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Top Trump officials will meet with China amid trade war

anatta said:
i gaveyou the reason Trump went with tariffs on China, instead of sitting around a table talking about talking.
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You gave a reason, but just because you provided one doesn't make it a good one. Now here there administration is talking about deescalating the fight they started.

Yep, I have no issue with this either. I am not a "tariffs never!" advocate, since they do have a place in trade policy, but like any tool it's how it's used that matters. As for your comment about Trump being enamored with tariffs as a revenue source, that too is completely misguided in the current world. He's harkening back to a time when mercantilism was still a thing, and even back then it did not go well in terms of economic stability globally.
 
He wouldn't last a year as CEO of a publicly traded company, that's certain based on his current economic decisions. What's been fascinating about all of this is how he's managing to undo the stability the US has created and benefited from for decades over what he thinks is "unfair trade" when I'm pretty sure he has no concept of what the US has built to ensure its own economic hegemony.

What he's managed to do is give all of the nations who have been looking to untether themselves from the US financial system an easy way to justify it and I suspect we'll see new partnerships form nations invest less and move away from the US. He's the proof of concept that the stability which kept nations tied to our financial system is no longer a sure thing, since investment decisions are based on long term projections. Nations now know it is possible to elect leaders in the US who are impulsive and could launch unprovoked trade wars against their trading partners.
 
I'm reminded of something I learned way back during Trump's first term.

China is very good at showing their sweet, lovable Panda and then turning around and bringing out their Dragon. "We want to work with Trump." "We will fight to the end!"

Trump is good at that, too. "Xi and I get along very well. He's a great leader." "By the way, I'm going to add another 125% tariff on top of all the other tariffs!"

Trump has done this with leaders of other countries, too. Just today, he talked about how much he likes Carney...but when asked if he'll reduce tariffs on Canada (right in front of Carney), Trump said, "No. Why should I?"

So...both Xi and Trump know how to dance and that's what they are doing right now. Both sides know how this dance is going to end, too.
 
Deflation is strangling the economy while Xi and his apparatchiks are unable to cajole, prompt, push or motivate the mass of its middle income population to spend.

Xi has had to lift his 125% tariffs on US goods which the Chinese weren't buying anyway because they won't spend. Had Xi left the 125% tariff in effect the Chinese people who have lost confidence in him would have dismissed him outright and finally as any kind of effective or competent leader.

What the Chinese population is seeing is Xi mimic Trump erratically by announcing tariffs then calling 'em off while pretending he's in control. Then Xi unsuccessfully demanding Trump ease tariffs before talks while having to agree to preliminary talks in Geneva anyway and regardless.

Each Xi and Trump want and need to ease off on the tariffs but Trump wants his pound of China flesh. Given the CCP export model is in shambles and deflation rules, Xi has to give it to him. GDP is down to 1% to 3% and the Chinese are sitting on their money, gold and silver. While they are not buying whether there are tariffs or not, Xi is looking very bad at not being able any more to successfully manage the CCP-USA relationship. Xi is losing face with his own people for sure. Trump will keep some tariffs on some CCP exports just to make this worse for Xi if for no other reason or purpose.
 
Yeah, that was a stroke of "genius" comparable to his comment about how the US doesn't do much business with Canada.
 

Sure, he has done this, but there isn't any talent to being pugnacious and polarizing. It serves no point other than being an asshole and reinforcing his image as a shallow bully. If you want to see shrewdness rather than childish preening follow Putin - Trump is just a bully with a fact free brain, when Putin speaks, people listen...or else.
 
phoenix2020 said:
China has been very clear, Trump de-escalates first then maybe they’ll talk
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The meeting is billed as a de-escalation meeting. I suspect the Chinese position will be that American tariffs must be dropped before they talk trade and I don't think they will budge until that happens. The talks will take forever and ever and very little change.
 
And just like last time China will make promises and then make very little effort in keeping them. They know Trump just wants a "win".
 
dmpi said:
Trump's not a political hack who thinks winning and saving face is everything
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Do you really , really believe that? Really? With Trump it's ALL about saving face and winning!
 
What an absurd statement.
The only "deal" donald is brewing up, is his seventh bankruptcy.
The bankrupting of America.
 
Mycroft said:
Of course Trump understands. He knows he has the US in a win-win position.
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Better to have a president use leverage on China to address their many WTO, IP violations and other malfeasance.
All Biden could muster was to not enforce the Phase One of the Trump trade deal, having leverage on China and not using it, major F-Up by Biden.
But then again, Biden was bought and paid for by the Chinese.
 
Given that Chinese culture places a high value on saving face, I'm guessing that Trump knows this too, and won't cause China to lose face to get the results needed.
 
anatta said:
U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer will "meet with his counterpart from the People's Republic of China to discuss trade matters" during a trip to Switzerland, his office said in a statement.
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Oh, goody, a meeting.

If China is smart--and it is way smarter than Trump and idiot sycophants--they'll wait a while. Trump is increasingly desperate as the U.S. economy begins to feel the weight of his voluntary destruction of supply chains.

The longer trading partners wait, the better deals they will get from slick, uncomprehending Donny.
 
eohrnberger said:
Given that Chinese culture places a high value on saving face, I'm guessing that Trump knows this too, and won't cause China to lose face to get the results needed.
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You have it backwards. China can wait it out. They don't have to respond to public pressure like the U.S. does. Look how they handled Covid. That never would have been tolerated in a democracy.

China is in the driver's seat, not Trump.
 
trump is increasingly desperate as the U.S. economy begins to feel the weight of his voluntary destruction of supply chains.
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like what?
China initiated the talks
 
Mycroft said:
Of course Trump understands. He knows he has the US in a win-win position.
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The US is in a lose-lose position. All Trump can do now is try to stanch the bleeding.
 
anatta said:
like what?
China initiated the talks
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I read the OP article. It doesn't say who initiated the talks. For all we know, the U.S. has been pleading with China every day to begin negotiations and it's China that's been resisting. That would be my guess, anyway.

Also, by the way, as a proud non-member of the cult, I don't trust a single word that comes out of the Trump administration.
 
jpn said:
The US is in a lose-lose position. All Trump can do now is try to stanch the bleeding.
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And yet, it's China that has thousands of factories shutting down, tens of thousands of workers out of a job and thousands protesting publicly. And it'll only get worse for them.

Who's losing?
 
200 deals and only 195(ish) countries. He must be counting those penguin habitats still.
 
Mycroft said:
And yet, it's China that has thousands of factories shutting down, tens of thousands of workers out of a job and thousands protesting publicly. And it'll only get worse for them.
Who's losing?
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The nation that began this idiocy for no defensible reason.
 
Ya'll don't get it.
He's playing 10D chess ya'll






**ghostwritten by Tony Schwartz
 
You do know your stellar argument about his "art of the deal" would be much more biting, if he had actually written the ****ing book, right?
You bought a con. You are buying a con. You will forever be conned. If the Kool-Aid ever gets bitter, spit it out!
 
jpn said:
You have it backwards.
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Specific to what I posted, I don't.

jpn said:
China can wait it out. They don't have to respond to public pressure like the U.S. does. Look how they handled Covid. That never would have been tolerated in a democracy.
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On this point we have agreement.

jpn said:
China is in the driver's seat, not Trump.
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This has nothing to do with what I posted, as I made no statement about 'who's in the driver's seat'.
 
There's the important part of the saving face dynamic for both as well, and that will be interesting to see play out. The problem with the way this has been laid out is the tariffs are quite broad, so you have to get into the weeds of which make sense and which don't. Both countries have a lot to lose here, so I'm sure they're eager to sort things out. The main difference I see is China's accelerating their diversification of trading partners, because the lesson from the last time was to do exactly that to avoid unstable US administrations.
 
Every time the Chinese government back down a little more, whether it's tariff exemptions, not actually banning rare Earth exports, having Lan Fo'an repeatedly call Scott Bessent , the leftoids response is "BUT THEY'RE STILL NOT OFFICALLY NEGOTIATING!!!!"

Well now they are.
 
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