be a criteria for SRT.

I read something that suggested BIID was very like Phantom Limb, but only in reverse. That would be the same sort of brain chemistry issue that you are citing as why GID should be surgically treated.
 
In the city I grew up I had a transfemale friend named Katrina. I didn't know her for very long, maybe 5-6 months (after that I moved). She lead a very difficult life, not because she had sex reassignment surgery, but because of society. People constantly wanted to label her as a freak or someone who was mentally ill. She would have been mentally ill had she not been permitted to change her sex, because she felt completely trapped.

People who are against this... a lot of them think that some people with an idea go out and get their sex changed all willy nilly. It's an incredibly expensive, mentally and physically demanding process that involves many screening processes. Doctors who know how to perform this special kind of surgery will not permit you to do it without proof that you have received substantial psychological assessment. You basically have to get the ok from many doctors, and they don't give it easily.

You may think it's sick because you don't get it, and you don't get it because you obviously are comfortable with the anatomy you were born with. That is the whole point of what it means to be transexual... you have a gender identity that is not compatible with your physical sex.

I think by judging these people, we are excluding members from our society that have very unique insight into human identity. They have experienced what it is like to be perceived as both genders by others, even though their psychological gender has remained consistent. They know what it is like to transition between the two. Most of the harsh judgment comes from ignorance. If you fall outside of the very narrowly defined male/female heterosexual status quo, then you are likely subject to misunderstanding. Homosexuals have received more political elevation, especially in recent years, but transexuals still remain a grey area (though admittedly their issue is not about who they are attracted to).

I also don't like how the psychiatric community discusses this particular issue, but I understand that their research is necessary to shed more light on this way of being.
 
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Quoted for truth. We are really doing these people a disservice by not recognizing transgenderness as a mental illness. They need psychiatric treatment, not boobs.
 
Quoted for truth. We are really doing these people a disservice by not recognizing transgenderness as a mental illness. They need psychiatric treatment, not boobs.

Riiiight.
And you, in conjunction with- haha- Jamesrage, would be in a better position to make that determination than the APA and the entire national and international medical and mental health community.

:lol:
 
 
Riiiight.
And you, in conjunction with- haha- Jamesrage, would be in a better position to make that determination than the APA and the entire national and international medical and mental health community.

:lol:

Just because at this point in human history a group of psychiatrists make a determination, does not mean it is correct. Look at the history of science and psychiatry and see how many times things once taken to be true have been proven wrong. You'd probably be in the crowd of people burning a guy at the stake for spreading the blasphemy that the Earth is not the center of the universe.
 

Yes, they need treatment, and for many, the treatment is gender reassignment surgery. Other than that, there is no "treatment" that works. It's like trying to "treat" people for being homosexuals like they used to do pre-1970's. It doesn't work and it's who they are, structurally. For the sake of argument I'm going to presume you are a heterosexual male. Now, imagine being treated for being a "heterosexual" so that you perfectly conform to a "homosexual" reality. It cannot be done.

I would say it's only a "mental illness" once their inability to reconcile their situation begins to degrade their quality of life; however, knowing that their physical body is a different sex than their mental gender is not in of itself a mental illness. If you would kindly do an iota of preliminary research, you would see that there is no treatment to make them come into alignment with their physical sex.

Gender identity is hardwired in the brain. It is more than likely a structural process. In other words, it is natural. Not all transexuals want reassignment surgery, but those who do should have the option. Many who don't come to terms with their situation need a therapist to figure out their options; others don't believe they have a problem, but a therapeutic diagnosis can help them to alleviate the societal stigma.

It's ignorant to make a blanket statement calling every person with gender identity issues delusional. Please do some basic research. In my line of medicine I don't deal with this type of issue, but even I know basic information about it. It's not a matter of the mind not accepting reality; the disposition of the mind is reality, and their physical bodies do not conform to that reality.
 

At page 50, I was so hoping that we were past this nonsense.

I've cited maybe 4-5 studies about GID, GID identity, and SRT. I mean, we even had Sean, an actual person with BIID to elaborate about identity.

What is it that makes you reject the individuals choice in identity? I don't get it. Just because you have a penis, you automatically throw out all possibilities that may suggest otherwise? Really? Even with the surmounting evidence that says you're body doesn't define who you are?

The problem isn't that GIDs or BIIDs have a delusion, its that you aren't capable of accepting the reality that they have a concrete identity.
 
The problem isn't that GIDs or BIIDs have a delusion, its that you aren't capable of accepting the reality that they have a concrete identity.

I think there is yet much to learn on the topics and it is evident that gender identity (and in all likelihood BIID, also) is indeed at least SOMETIMES a delusion that is the result of a diseased brain.
 
I think there is yet much to learn on the topics and it is evident that gender identity (and in all likelihood BIID, also) is indeed at least SOMETIMES a delusion that is the result of a diseased brain.

I agree, there's no mistake about that. More research is definitely called for, as is always.

It may be that it is a delusion, a symptom of another disorder. But there are already measures that take that into account (DSM-V should have definitely improved in this area). The extensive counseling and the doctors' consent, and all of what everybody who knew a transsexual has said in this thread. The process is a tiresome one, and an exhaustive one.

These measures should give us a good picture of what reality is and what identity is for the transsexual, even though it may not always be correct 100% of the time. But the fact that there's been such a high degree of success with SRT points towards the idea that identity is not dictated by the body. When you put all of this together, it suggests that the high majority of the cases dealing with GID are cases concerning Identity, not delusions.
 
I think there is yet much to learn on the topics and it is evident that gender identity (and in all likelihood BIID, also) is indeed at least SOMETIMES a delusion

Ok.

that is the result of a diseased brain.

Now it's a diseased brain? :roll: What disease?
 
Changes noted before amputation. So if someone needs an amputation 3" above the knee, the skin conductivity will be different when measured above and below the required amputation level.

And, in no way, am I diminishing the disabling effect of BIID.

I am very glad to hear that. BIID has certainly altered my quality of life to the point that I dread the rest of my life unless I get the paralysis I need.

And

This is an interesting topic for me - how many TS try to "revert" back. I haven't looked for research on this, and don't even know if there is, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the majority of people who regret surgery and transition are the ones who actually bypassed the "system". It is actually not that difficult to get hormones on the black market, and getting surgery in Asia is also not particularly tricky. Just a thought...


Yeah, but... The problem is that there is NO "treatment" other than surgery to help transsexuals. Psychotherapy and psychiatry is helpful for people who have GID to get to know themselves better and ensure as much as possible that SRS is indeed what they are after. But that's about the extent of it. Medication doesn't change the need. So, why alter the body rather than align the mind? Simply because there is no way to align the mind. And transsexuals are not delusional.

FWIW, that paragraph I just wrote would also apply to transabled individuals
 
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I tried to back up a few pages and see where this discussion was before adding the following link to mull over, however; I am lost with this acronym laden discussion here.

Anyhow thought this is article may be germane for this thread:

BBC NEWS | Health | Male transsexual gene link found

Australian researchers have identified a significant link between a gene involved in testosterone action and male transsexualism.
 

I brought up comorbidity of illness way back, early in the thread. This is an important point. I agree, and have said that a thorough evaluation must occur to be sure that GID is the accurate diagnosis. There are other issues that can present symptoms similar to GID. These issues will respond to more traditional psychotherapuetic interventions, so they most be teased out before a treatment as radical as SRT is performed.
 
Quoted for truth. We are really doing these people a disservice by not recognizing transgenderness as a mental illness. They need psychiatric treatment, not boobs.


Before making such uninformed statements, try reading through the thread. Then, when you make your points, try coming from a position of knowledge, with some substantiation or facts. You have presented none of this, here.
 
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