• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

This morning Trump declared defacto martial law because of one broken windshield, do you support it?

Do you support martial law?

  • Total voters
    51
jaypatriot said:
The military cannot "take over" local law enforcement unless such local enforcement fails to protect the lives of ICE officers doing their legal jobs of finding and arresting illegal aliens.
Click to expand...
That’s a load of bullshit.

Military should not be taking over law enforcement actions. Y’all wanna squabble about terms but you’re defending the indefensible.
 
jaypatriot said:
Trump would never agree to arresting Newsom or Bass.
He may be crazy, but he's not stupid.
Too risky politically.
Click to expand...

Actually Trump is stupid and poorly educated, has malignant narcissism and likely dementia.

More to the point when your ultimate plan is total control as an authoritarian president in a fascist government "politically risky" should not be a concern.

He's on his way to cancelling mid-terms.
 
Absentglare said:
I get it, he didn’t use the phrase “martial law” so it’s not martial law.
Click to expand...

No - he didn't declate, implement, or attempt to implement martial law, and so it's wrong to claim that he did so.

Absentglare said:
Just like how SCOTUS decided that you can accept bribes as long as you don’t call them bribes.

Trump violates Posse Comitatus and you support it. It’s pretty sick but it is what it is.
Click to expand...

No, I simply don't believe in calling Wolf when it's not a Wolf. There's a dang reason we have that parable, and it's not because that strategy turned out to be a good one for protecting you against wolves.
 
He has no authority to cancel mid-terms.
You are being an alarmist and inflammatory.
Hope you enjoy the spectacle of Trump's birthday parade this Saturday.

Watch out for the sky falling on your head.
 

Attachments

  • chicken little sky falling.webp
    11.6 KB · Views: 0
Absentglare said:
That’s a load of bullshit.

Military should not be taking over law enforcement actions. Y’all wanna squabble about terms but you’re defending the indefensible.
Click to expand...
You really should go read that citation given to you that legally describes what martial law is and isn't.
 
cpwill said:
You really should go read that citation given to you that legally describes what martial law is and isn't.
Click to expand...
Trump sent in the military without permission of state and local leaders.

What do you call it when the military goes in to exert control against the civilian authority? Read your citation. The words are there.
 
Absentglare said:
Trump sent in the military without permission of state and local leaders.
Click to expand...

And he has the authority to do so, and that is also not "Martial Law".

Absentglare said:
What do you call it when the military goes in to exert control against the civilian authority? Read your citation. The words are there.
Click to expand...

I read it. You, apparently, did not - nor have you dealt with me citing to you the exact language of the law and the order, both of which demonstrate that your histrionic claim that this is "martial law" is flatly wrong.


How many times have you seen the normies basically shrug at actual abuses by Trump? How many times have we heard some variation of "yeah, but they said the same thing about Mitt Romney / Russia-Russia-Russia / etc."?

Have you never stopped to think about how Trump's Teflon Don status may be partly due accusations against him being discredited because his opposition staked out rhetorically incendiary but ultimately untrue positions? It allows him (and his defenders) to bundle all the accusations together, and use the discredited status of one or two of them to justify discrediting the others.


And ya'll just... can't.... stop yourselves, can you? You're going to enable him to act like a dictator by accusing everything he does of being dictatorial, until you numb the normie / convincables to the charge, and they ignore it when it happens.
 
jaypatriot said:
He has no authority to cancel mid-terms.
You are being an alarmist and inflammatory.
Hope you enjoy the spectacle of Trump's birthday parade this Saturday.

Watch out for the sky falling on your head.
Click to expand...

He doesn't yet have the authority to cancel mid-terms. LA is a precursor. Trump is just getting started.

No alarmist, but yes the idea of creating a path toward madness and national discord is alarming. Who the hell is going to stop him? Congress? The Supreme Court? Never happen.

Saturday I'll be at the No Kings demonstration where most Americans loyal to democracy should be.

But you go ahead on to the 50 million dollar Trump parade. I read that Trump will be throwing rolls of paper towels to the crowd.
 
cpwill said:
And he has the authority to do so
Click to expand...
No, he doesn't. The US military is barred by the Posse Comitatus Act from engaging in domestic law enforcement functions. Unless there is literally a war taking place on US soil, state approval is required first.

Even Kristi Noem, the DHS secretary, is on record opposing the federal use of National Guard for these types of purposes... oh wait, that was only when Biden was President.

Noem praised Trump for sending National Guard. She opposed it when Biden considered it.

Noem threatened Biden for considering activating the Guard in Texas over governor's objections, but praises Trump for doing it in California.
www.usatoday.com

cpwill said:
Have you never stopped to think about how Trump's Teflon Don status may be partly due accusations against him being discredited.....
Click to expand...
Oh, please. The only people who see these accusations as "discredited" are partisans who would not regard any accusations as legitimate in the first place.

Do you think Dear Leader got off the hook for January 6th because the media hounded him?

Did you really miss the bit where he LITERALLY said that Newsome should be arrested, and his "primary crime is running for governor"?

Do you really not understand that you don't take steps to concentrate as much political power as possible in the Presidency, if you plan to peacefully transfer power to the opposition when they win elections?

The sad truth is that the "normies," as you call them, are barely paying attention to anything more than the price of eggs. Donnie Dictator is exploiting this anomie to seize as much power as possible. And he has no plans to give it up.
 

Huh. Do you think, in retrospect, maybe, concentrating power in the federal government in general and the Executive Branch in particular was a decision that creates real danger, and maybe we ought not have done it?
 
If local authorities will not protect federal workers doing their job then the Trump has no choice but to do their job.
 
cpwill said:
Huh. Do you think, in retrospect, maybe, concentrating power in the federal government in general and the Executive Branch in particular was a decision that creates real danger, and maybe we ought not have done it?
Click to expand...

In retrospect given the current situation I think the Founders may have considered making changes.

If we make it through all this with democracy still intact I'd like to believe that non-radical minds can come to agree on changes that need to be made.
 
Visbek said:
No, he doesn't. The US military is barred by the Posse Comitatus Act from engaging in domestic law enforcement functions
Click to expand...

Yes he does. Again, the order states:

I hereby call into Federal service members and units of the National Guard under 10 U.S.C. 12406 to temporarily protect ICE and other United States Government personnel who are performing Federal functions, including the enforcement of Federal law, and to protect Federal property, at locations where protests against these functions are occurring or are likely to occur based on current threat assessments and planned operations.​


The military has not been ordered to engage in domestic law enforcement functions.


Visbek said:
Unless there is literally a war taking place on US soil, state approval is required first.
Click to expand...

This is also not correct, as the Segregationists found out when the State Guard was federalized over their objections and sent in to enforce federal law.



I mean, if your argument is that Kristi Noem is a massive hypocrite whose opinions on the proper role and extent of state power change dramatically when it's "her" team in charge v when it's the "other" team in charge.....

....yeah. Welcome to most American political commentary today. See, for example: folks like AOC who urged Biden to ignore SCOTUS rulings on things like Student Loans, but who claim to be worried that Trump won't be restrained by SCOTUS today.


Visbek said:
Oh, please. The only people who see these accusations as "discredited" are partisans who would not regard any accusations as legitimate in the first place.
Click to expand...

You don't spend a lot of time with normies, huh?

Trump's conviction resulted in how much of a loss in the polls, again?



Visbek said:
Do you think Dear Leader got off the hook for January 6th because the media hounded him?
Click to expand...

No. I think he got off because of a variety of factors, which include the fact that some of the prosecutions against him were obviously partisanly motivated and built on novel, twisted, legal interpretations, and that harmed the credibility of the prosecutions against him which weren't, because people tend to bundle these sorts of things in their minds.


Visbek said:
Did you really miss the bit where he LITERALLY said that Newsome should be arrested, and his "primary crime is running for governor"?
Click to expand...

Nope. Trump says stupid and destructive things. If he tries to actually do that, it will absolutely be a massive abuse of his power as President, and I do not think he will be forgiven as Lincoln was.

Visbek said:
Do you really not understand that you don't take steps to concentrate as much political power as possible in the Presidency, if you plan to peacefully transfer power to the opposition when they win elections?
Click to expand...

Interesting. Given how much the Left has supported concentrating political power in the Presidency over the past couple of decades, should I take that as an indication that you would support Democrats refusing to peacefully transfer power to the opposition when they win elections?


Visbek said:
The sad truth is that the "normies," as you call them, are barely paying attention
Click to expand...

Exactly. They are going to pay enough attention to get a kind of gut sense of this, put a bumper sticker on it, and generally go back to worrying about stuff in their daily lives.

If that bumper sticker is "The Left Is Making A Bunch Of Hysterical Claims About Trump Again, But They Aren't Accurate", then that's going to be a hell of an obstacle for later opposition to ACTUAL illegal abuse of Presidential power to overcome.


The Left is helping Trump do exactly what you are worried about him doing by making opposition to him look hysterical, violent, and disconnected from reality.
 

The founders designed our system with exactly this sort of challenge in mind. They were well aware of the danger of demagogic leaders seeking authoritarian power, and absolutely paranoid that it could happen here.

We decided to ignore their restraints on government because we wanted the federal government - and the executive branch in particular - to Do More for us. We encouraged norm breaking and rule bending to Get What We Wanted because, well, rules were for squares, and we weren't patient, and worries about the abusive potential of the precedents we were setting were Ridiculous.

And, well, now, Here We Are: the outside of the front door to the lobby that goes to the entrance hallway that leads down to the first floor entrance of the super-stadium of America's "Find Out" phase.
 
Fletch said:
Which 'political opponents' are being targeted here? Pelosi? Schumer? Absentglare? None are mentioned in the link.
Click to expand...

Fletch said:
The link reads as if the mobilization is to protect federal agents and property from attack and violence.
Click to expand...
Indeed. It's clear that some don't like our federal LE/agents and federal property to be protected from the violent antics of rioters, but they sure like it when their team's in the WH.
The libs and their double standards. They are the gift that keeps on giving.
 
Mycroft said:
They aren't.

Haven't you seen the videos? The burning? The attacking ICE with rocks and explosives? There's no California law enforcement to be seen.


No.
Click to expand...

They've all seen them. How they can sit here and pretend there's nothing to see goes beyond the pale. There are so many small businesses that have been looted, their property defaced with anti-ICE hate, graffiti. They've seen the road, a major thoroughfare, route 101 blocked by haters. They've seen chunks of concrete tossed from an overpass aimed to seriously injure LE. They've seen rocks and explosives hurled at every level of LE including ICE agents.

Yeah, they've seen them. They simply have double standards and that's because they won't tolerate a president who is keeping his promises to toughly enforce federal immigration law for the benefit of the country. We know who the authoritarians are, but it isn't this president and those who strongly support the enforcement of immigration law. It's those who try to thwart this president's agenda to fulfill his campaign promises to the country. When planned federal agents raid sites are being doxed, when federal agents are being prevented from doing their jobs by mobs hurling explosives and rocks, when federal property is being threatened, the federal government was lawfully correct to bring in the NG.
 
Last edited:
The obvious solution here is to fire rubber bullets at reporters.
 

Link?
 
Thanks for the reminder!
We are going as well.
 
Oh it’s MY fault, I’M the one enabling him to be a dictator.

You should be outraged that he’s calling it “rebellion” and “insurrection” for people to protest his ICE raids. We have a constitutional right to protest, and he decides to send in the military to enforce domestic law.

He didn’t get congressional nor judicial approval for this. He is dictating that the military be turned against US citizens and you are defending him.
 
The press covering the riots.

 

I’ll go with that. I can’t disagree.
 
Mycroft said:
I think you should look up the definition of terms before you start tossing them around. You can start with "martial law".
Click to expand...
Exactly my thoughts as well, because
"This morning Trump declared defacto martial law because of one broken windshield, do you support it?" doesn't appear to be included in:

Department of Defense Security for the Protection of Department of Homeland Security Functions

MEMORANDUM FOR THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL
www.whitehouse.gov
 
Only republicans are such cowards that, in their absolute terror about immigrant boogeymen, they would give up their rights to a clownish dictator like Trump.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.