Time to redo USA. From top to bottom. Redo all labor laws.............

274ina · Aug 11, 2014

The Rebirth of Stakeholder Capitalism? | Robert Reich

"But maybe, in retrospect, shareholder capitalism wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Look at the flat or declining wages of most Americans, their growing economic insecurity, and the abandoned communities that litter the nation.

Then look at the record corporate profits, CEO pay that's soared into the stratosphere, and Wall Street's financial casino (along with its near meltdown in 2008 that imposed collateral damage on most Americans).

You might conclude we went a bit overboard with shareholder capitalism."

Lutherf · Aug 11, 2014

I totally agree. Emotes and customers should really be the driving force behind corporate decisions. Without customers and employees there would be no commerce hence these two factions should hold the majority of the decision making rights. Owners should only be allowed to make decisions regarding their own pay....as determined by the employees and customers

ecofarm · Aug 11, 2014

The effect of a stock market crash on the average American is collateral damage?

PoS · Aug 11, 2014

If you want to redo America right get rid of all entitlements, regulations and income tax, that will enable people to have lots of money to spend and stimulate the economy and eliminate the deficit overnight.

Respecthelect · Aug 11, 2014

The balance of power between worker and owner or worker and management or even between worker and union is not found in government forcing one party or the other (Reich's favorite modality), but rather in the number of parties to the negotiation. When there are few employers and many employees, employers have the power. Why are there fewer employers? Mostly due to government.

How many "compliance" employees should a company be expected to hire? Compliance employees are those who spend their time addressing government regulations. Human resource departments are largely compliance driven. Tax accountants are compliance employees. These employees contribute nothing to the bottom line, other than the company can't afford to run amok with the government's red tape. A small business of ten employees may require two or three strictly to address compliance issues. This cost is in addition to taxes and goes beyond financial concerns. Because all that red tape is painfully consuming. There are constantly government red-tape issues that need to be addressed that make owning and running a business painful.

If Reich really wanted to address the balance of power between workers and "the man," he would do the opposite. He would chide government for pestering business. Especially small business. More businesses mean more power in the hands of employees and is the only solution to the immutable law of supply and demand.

joG · Aug 11, 2014

274ina said:
The Rebirth of Stakeholder Capitalism?*|*Robert Reich

"But maybe, in retrospect, shareholder capitalism wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Look at the flat or declining wages of most Americans, their growing economic insecurity, and the abandoned communities that litter the nation.

Then look at the record corporate profits, CEO pay that's soared into the stratosphere, and Wall Street's financial casino (along with its near meltdown in 2008 that imposed collateral damage on most Americans).

You might conclude we went a bit overboard with shareholder capitalism."

I am not sure that that is persuasive in anything but its simplicity. I saw this morning that real wages in the US have increased 10% since 2000 and a lot more since 1990. True, the lower end of the spectrum increased less. But that was not due to "shareholder capitalism". It was due to the fact that we are allowed to buy things from all over the world. That has reduced the cost of your living considerably and has given a little short of 2 Billion people, who were starving jobs and has allowed them to join the global middle class. Necessarily they competed more with our lower income population, though, they are working their way up the income scale.

Of course we do not all make as much more as we might have, but this is one of the remarkable feats of history. And it was achieved by "shareholder capitalism".

Those 2 Billion people would still be poor, if we had had "stakeholder capitalism" and we would make $4 an hour more and pay double as much for t-shirts.

ARTHUR 1976 · Aug 11, 2014

PoS said:
If you want to redo America right get rid of all entitlements, regulations and income tax, that will enable people to have lots of money to spend and stimulate the economy and eliminate the deficit overnight.

:lamo, Keep dreaming, your ideal place is Somalia..

That Bull**** will never fly here..

DVSentinel · Aug 11, 2014

274ina said:
The Rebirth of Stakeholder Capitalism?*|*Robert Reich

"But maybe, in retrospect, shareholder capitalism wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Look at the flat or declining wages of most Americans, their growing economic insecurity, and the abandoned communities that litter the nation.

Then look at the record corporate profits, CEO pay that's soared into the stratosphere, and Wall Street's financial casino (along with its near meltdown in 2008 that imposed collateral damage on most Americans).

You might conclude we went a bit overboard with shareholder capitalism."

Some might be stupid enough to think that. Others however might see how all those labor laws and other regulations killed a lot of competition and squashed startups from rising to compete against existing corporations. Quality from American workers nose dived while labor and regulatory costs soared. Never mind that they have to hire Tax firms because the tax code is so messed up and not understandable. Also, never mind the ever changing regulatory environment now in the US and the continued cost of trying to meet those changes. Then add in lower cost foreign made products that Americans love to buy at a horrendous pace while ignoring American made products and that even with tariffs, many of the daily products we use can be manufactured and shipped cheaper than a company can produce them in America.

Has profits, as measured in dollar amounts risen? Well duh. If the same amount is now spread over 5 companies instead of 15 companies, those 5 companies will have higher dollar amount profits. But take a look at their profit margins. Those have not radically changed. Exxon-Mobile is under 10%. Walmart under 4%. While your considering jobs, consider that 5 companies will have roughly 1/3 the number of employees as 15 companies in the same market. So as taxes, regulation and labor has reduced the number of companies competing, the number of jobs available has also fallen. Then add in the amount of automation and technology that reduces the number of workers required.

With the quality of service I see from many of the places I have done business with and the quality of product made in the US, I would have to say that those workers are already seriously over-paid. Not to mention the fact that labor rates are competitive. Over abundance of workers available means lower wages.

No. We did not go overboard with "shareholder capitalism", we went overboard with labor unions, taxes and regulation.

LagerHead · Aug 11, 2014

ARTHUR 1976 said:
:lamo, Keep dreaming, your ideal place is Somalia..

That Bull**** will never fly here..

And that argument is not worthy of two third graders bickering over their milk and cookies at break time.

ARTHUR 1976 · Aug 11, 2014

LagerHead said:
And that argument is not worthy of two third graders bickering over their milk and cookies at break time.

That's not an argument it's a fact, your dream world, of no taxes, and regulations, will NEVER exist in the USA, case in point that old kook Rand Paul runs for President every 4 years thanfully will see the grave before he ever sits in the oval office..

That's ok as long as the garbage Libertarians and the Gopers compete with each other it will only help the Democrats, it's all good...

PoS · Aug 11, 2014

ARTHUR 1976 said:
:lamo, Keep dreaming, your ideal place is Somalia..

That Bull**** will never fly here..

Somalia is anarchy- which has nothing to do at all with what Ive described. More typical progressive hogwash.

LagerHead · Aug 11, 2014

ARTHUR 1976 said:
That's not an argument it's a fact, your dream world, of no taxes, and regulations, will NEVER exist in the USA, case in point that old kook Rand Paul runs for President every 4 years thanfully will see the grave before he ever sits in the oval office..

That's ok as long as the garbage Libertarians and the Gopers compete with each other it will only help the Democrats, it's all good...

No, it's a moronic argument based on you misquoting the person to whom you were responding. He said;

PoS said:
If you want to redo America right get rid of all entitlements, regulations and income tax, that will enable people to have lots of money to spend and stimulate the economy and eliminate the deficit overnight.

That leaves at least 95 other taxes that most Americans pay every year.

And your argument basically boils down to, "If we don't have massive amounts of taxes, we will be living in a lawless society ruled by warlords, etc." Bull. It's not black and white.

But I do accept that I could be incorrect. And since you will no doubt say that I am, then it should be absolutely no problem for you to provide rock solid evidence. After all, you said it's a fact. So, please show how eliminating the income tax and getting rid of government entitlements will force the U.S. to be exactly like Somalia.

Henrin · Aug 11, 2014

PoS said:
Somalia is anarchy- which has nothing to do at all with what Ive described. More typical progressive hogwash.

It's more along the lines of competing forces trying to assume control of the region.

PoS · Aug 11, 2014

Henrin said:
It's more along the lines of competing forces trying to assume control of the region.

Which normally occurs during anarchy.

Henrin · Aug 11, 2014

PoS said:
Which normally occurs during anarchy.

In order for a government to be established competing forces have to challenge each other for dominance. That is basically what is happening in Somalia as we speak. It is nothing but a practice to reestablish statism. It is in essence what is necessary to occur for men to rule over other men. I do not consider the beginnings of statism to be anarchy.

Henrin · Aug 11, 2014

ARTHUR 1976 said:
:lamo, Keep dreaming, your ideal place is Somalia..

That Bull**** will never fly here..

Why do you think getting rid of the income tax wouldn't fly here? Do you think people enjoy not getting the wage they were to be paid for their labor?

ARTHUR 1976 · Aug 11, 2014

Henrin said:
Why do you think getting rid of the income tax wouldn't fly here? Do you think people enjoy not getting the wage they were to be paid for their labor?

Try telling that to the IRS, why are you afraid to pay taxes?? do you expect teachers, cops, firefighters, road workers expect to be paid for their labor hard work?? don't you want a solid infrastructure??
Don't you think folks enjoy a social safety net, like UNEMPLOYMENT insurance, public transportation, libraries, or hospitals to get treatment when you don't have health insurance?? GET REAL..
That's why Libertarians have NEVER won a damn thing, because you guys live in fantasy land..

Henrin · Aug 11, 2014

ARTHUR 1976 said:
Try telling that to the IRS, why are you afraid to pay taxes?? do you expect teachers, cops, firefighters, road workers expect to be paid for their labor hard work?? don't you want a solid infrastructure??
Don't you think folks enjoy a social safety net, like UNEMPLOYMENT insurance, public transportation, libraries, or hospitals to get treatment when you don't have health insurance?? GET REAL..
That's why Libertarians have NEVER won a damn thing, because you guys live in fantasy land..

Yes, the income tax allows the government to expand their domain to all aspects of life with less concern over revenues. That doesn't however answer my question. Why would people reject any plan to end the income tax?

DVSentinel · Aug 11, 2014

Henrin said:
Yes, the income tax allows the government to expand their domain to all aspects of life with less concern over revenues. That doesn't however answer my question. Why would people reject any plan to end the income tax?

Because it would decrease available tax revenues to pay for the socialization and enslavement of the rest of America. Some people on welfare might even have to learn and work to support themselves.

DVSentinel · Aug 11, 2014

LagerHead said:
And that argument is not worthy of two third graders bickering over their milk and cookies at break time.

Maybe so, but for some reason a lot of liberals seem to want to use it. Not for sure how exactly they get individual freedom and responsibility to equal anarchy. Must be something to do with whatever makes them stupid enough to be socialist.

beerftw · Aug 12, 2014

274ina said:
The Rebirth of Stakeholder Capitalism?*|*Robert Reich

"But maybe, in retrospect, shareholder capitalism wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Look at the flat or declining wages of most Americans, their growing economic insecurity, and the abandoned communities that litter the nation.

Then look at the record corporate profits, CEO pay that's soared into the stratosphere, and Wall Street's financial casino (along with its near meltdown in 2008 that imposed collateral damage on most Americans).

You might conclude we went a bit overboard with shareholder capitalism."

all this smack you talk about capitalism,maybe you should join a ocialist country like cuba o niorth korea.

it seems your definition of success for capitalism based off your many threads is minimum wage being 50 an hour and everyone making enough to afford 3 luxury cars,a 2 story house a pool etc.you seem to fail to understand simple reality.in most so called non capitalist countries,people stand in lines for bread,and suffer from malnutrition.in much of europe,which people often use as an example of failed american economics,most people making alot more money can only afford a fraction of what americans can.most europeans cant afford a car,only 1 computer and tv,a tiny fridge,barely afford internet etc.

your views on capitalism are false,you seem to assume if heaven on earth isnt offered,its a complete failure,yet you ignore that no other system has ever come closer,and none will until a more efficient system comes into play.

274ina · Aug 12, 2014

joG said:
I am not sure that that is persuasive in anything but its simplicity. I saw this morning that real wages in the US have increased 10% since 2000 and a lot more since 1990. True, the lower end of the spectrum increased less. But that was not due to "shareholder capitalism". It was due to the fact that we are allowed to buy things from all over the world. That has reduced the cost of your living considerably and has given a little short of 2 Billion people, who were starving jobs and has allowed them to join the global middle class. Necessarily they competed more with our lower income population, though, they are working their way up the income scale.

Of course we do not all make as much more as we might have, but this is one of the remarkable feats of history. And it was achieved by "shareholder capitalism".

Those 2 Billion people would still be poor, if we had had "stakeholder capitalism" and we would make $4 an hour more and pay double as much for t-shirts.

aH, THE LIES and propoganda of Free Trade.

An example is Japan And germany, companies are run for the people that work there and the community. Sharholders do not leech everything.

"competing" with slaves is your solution? Well guess what slaves do....................REVOLT.

We dont care about them. Why does a traitor like you care about foreigners?

How do you work up the "income" scale when you have been replaced by a foreign criminal at a meat packing plant when that job paid $20hr and
full Beni's in 1980???????

274ina · Aug 12, 2014

DVSentinel said:
Some might be stupid enough to think that. Others however might see how all those labor laws and other regulations killed a lot of competition and squashed startups from rising to compete against existing corporations. Quality from American workers nose dived while labor and regulatory costs soared. Never mind that they have to hire Tax firms because the tax code is so messed up and not understandable. Also, never mind the ever changing regulatory environment now in the US and the continued cost of trying to meet those changes. Then add in lower cost foreign made products that Americans love to buy at a horrendous pace while ignoring American made products and that even with tariffs, many of the daily products we use can be manufactured and shipped cheaper than a company can produce them in America.

Has profits, as measured in dollar amounts risen? Well duh. If the same amount is now spread over 5 companies instead of 15 companies, those 5 companies will have higher dollar amount profits. But take a look at their profit margins. Those have not radically changed. Exxon-Mobile is under 10%. Walmart under 4%. While your considering jobs, consider that 5 companies will have roughly 1/3 the number of employees as 15 companies in the same market. So as taxes, regulation and labor has reduced the number of companies competing, the number of jobs available has also fallen. Then add in the amount of automation and technology that reduces the number of workers required.

With the quality of service I see from many of the places I have done business with and the quality of product made in the US, I would have to say that those workers are already seriously over-paid. Not to mention the fact that labor rates are competitive. Over abundance of workers available means lower wages.

No. We did not go overboard with "shareholder capitalism", we went overboard with labor unions, taxes and regulation.

How can you blame unions when they dont exist? And have not had a real strike since the 1946 slave act? (even scabs cant get a job at a closed factory too)

how can you blame taxes when the corps dont pay any?

Slaves are always cheaper than wage labor. that is why we fought a civil war to get rid of slaves. Now they are back with Free Trade.

274ina · Aug 12, 2014

beerftw said:
all this smack you talk about capitalism,maybe you should join a ocialist country like cuba o niorth korea.

it seems your definition of success for capitalism based off your many threads is minimum wage being 50 an hour and everyone making enough to afford 3 luxury cars,a 2 story house a pool etc.you seem to fail to understand simple reality.in most so called non capitalist countries,people stand in lines for bread,and suffer from malnutrition.in much of europe,which people often use as an example of failed american economics,most people making alot more money can only afford a fraction of what americans can.most europeans cant afford a car,only 1 computer and tv,a tiny fridge,barely afford internet etc.

your views on capitalism are false,you seem to assume if heaven on earth isnt offered,its a complete failure,yet you ignore that no other system has ever come closer,and none will until a more efficient system comes into play.

More BS exaggeration. All that is wanted is a living wage. $15hr is enough for an apartment, and supplies.

But look at CEO pay. No limit there. $10 million is not enough, they steal MORE wages from the workers to make $100 million. Look in the mirror LMAO!

Europeans get 3 YEARS maternity leave, 2 weeks paid vacation for EVERY JOB. get $21hr at McDonalds. Retraining that leads 100% to a job.
USA is a DUMP compared to all of Europeans.

And every other western nation is "socialist" to the slave master GOP.

So, I ask agian. WHERE IS THE FREE TRADE JOB?

How Youngstown, Ohio became a poster child for post-industrial America

eohrnberger · Aug 12, 2014

274ina said:
The Rebirth of Stakeholder Capitalism?*|*Robert Reich

"But maybe, in retrospect, shareholder capitalism wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Look at the flat or declining wages of most Americans, their growing economic insecurity, and the abandoned communities that litter the nation.

Then look at the record corporate profits, CEO pay that's soared into the stratosphere, and Wall Street's financial casino (along with its near meltdown in 2008 that imposed collateral damage on most Americans).

You might conclude we went a bit overboard with shareholder capitalism."

From what I've heard around town, the tipping point between an employer's market and an employees market is coming pretty fast, especially in the tech sector. If so, then this would at least be a start to re-balancing the wage decline of recent years.

Time to redo USA. From top to bottom. Redo all labor laws.............

274ina

Lutherf

ecofarm

global liberation

PoS

Minister of Love

Respecthelect

joG

ARTHUR 1976

DVSentinel

LagerHead

ARTHUR 1976

PoS

Minister of Love

LagerHead

Henrin

PoS

Minister of Love

Henrin

Henrin

ARTHUR 1976

Henrin

DVSentinel

DVSentinel

beerftw

proud ammosexual

274ina

274ina

274ina

eohrnberger

Time to redo USA. From top to bottom. Redo all labor laws.............

global liberation

Minister of Love

Minister of Love

Minister of Love

proud ammosexual

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