• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Thou shalt not kill

Lafayette

Lafayette

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 13, 2015
Messages
9,594
Reaction score
2,072
Location
France
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
From the Economist: The death penalty is becoming more popular again in America - excerpt:

After declining for years, public support for the death penalty is on the rise; 54% of those surveyed are in favour, compared with 49% two years ago, according to a recent poll by the Pew Research Centre. Death sentences are also a little more frequent than in the recent past, says Robert Dunham of the Death Penalty Information Centre. That may be related to the political rhetoric in Washington. President Donald Trump has proposed executing drug dealers to curb the opioid epidemic.
Click to expand...


Since the death penalty returned to America in 1976, 162 death sentences have been reversed and 1,480 people have been executed, so roughly one in ten was found innocent. Mr Dunham believes that, of those who were executed, at least a dozen were innocent. He cites the case of Carlos DeLuna, who was executed for murder in Texas in 1989 and who is now generally believed to have been convicted in error.

Nonetheless, it may get technically harder for Nebraska to carry out executions. After giving Mr Moore Valium to sedate him and fentanyl to render him unconscious, the executioner administered cisatracurium besylate to paralyse his muscles and potassium chloride to stop his heart. If the first two drugs did not work well, says Eric Berger of the Nebraska College of Law, then Mr Moore would have been in excruciating pain, much like being burned alive from inside. According to eye witnesses, he turned red and purple before the curtain was lowered. If an autopsy reveals that he suffered extreme pain, Nebraska will find it even harder to buy drugs from pharmaceutical firms fearful of the public outcry over their use.
Click to expand...

Thou shalt not kill ... (Period.)
 
Lafayette said:
...
Thou shalt not kill ... (Period.)
Click to expand...
Your argument is a religious moral principle. Are you a religious person?
Even as I type these words there's another active thread to which members are posting like crazy, a thread about the separation of church and state as this idea might pertain to religious statuary in public places.
The new liberal enlightenment has foreclosed on your argument, I'm afraid.
 
Lafayette said:
From the Economist: The death penalty is becoming more popular again in America - excerpt:



Thou shalt not kill ... (Period.)
Click to expand...

Yes the bible has laws against murder.

Yet the bible did call for the removal of people that could not live in society.
rapists, murderers, thieves etc ...

If anyone kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the evidence of witnesses. But no person shall be put to death on the testimony of one witness. Moreover, you shall accept no ransom for the life of a murderer, who is guilty of death, but he shall be put to death.

on rape.

The man was to be killed by stoning while the woman was considered innocent.

But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die.

please know what you are talking about because clearly you do not.
 
ludin said:
Yes the bible has laws against murder.

Yet the bible did call for the removal of people that could not live in society.
rapists, murderers, thieves etc ...

If anyone kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the evidence of witnesses. But no person shall be put to death on the testimony of one witness. Moreover, you shall accept no ransom for the life of a murderer, who is guilty of death, but he shall be put to death.

on rape.

The man was to be killed by stoning while the woman was considered innocent.

But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die.

please know what you are talking about because clearly you do not.
Click to expand...


Heya, Lud… Gonna start by saying this is the Theology forum, so I'm not here to debate you to death, but have a discussion. That disclaimer may not have been necessary, but I don't take anything for granted... ;)

Looks like what you're quoting is old testament....seems very old testament, anyway. Do you think the sacrifice of Christ plays into that at all? First, he died for our sins...second, he conquered death. All so we could live eternal life, through faith in him. If we apply the death penalty, do we not rob the criminal of their chance to repent and find God? Is the death penalty a Christian thing to do?
 
There are a couple problems here. One is that our justice system screws up a lot. There is a law prof that gets a guy off death row every year. He says that if he had the time, he could do that for dozens.

Another problem is that the death penalty doesn't deter any more than life.

It's also expensive, and drug companies don't want to let their drugs be used to murder people. Part of the reason they have stopped allowing that is because it's a thinly disguised torture.

This ain't rocket science. You could make an airtight room and fill it with nitrogen. No muss, no fuss, no pain. But that's not what murderers want to do to murderers.

You could cut the irony with a guillotine.

Know what I mean?
 
OlNate said:
Heya, Lud… Gonna start by saying this is the Theology forum, so I'm not here to debate you to death, but have a discussion. That disclaimer may not have been necessary, but I don't take anything for granted... ;)

Looks like what you're quoting is old testament....seems very old testament, anyway. Do you think the sacrifice of Christ plays into that at all? First, he died for our sins...second, he conquered death. All so we could live eternal life, through faith in him. If we apply the death penalty, do we not rob the criminal of their chance to repent and find God? Is the death penalty a Christian thing to do?
Click to expand...

If you want something more new testament.

https://www.christianheadlines.com/news/did-jesus-support-capital-punishment-11575216.html

https://carm.org/capital-punishment-new-testament

I know this is the theology forum hence why i am quoting biblical scripture to support what i have stated.

As one of the thiefs on the cross with jesus realized that salvation can come at any time.
Jesus acknowledges this fact as well.

Do you not think that God doesn't already know those that will accept Christ?
even people are death row are afforded their last chance of acceptance and redemption there are those that choose and others that do not.

However the bible is very clear that the death penalty is a nessecity at times.

it is also very clear that murder is wrong which is what the commandment is referencing.
 
ludin said:
If you want something more new testament.

https://www.christianheadlines.com/news/did-jesus-support-capital-punishment-11575216.html

https://carm.org/capital-punishment-new-testament

I know this is the theology forum hence why i am quoting biblical scripture to support what i have stated.

As one of the thiefs on the cross with jesus realized that salvation can come at any time.
Jesus acknowledges this fact as well.

Do you not think that God doesn't already know those that will accept Christ?
even people are death row are afforded their last chance of acceptance and redemption there are those that choose and others that do not.

However the bible is very clear that the death penalty is a nessecity at times.

it is also very clear that murder is wrong which is what the commandment is referencing.
Click to expand...


I'll be honest, I struggle with this one. I guess the biggest reason is, as your article states:

There is no place in the New Testament that specifically says that capital punishment is right or wrong.
Click to expand...

Therefore it's all up to interpretation and reading between the lines. Certainly the first article you posted shows that - the author speculated rather freely in some places, beyond where I can go, even with mind wide open.

So, then, the question becomes more about what do we NEED to do...we NEED to be safe from dangerous criminals. Can that be accomplished in less problematic ways than capital punishment, which we really don't have any "New Covenant" guidance on? Sure...we can lock them up for life. Since that's an option, I tend to think it's a better way to go - let death remain in God's hands, while still accomplishing the goal of protecting society from dangerous criminals. While we must follow the laws of the land (so long as they do not go against the laws of God, and even there, we must accept our consequences, not rebel), given the chance to advocate for one or the other, I believe we should advocate for mercy, as that is the loving act, and we are in no uncertain terms called to love.

I know that's kind of a roundabout way of getting to a decision...hehe...and I won't "fight you to the death" if you disagree...hehe... Just chatting. :)
 
OlNate said:
I'll be honest, I struggle with this one. I guess the biggest reason is, as your article states:



Therefore it's all up to interpretation and reading between the lines. Certainly the first article you posted shows that - the author speculated rather freely in some places, beyond where I can go, even with mind wide open.

So, then, the question becomes more about what do we NEED to do...we NEED to be safe from dangerous criminals. Can that be accomplished in less problematic ways than capital punishment, which we really don't have any "New Covenant" guidance on? Sure...we can lock them up for life. Since that's an option, I tend to think it's a better way to go - let death remain in God's hands, while still accomplishing the goal of protecting society from dangerous criminals. While we must follow the laws of the land (so long as they do not go against the laws of God, and even there, we must accept our consequences, not rebel), given the chance to advocate for one or the other, I believe we should advocate for mercy, as that is the loving act, and we are in no uncertain terms called to love.

I know that's kind of a roundabout way of getting to a decision...hehe...and I won't "fight you to the death" if you disagree...hehe... Just chatting. :)
Click to expand...

honestly i think it should be reserved for the worst criminals out there.
these are people that have committed a crime so bad that they themselves have forfeited their life.
 
ludin said:
honestly i think it should be reserved for the worst criminals out there.
these are people that have committed a crime so bad that they themselves have forfeited their life.
Click to expand...

As I said, it's a struggle for me. I tend to agree with you, yet even those Christ can forgive... At the end of the day, whether it's judging or death, I hate doing God's job, as I'm sure not to do it as well as he would.
 
ludin said:
please know what you are talking about because clearly you do not.
Click to expand...

The bible is a VERY OLD BOOK written in another age altogether past and largely forgot.

You are trying to interpret it in a modern context, and that just wont hold water nor even logic.

Humans WANT to believe in a "superior being" because they need to do so. It comforts them ...
 
Lafayette said:
The bible is a VERY OLD BOOK written in another age altogether past and largely forgot.

You are trying to interpret it in a modern context, and that just wont hold water nor even logic.

Humans WANT to believe in a "superior being" because they need to do so. It comforts them ...
Click to expand...

As usual you fail to address the post and all the articles in the post from biblical websites.
 
The Christian God is similar to any other ruler in this regard. He tells you not to kill while he does kill. He does not lead by example. He leads by, "Do as I say, not as I do."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom