Trans

[BeckyJ]

.

 

[Mr Person]

Again?

Really?

 

[bythoughts]

Where's the box for "gender is a figment of your imagination, inculcated by sexist stereotypes and stilted cultural conformity"? Sex exists, as an approximation, but only at the biological level. There is nothing inherently female in a tube of lipstick.

 

[Gozaburo]

It seems to me that if you follow transsexuality to its logical conclusion, you have to adopt an almost religious view of a human essence or soul. There's some quality which is beyond sex organs, vocal cords, broad shoulders, and lipstick. You almost have to believe that your sex organs, flat chest, and even your own DNA are merely superficial and arbitrary, meaningless and accidental. You have to believe in some concept of an essence, immortal soul, psyche, or whatever you'd like to call it which is beyond even the chemicals in your brain.

I don't see how you could believe transsexuality is "real" in any other way. The only alternative would be something akin to a massive unspoken social contract where we all implicitly understand it to be a delusion - or at the very least a defect - but collectively agree that for this particular abnormality it is better for both them and society if we legitimized it.

Now that I think about it, in many ways the transsexual has become this philosophical ideal of Nietzsche's Übermensch. They've overcome moral, social, and physical constraints and ascended, becoming post-human. Probably not what Nietzsche had in mind.

 

[Fearandloathing]

.

We keep wasting bandwidth like this there won't be any.

 

[Napoleon]

Where's the box for "gender is a figment of your imagination, inculcated by sexist stereotypes and stilted cultural conformity"? Sex exists, as an approximation, but only at the biological level. There is nothing inherently female in a tube of lipstick.

Someone hast to tell the trans that. One of the most twisted things about the trans ideology is that it’s deeply rooted in sexism and gender stereotypes.

 

[bythoughts]

You have to believe in some concept of an essence, immortal soul, psyche, or whatever you'd like to call it which is beyond even the chemicals in your brain.

This much is true. But what's weirder is, you have to believe your soul has a sex. Why on Earth would I think that? Some limited biological compulsion that nibbles around the far fringes of consciousness is supposed to be part of a person's core essence?

 

[Fearandloathing]

This much is true. But what's weirder is, you have to believe your soul has a sex. Why on Earth would I think that? Some limited biological compulsion that nibbles around the far fringes of consciousness is supposed to be part of a person's core essence?

By suppressing sex America has created a monster of sexuality as opposed to a core method of preserving and promoting humanity. "Sex" is bad. Desire is wrong. So of course people need more and more of it.

 

[The Brad Dad]

It seems to me that if you follow transsexuality to its logical conclusion, you have to adopt an almost religious view of a human essence or soul. There's some quality which is beyond sex organs, vocal cords, broad shoulders, and lipstick. You almost have to believe that your sex organs, flat chest, and even your own DNA are merely superficial and arbitrary, meaningless and accidental. You have to believe in some concept of an essence, immortal soul, psyche, or whatever you'd like to call it which is beyond even the chemicals in your brain.

I don't see how you could believe transsexuality is "real" in any other way. The only alternative would be something akin to a massive unspoken social contract where we all implicitly understand it to be a delusion - or at the very least a defect - but collectively agree that for this particular abnormality it is better for both them and society if we legitimized it.

Now that I think about it, in many ways the transsexual has become this philosophical ideal of Nietzsche's Übermensch. They've overcome moral, social, and physical constraints and ascended, becoming post-human. Probably not what Nietzsche had in mind.

Or you could not think about it at all.

 

[The Brad Dad]

By suppressing sex America has created a monster of sexuality as opposed to a core method of preserving and promoting humanity. "Sex" is bad. Desire is wrong. So of course people need more and more of it.

I would add the right sexualizes *everything*. It's why they want to label anything related to LGTBQ+ as "pornographic", in example.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Or you could not think about it at all.

Or.............

not think at all as it appears many Americans do.

 

[The Brad Dad]

Or.............

not think at all as it appears many Americans do.

I would love to be at a place where folks aren't interested in other folks' genitals.

 

[TheDoctorWasIn]

It seems to me that if you follow transsexuality to its logical conclusion, you have to adopt an almost religious view of a human essence or soul. There's some quality which is beyond sex organs, vocal cords, broad shoulders, and lipstick. You almost have to believe that your sex organs, flat chest, and even your own DNA are merely superficial and arbitrary, meaningless and accidental. You have to believe in some concept of an essence, immortal soul, psyche, or whatever you'd like to call it which is beyond even the chemicals in your brain.

I disagree entirely.

There's nothing religious, or even spiritual to the idea that we, as humans, are defined more by what goes on inside our brains than our bodies, or even our DNA.

We don't inherit thoughts in our DNA, or our tastes and preferences. The chemicals in our brains are themselves not quantifiable - they are the "soul."

 

[Gozaburo]

This much is true. But what's weirder is, you have to believe your soul has a sex. Why on Earth would I think that?

Perhaps even after ascending, the transsexual ultimately still finds themselves trapped in the binary thinking of the society they'd like to extricate themselves from.

I suppose that kind of refutes my Übermensch sidebar!

 

[Fearandloathing]

I would love to be at a place where folks aren't interested in other folks' genitals.

Actually......

Vancouver is the birthplace of "Gay Pride" parades having staged an illegal one back in the day.

I attended this year's, a "Pride Parade" (no 'gay' anymore as 'all inclusive' is the Vancouver way.). A near 80 old guy and felt right at home! Got to draw a vine on a woman's bare breast, sign a navel and dance with a trans, my best friend.

No one gives a shit about your gender, how you dress, what language you spoke at birth or color of your skin - hair color?

What matters is how you hug.

 

[The Brad Dad]

Actually......

Vancouver is the birthplace of "Gay Pride" parades having staged an illegal one back in the day.

I attended this year's, a "Pride Parade" (no 'gay' anymore as 'all inclusive' is the Vancouver way.). A near 80 old guy and felt right at home! Got to draw a vine on a woman's bare breast, sign a navel and dance with a trans, my best friend.

No one gives a shit about your gender, how you dress, what language you spoke at birth or color of your skin - hair color?

What matters is how you hug.

My circle has always included 31 flavors for a reason.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Someone hast to tell the trans that. One of the most twisted things about the trans ideology is that it’s deeply rooted in sexism and gender stereotypes.

Amazing, that you would fall for this hook, line and sinker.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Ask simplistic questions and then stop participating on the very thread you posted. Yet some people fall for this bait.

 

[Gozaburo]

We don't inherit thoughts in our DNA, or our tastes and preferences. The chemicals in our brains are themselves not quantifiable - they are the "soul."

But isn't there something to be said about transcending beyond all of these things - so much so as make them arbitrary - and become pure soul? I'd argue that for a transsexual to be truly embodied they really have to believe in some kind of transcendent nature - synapses firing are just an arbitrary circumstance, just like your sex organs, broad shoulders, or preference for Gloria Gaynor's music.

 

[Gozaburo]

Or you could not think about it at all.

Oh, but I do prefer thinking.

 

[bomberfox]

It seems to me that if you follow transsexuality to its logical conclusion, you have to adopt an almost religious view of a human essence or soul. There's some quality which is beyond sex organs, vocal cords, broad shoulders, and lipstick. You almost have to believe that your sex organs, flat chest, and even your own DNA are merely superficial and arbitrary, meaningless and accidental. You have to believe in some concept of an essence, immortal soul, psyche, or whatever you'd like to call it which is beyond even the chemicals in your brain.

I don't see how you could believe transsexuality is "real" in any other way. The only alternative would be something akin to a massive unspoken social contract where we all implicitly understand it to be a delusion - or at the very least a defect - but collectively agree that for this particular abnormality it is better for both them and society if we legitimized it.

Now that I think about it, in many ways the transsexual has become this philosophical ideal of Nietzsche's Übermensch. They've overcome moral, social, and physical constraints and ascended, becoming post-human. Probably not what Nietzsche had in mind.

well if you can believe an unproven magic man in the universe im sure this shouldnt be much of a problem. This aint anything like the ubermensch, its simple study of how people’s brains are wired.

 

[bomberfox]

Oh, but I do prefer thinking.

Did you get a whisper from the creator?

 

[TheDoctorWasIn]

But isn't there something to be said about transcending beyond all of these things - so much so as make them arbitrary - and become pure soul?

In the sense that I'm using it, we're already "pure soul." But there's nothing "arbitrary" about it.

I understand where you're coming from - the analytical, rational, science-based position. And I agree. There is no God, there is no supernatural. There's no immortal soul. There's no such thing as magic, the tricks are just slight of hand.

But that doesn't mean that we, as a scientific society, understand everything. The gaps in our knowledge can be explained by "spirituality" and religion, but they can also be explained by science, simply with the statement "we don't know yet."

I don't believe that our DNA, or our physical form, define us to the extent that it overrides what's going on in our heads. When my burly, bearded male friends tell me they've always felt like they should have been a girl, I believe them. There's no empirical science telling me not to.

I'd argue that for a transsexual to be truly embodied they really have to believe in some kind of transcendent nature - synapses firing are just an arbitrary circumstance, just like your sex organs, broad shoulders, or preference for Gloria Gaynor's music.

What does "to be truly embodied" mean?

"Synapses firing" is why people are trans.

 

[phoenix2020]

.

What's your opinion?

 

[Gozaburo]

I understand where you're coming from - the analytical, rational, science-based position. And I agree. There is no God, there is no supernatural. There's no immortal soul. There's no such thing as magic, the tricks are just slight of hand.

To be clear - I wouldn't say this is what I'm saying at all. I acknowledge that there could be, or maybe probably is some kind of transcendent quality to the universe which is beyond our understanding.

I don't believe that our DNA, or our physical form, define us to the extent that it overrides what's going on in our heads. When my burly, bearded male friends tell me they've always felt like they should have been a girl, I believe them. There's no empirical science telling me not to.

Sure, I'd agree.

What does "to be truly embodied" mean?

By "truly embodied" I mean that a transsexual has sincerely transcended all material reality and this is something they must believe because if they do not, then they are not truly transsexual.

"Synapses firing" is why people are trans.

I'm not sure if trans people would be able to believe this and maintain logical consistency. If it's all soul, how can you be conscious of that fact? Perhaps you believe its synapses firing (which begs a couple of questions by the way) but what do they believe?

And to follow up: if it's just a matter of chemistry, if it isn't transcendent, then it seems to me that you would have to follow the same logic for other unusual pathologies and personality disorders from Bipolar to Schizophrenia. Otherwise I'd say your being arbitrary, or perhaps taking a utilitarian approach where some pathologies are less dangerous or more exciting than others. Perhaps it is like I said in my first post: we're all a part of a massive conspiracy to recognize "pure soul" because that is simply what is best for the group.