To which Political Group do I belong?

[John1234]

This is my first time visiting a forum in which the forums primary purpose is to debate politics.
Since not long after 911, I have been getting more and more interested in Politics.
After a lot of reading, communicating with people around the world and within America, and some soul searching... I know exactly where i stand on the issues.

But my combination of stances seems to be rather unique and I can not find a political party that i share enough in common with to feel comfortable with.
I don't want to "embrace" being an Independent. Independents have no center, no real party. And they, as a whole, don't seem to stand for anything at all.

This is a brief run down of how i view the most common issues.

Abortion - I am pro Life. However, I do not feel we should have a federal law for it. Instead I would like to see a tremendous amount of resources put into education and adoption type alternatives.
I would like to live in a country where everyone knows abortion is a terrible thing, but accepts that it is sometimes the best choice for the woman AND man to make. I do feel it is 50% the mans choice to make but in cases of disagreement the final decision would be the womans.

Gay Marriage - I am completely against it. And disgusted by the idea that its even a consideration. But if it comes to the point where a compromise must be made, I would have each state decide how they want to handle it.

Freedom of Speech - I am disgusted at the direction our morals have taken in this country. Even within my short life I have noticed a massive change.
In the areas where we are meant to have free speech, we are not using it.
(Censored and biased press with 1 sided cooperate views in a society where if its not on a major network, it simply never happened)
But in areas where our founding fathers never imagined we would go... we cling to freedom of speech as an excuse.
I guarantee you when they amended the constitution for Free Speech that they did not have pictures of transvestites and dildos in mind.
Nor did they have in mind to pump realistic bloody murder scenes into our children 24/7.
I don't have the answer. But people need to forget all this conservative and liberal crap and simply fix it where we are free.
Free to speak and free from all the filth.

Failure of the press - We need a press in this country that tells the truth from the "Human" point of view. Currently we don't have a single "major" news outlet that is not either after manipulation or ratings.
When i was very young i seem to remember that being a news man was an extremely honorable job.
Does anyone have respect for our news anchors of today? I sure don't.

Economics - I believe the Republican plan is just a tool to keep the poor in their place and make the rich richer while eliminating the middle class.
And I believe the Democratic plan is dangerous, creates dependency on the federal government, and in todays times could bankrupt our economy worse than it already is.

War on Terror - What war on terror? All I ever hear about is Iraq. There were no terrorists in Iraq until we destroyed their security.
Even if we did not abandon the war on terror and use it as an excuse for Global Conquest, you dont fight it with guns and bombs.
For every single bomb we dropped, we created hundreds more.
For every hundred thousand we directly or indirectly caused to die, we created two hundred thousand terrorists.
At 911 we had a few thousand hardcore terrorists around the world that intended to hurt us.
After our actions since 911 we now have millions of people around the globe that would like to hurt us.
And to the rest of the world we are now considered the largest threat to global security.
Terrorism is a mind set. Until we learn that it can't be defeated with guns and bombs, it will just continue to grow.
I believe that we need to put out tremendous resources to fight the war on terror.
But you fight it through peace, compromise, education, understanding, good will gestures. You don't fight it by killing.

War in Iraq Specifically -
Fact - There were no terrorists until we invaded and they flooded into the country.
Fact - There were no weapons of mass destruction.
Fact - We killed more Iraqi's in 1 year than Saddam did in 20.
Fact - Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 911 what so ever. Not one shred of proof has ever been offered to the public.

We conquered their country without cause or reason.
I listen to the people going on about the war...
There is no war.
We won the war. Their army surrendered.
What we are doing now is trying to control them.

Look at history... When an invading army takes a new land, the way they control it is through mass killing. And even then there is usually a resistance that lasts for years.
We are evil enough for the initial invasion, but not evil enough to do what is needed to finish the job.

Now that we have destroyed their country and removed their security, we have an obligation to stay.
We wrongfully committed what is to me, the worst sin imaginable.
And now we must fix it the best we can by protecting these people from civil war and fixing their country.
Its the price we pay for being such a sheepish people and believing all the lies told to us by our government.

President Bush - Of course he should be tried for war crimes.
He lied to us. And as a result of the lies, hundreds of thousand of people are dead.
If he killed all of those people with a hatchet, would we even be having a debate if he is guilty?

Finally - I am a Human First. Then a proud American.
Proud of what our country is supposed to be. Not in what it is becoming.
I believe that all people of the world are equal and have equal rights.
From the cooperate big shots that pull our puppet leader's strings, to the people living in African dirt huts, to the Iranians or to whoever.
We are all god's children.

Most Importantly - What matters to me most is being on the side of good.
What i find the most disturbing in all of politics is that i see people claiming to be Christian who rally behind those who want to drop bombs and invade countries.
I can guarantee you that Jesus Christ is not in support of bombing and murder. And especially when the ones we kill did nothing at all to us.
I just can not understand why a person would support global conquest and war for monetary gain and do so under a fake veil of Christianity.
It makes me sick.


In summary - I am a Christian. And as such I believe that the most important reflection on the type people we are is in how we treat OTHERS.
How we manage our own lives is also very important. But its how we treat those outside of our society that truly defines us.
At present, we as a people are failing very badly as Christians.
------
Ok so what am I?
I learn towards the republicans with my in-country moral views.
I am right in the middle with my economic views.
I am right there with the Democrats on Iraq and on our policy abroad.
(Obama was not the only one that was right. I was right long before i heard of him)
But i am very far from the Democrats on internal moral issues.
And I think its quite clear that I am not a Liberal.
I am very much against McCain because to me he has Global Nuclear Warfare written all over him from head to toe.
But i also can't stomache the values of the Liberals.

Seems like i am all over the place. From the far left to the right right and back again.
But to me... all of my views are the way of "good".
Its very important to me to be right and to be on the "good" side.
I will be voting for the Democrat in the general election.
But only because how we treat others is my most important issue.
I don't agree with them on how we treat ourselves.
And i don't actually believe we should pull out of Iraq. Its just that my reasons for staying are opposite from the Republican reason.
Mine is because we have to fix what we broke while theirs is global conquest and god knows what else.

So am i just a freak that stands alone or are their others like me who share my views?

 

[puppyluv]

Hi John,

You sound like a Libertarian to me.

I share many of your feelings about the situation in Iraq, but bear in mind that Saddam was a terrorist himself, he and his sons. He paid people to be Palestinian suicide bombers. Look at the things his sons did. We really don't know how many people they killed between themselves, and most of the people we've killed were terrorists, not Iraqi citizens. And there were WMDs in Iraq, just not the ones we were looking for.

That said, it should have been handled much differently. Surgical strikes to take them out, and then let the people of Iraq take care of themselves. The way it was handled, we'll be there a long, long time, investing a lot more money and lives than we had to.

 

[Tashah]

:tink: ~Tashah~

 

[John1234]

Hi John,

You sound like a Libertarian to me.

I share many of your feelings about the situation in Iraq, but bear in mind that Saddam was a terrorist himself, he and his sons. He paid people to be Palestinian suicide bombers. Look at the things his sons did. We really don't know how many people they killed between themselves, and most of the people we've killed were terrorists, not Iraqi citizens. And there were WMDs in Iraq, just not the ones we were looking for.

That said, it should have been handled much differently. Surgical strikes to take them out, and then let the people of Iraq take care of themselves. The way it was handled, we'll be there a long, long time, investing a lot more money and lives than we had to.

Hey thanks, I will look more deeply into "Libertarian" views and see what I think.

As for the rest. While it might be similar to my views, i dont think its all that close.
I dont even want to touch the Palestinian / Israel topic. I dont know enough about it other than to say i view both the same. Both constantly wrong each other. To pick a side I'd have to look back 2 thousand years.
To me you can not call one side a terrorist without calling both sides terrorists.
It makes little difference to me if the bomb is on someones chest or from an airplane. Dead people are dead people.

Since Iraq had nothing to do with 911, I don't see why it was any more needed to surgically strike them than it is to strike any other country around the world where we disagree with their ways.
What made Iraq different aside from their oil?
They were most certainly not a threat to us. In fact they might of been the least threat from the entire region.
Both sides agree that all the terrorists in Iraq are coming from elsewhere correct?
They were merely the only oil rich nation we had an excuse to invade.

I am also not on Saddam's side. I agree he was a killer and an evil man.
But what made him any different than 2 or 3 dozen other countries around the world where the same thing, if not much worse, takes place.
Why did we not invade Africa instead?

 

[jallman]

Hi John,

You sound like a Libertarian to me.

Libertarians think everyone is a libertarian. LOL

 

[puppyluv]

Hey thanks, I will look more deeply into "Libertarian" views and see what I think.

As for the rest. While it might be similar to my views, i dont think its all that close.
I dont even want to touch the Palestinian / Israel topic. I dont know enough about it other than to say i view both the same. Both constantly wrong each other. To pick a side I'd have to look back 2 thousand years.
To me you can not call one side a terrorist without calling both sides terrorists.
It makes little difference to me if the bomb is on someones chest or from an airplane. Dead people are dead people.

Since Iraq had nothing to do with 911, I don't see why it was any more needed to surgically strike them than it is to strike any other country around the world where we disagree with their ways.
What made Iraq different aside from their oil?
They were most certainly not a threat to us. In fact they might of been the least threat from the entire region.
Both sides agree that all the terrorists in Iraq are coming from elsewhere correct?
They were merely the only oil rich nation we had an excuse to invade.

I am also not on Saddam's side. I agree he was a killer and an evil man.
But what made him any different than 2 or 3 dozen other countries around the world where the same thing, if not much worse, takes place.
Why did we not invade Africa instead?

Saddam's lack of cooperation with UN inspectors, his history of using WMDs on his own citizens, his financial support of Palestinian terrorists, and the fact that he took out a contract on a US President.

The War on Terror was declared on all terrorists, not just those directly connected to 9/11. So the fact that Iraq was not connected to 9/11 is irrelevent. We went after modern WMDs, based on Saddam's lack of cooperation with UN inspectors. We have since found out that he did in fact have money budgeted for WMDs. We just don't know where they are. Most likely, with all the warning we gave him, they are in Syria, or perhaps Iran. But the paper trail leaves no doubt that he *at least* budgeted money for a WMD program. And that money had to go somewhere.

At any rate, this probably belongs in another thread. I look forward to debating with you more.

 

[John1234]

I did not know there was proof he supported Palestinian Terrorists.
But isn't there proof that we support Israeli Terrorists?
I still remember hearing about that American girl that got run down by the bulldozer.
I view both sides in that 2000 year old conflict as equally wrong.

As for the WMD budget, I have not heard that before.
Is there a way for me to confirm that?

As far as defying the UN goes...
How can we possibly cling to that one after we asked the UN for permission to invade them and they said no, then we defy the UN causing billions around the world to lose respect for us.
He defied the UN for some inspectors. We defied them on conquering an entire nation that was at peace.

I realize this is probably not the correct forum for this. So if you respond again i wont continue with it.
To get back to original main topic, Do you have any insight as to which political group i fit when considering the sum total of all my views on the issues?

 

[puppyluv]

I did not know there was proof he supported Palestinian Terrorists.
But isn't there proof that we support Israeli Terrorists?
I still remember hearing about that American girl that got run down by the bulldozer.
I view both sides in that 2000 year old conflict as equally wrong.

As for the WMD budget, I have not heard that before.
Is there a way for me to confirm that?

As far as defying the UN goes...
How can we possibly cling to that one after we asked the UN for permission to invade them and they said no, then we defy the UN causing billions around the world to lose respect for us.
He defied the UN for some inspectors. We defied them on conquering an entire nation that was at peace.

I realize this is probably not the correct forum for this. So if you respond again i wont continue with it.
To get back to original main topic, Do you have any insight as to which political group i fit when considering the sum total of all my views on the issues?

Contrary to a previous post, I am not a Libertarian. Like you, I don't know what I am.

But you do sound like one (a Libertarian). And that is a good thing, IMO. It means you think for yourself.

Saddam took out full-page and half-page ads in Palestinian and other newspapers ASKING for suicide bombers, STATING that he would reimburse their families $25,000.00. This is not rumor, it is fact.

FOXNews.com - Saddam Pays 25K for Palestinian Bombers - Blog | Blogs | Popular Blogs | Video Blogs

Israel Resource Review -- 23rd December, 2002 -- Newsletter about Israel,Palestinians,the Middle East,Jerusalem,Gaza,Netanyahu,Peres,Abu Mazen,Wye,Clinton,Albright,PNC,PLO,Fatah,Hamas and a host of other players on the middle-eastern stage

How do you figure we support Israeli terrorists? Every other nation in the region wants to annihilate them, and only because they exist, not because of anything they've done. Don't take my word for it, ask them. As for the girl that got run over, she could have moved. She chose to die for terrorists. I feel bad for her family, but not for her.

Want more proof? PM me. I don't want mis-direct this thread any more than it has already been. This is a nice site, and I want to follow the rules.

And I also don't want to mislead you, I have serious disagreements with how Bush & CO handled the whole thing. But my disagreements are based on fact, and not media misrepresentations.

 

[Tashah]

An informational message. This particular forum is intended for brief member introductions and community welcome's. This is not the proper forum to discuss ideology or debate ideas in depth. You are cordially welcomed and encouraged to continue such dialogue either via PM or as a dedicated thread in one of the many interesting and diverse forums offered.

ThankQ,
Tashah

 

[1069]

This is my first time visiting a forum in which the forums primary purpose is to debate politics.
Since not long after 911, I have been getting more and more interested in Politics.
After a lot of reading, communicating with people around the world and within America, and some soul searching... I know exactly where i stand on the issues.

But my combination of stances seems to be rather unique and I can not find a political party that i share enough in common with to feel comfortable with.
I don't want to "embrace" being an Independent. Independents have no center, no real party. And they, as a whole, don't seem to stand for anything at all.

This is a brief run down of how i view the most common issues.

Abortion - I am pro Life. However, I do not feel we should have a federal law for it. Instead I would like to see a tremendous amount of resources put into education and adoption type alternatives.
I would like to live in a country where everyone knows abortion is a terrible thing, but accepts that it is sometimes the best choice for the woman AND man to make. I do feel it is 50% the mans choice to make but in cases of disagreement the final decision would be the womans.

Gay Marriage - I am completely against it. And disgusted by the idea that its even a consideration. But if it comes to the point where a compromise must be made, I would have each state decide how they want to handle it.

Freedom of Speech - I am disgusted at the direction our morals have taken in this country. Even within my short life I have noticed a massive change.
In the areas where we are meant to have free speech, we are not using it.
(Censored and biased press with 1 sided cooperate views in a society where if its not on a major network, it simply never happened)
But in areas where our founding fathers never imagined we would go... we cling to freedom of speech as an excuse.
I guarantee you when they amended the constitution for Free Speech that they did not have pictures of transvestites and dildos in mind.
Nor did they have in mind to pump realistic bloody murder scenes into our children 24/7.
I don't have the answer. But people need to forget all this conservative and liberal crap and simply fix it where we are free.
Free to speak and free from all the filth.

Failure of the press - We need a press in this country that tells the truth from the "Human" point of view. Currently we don't have a single "major" news outlet that is not either after manipulation or ratings.
When i was very young i seem to remember that being a news man was an extremely honorable job.
Does anyone have respect for our news anchors of today? I sure don't.

Economics - I believe the Republican plan is just a tool to keep the poor in their place and make the rich richer while eliminating the middle class.
And I believe the Democratic plan is dangerous, creates dependency on the federal government, and in todays times could bankrupt our economy worse than it already is.

War on Terror - What war on terror? All I ever hear about is Iraq. There were no terrorists in Iraq until we destroyed their security.
Even if we did not abandon the war on terror and use it as an excuse for Global Conquest, you dont fight it with guns and bombs.
For every single bomb we dropped, we created hundreds more.
For every hundred thousand we directly or indirectly caused to die, we created two hundred thousand terrorists.
At 911 we had a few thousand hardcore terrorists around the world that intended to hurt us.
After our actions since 911 we now have millions of people around the globe that would like to hurt us.
And to the rest of the world we are now considered the largest threat to global security.
Terrorism is a mind set. Until we learn that it can't be defeated with guns and bombs, it will just continue to grow.
I believe that we need to put out tremendous resources to fight the war on terror.
But you fight it through peace, compromise, education, understanding, good will gestures. You don't fight it by killing.

War in Iraq Specifically -
Fact - There were no terrorists until we invaded and they flooded into the country.
Fact - There were no weapons of mass destruction.
Fact - We killed more Iraqi's in 1 year than Saddam did in 20.
Fact - Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 911 what so ever. Not one shred of proof has ever been offered to the public.

We conquered their country without cause or reason.
I listen to the people going on about the war...
There is no war.
We won the war. Their army surrendered.
What we are doing now is trying to control them.

Look at history... When an invading army takes a new land, the way they control it is through mass killing. And even then there is usually a resistance that lasts for years.
We are evil enough for the initial invasion, but not evil enough to do what is needed to finish the job.

Now that we have destroyed their country and removed their security, we have an obligation to stay.
We wrongfully committed what is to me, the worst sin imaginable.
And now we must fix it the best we can by protecting these people from civil war and fixing their country.
Its the price we pay for being such a sheepish people and believing all the lies told to us by our government.

President Bush - Of course he should be tried for war crimes.
He lied to us. And as a result of the lies, hundreds of thousand of people are dead.
If he killed all of those people with a hatchet, would we even be having a debate if he is guilty?

Finally - I am a Human First. Then a proud American.
Proud of what our country is supposed to be. Not in what it is becoming.
I believe that all people of the world are equal and have equal rights.
From the cooperate big shots that pull our puppet leader's strings, to the people living in African dirt huts, to the Iranians or to whoever.
We are all god's children.

Most Importantly - What matters to me most is being on the side of good.
What i find the most disturbing in all of politics is that i see people claiming to be Christian who rally behind those who want to drop bombs and invade countries.
I can guarantee you that Jesus Christ is not in support of bombing and murder. And especially when the ones we kill did nothing at all to us.
I just can not understand why a person would support global conquest and war for monetary gain and do so under a fake veil of Christianity.
It makes me sick.


In summary - I am a Christian. And as such I believe that the most important reflection on the type people we are is in how we treat OTHERS.
How we manage our own lives is also very important. But its how we treat those outside of our society that truly defines us.
At present, we as a people are failing very badly as Christians.
------
Ok so what am I?
I learn towards the republicans with my in-country moral views.
I am right in the middle with my economic views.
I am right there with the Democrats on Iraq and on our policy abroad.
(Obama was not the only one that was right. I was right long before i heard of him)
But i am very far from the Democrats on internal moral issues.
And I think its quite clear that I am not a Liberal.
I am very much against McCain because to me he has Global Nuclear Warfare written all over him from head to toe.
But i also can't stomache the values of the Liberals.

Seems like i am all over the place. From the far left to the right right and back again.
But to me... all of my views are the way of "good".
Its very important to me to be right and to be on the "good" side.
I will be voting for the Democrat in the general election.
But only because how we treat others is my most important issue.
I don't agree with them on how we treat ourselves.
And i don't actually believe we should pull out of Iraq. Its just that my reasons for staying are opposite from the Republican reason.
Mine is because we have to fix what we broke while theirs is global conquest and god knows what else.

So am i just a freak that stands alone or are their others like me who share my views?

You sound like one of those fundy extremist social conservatives to me.
You'll be in good company here; your presence will make probably an even dozen.

 

[new coup for you]

He also has shades of too-cool-for-school libertarianism

 

[John1234]

He also has shades of too-cool-for-school libertarianism

Could you explain that further?

 

[Edify_Always_In_All_Ways]

He also has shades of too-cool-for-school libertarianism

He doesn't believe in free speech. I think that would exclude him from that ideology, although I'm just guessing.

Mostly, John, you seem confused. You despise the media, but don't know what to do with them. You think the Democrats and Republicans will bring us to economic ruin- so I'm not sure what to tell you. The best thing for you to do would be to get out on the boards, learn what people think and why they think it, and make some choices.

The strangest thing I saw in your posts was Gay Marriage. Most homo-haters (or Libertarians) on here find biblical ways to express their distaste, or leave everything to the states. Why do you hate gays, although you're probably in favor of the colorblind and those with peanut allergies?

 

[John1234]

There is a gigantic difference between "not believing in free speech" and disagreeing with you on the definition and intent of "Free Speech".
If we did not have Free Speech, i would be arrested and shot for some of my views on our Iraqi conquest and this forum would not even exist.

And i am also not a "homo-hater" as you put it.
I am ok with having states make the call on their marriage issue.
There is a difference between being offended by something and hating someone.
Maybe i will elaborate in the proper forum but this is not one of my main issues.

To moderation: Sorry for responding at length again in the wrong forum but i felt my views were being distorted on these 2 points and a correction was necessary.