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When I had to walk by Christians at my college campus every Wednesday that would yell at people that they're going to hell and holding signs that atheists, gays, lesbians and lascivious women we're going to hell, I didn't assume that they represented even 1% of Christians. Same goes here.So, I've seen some athiests on the forum comment on how they feel athiests are often treated poorly when they make it known they're athiests. While listening to the radio today I heard about something going on in a local city up in the DC Metro area that highlights, a bit, why some people...even not extremely staunch religious people...may have a negative view of athiests.
I disagree. That was a dick move. They shouldn't have done it.The local government has various land around the town that citizens can put in to decorate. For over a decade now apparently one local group has gotten the same spot and put up a nativity scene.
Apparently an athiest group, I believe called "Athiests America" but I can't remember at the moment, waited in line and was first to put in a request, specifically requesting that spot.
And this, I have no issue with. Its apparently a frequently traveled spot during the holidays, in part because its in a good traffic area and in part because people would come for the nativity scene. Still, first come, first serve. Its a LITTLE tactless to specifically try to grab it when you know its a tradition type thing for a group...but that alone I don't think would ruffle too many feathers.
I don't see a problem with the sign. Freedom of speech and expression. It's not really degrading anyone either, anymore than saying merry Christmas to someone is disrespecting Jews and atheists. They're just putting they're viewpoint out there. Again, the only bad move I've seen here is that they took the other peoples spot, legitimately of course, but it was rude nonetheless.However, what they plan on doing is putting a banner there instead durin christmas that states something along the lines of "Celebrate our constitutional right of seperation of church and state".
This is the kind of thing that gives athiests a bad name, and why many people look at the most outspoken of them no differently than the most outspoken of evangelical christians. You specifically try and get a spot that has became a traditional location for a specific decoration. You then take advantage of this spot to put a decidingly political message up during a largely celebrated holiday season, specifically taking a shot at the thing you just replaced.
Now, I understand some Athiests believe Christmas may be "shoving it in their face", however I would say people must also be reasonable about a tradition in this country that is many many decades if not centuries in the making. If people were putting up some huge "Go to christ or you'll burn in hell as a heathen" banner in the middle of July I'd probably say that's a bit tactless as well. However I think you gotta be a bit reasonable in the acceptance of somewhat religious symbols being around in public during the Christmas season.
But what this is doing IS shoving things in peoples face. You're taking a place that has historically been christmas oriented, places that typically people repeatedly go to as tradition during the holiday season, and turning it into not only a political statement but one that mocks the location that its in.
This kind of stuff does not turn anyone away from religion, it doesn't turn anyone on to athiesm, it doesn't promote people to "think" about the notion of religion, it doesn't make people strive for the "seperation of church and state", all it does is turn those that are somewhat in the middle and don't care that much either way to have an increasingly negative view of Athiests, rightly or wrongly.
Sorry, I know this is a bit of a rant, but hearing the news update a few times talking about it just had me shaking my head thinking "what a bunch of jerks"
So, I've seen some athiests on the forum comment on how they feel athiests are often treated poorly when they make it known they're athiests. While listening to the radio today I heard about something going on in a local city up in the DC Metro area that highlights, a bit, why some people...even not extremely staunch religious people...may have a negative view of athiests.
The local government has various land around the town that citizens can put in to decorate. For over a decade now apparently one local group has gotten the same spot and put up a nativity scene.
Apparently an athiest group, I believe called "Athiests America" but I can't remember at the moment, waited in line and was first to put in a request, specifically requesting that spot.
And this, I have no issue with. Its apparently a frequently traveled spot during the holidays, in part because its in a good traffic area and in part because people would come for the nativity scene. Still, first come, first serve. Its a LITTLE tactless to specifically try to grab it when you know its a tradition type thing for a group...but that alone I don't think would ruffle too many feathers.
However, what they plan on doing is putting a banner there instead durin christmas that states something along the lines of "Celebrate our constitutional right of seperation of church and state".
This is the kind of thing that gives athiests a bad name, and why many people look at the most outspoken of them no differently than the most outspoken of evangelical christians. You specifically try and get a spot that has became a traditional location for a specific decoration. You then take advantage of this spot to put a decidingly political message up during a largely celebrated holiday season, specifically taking a shot at the thing you just replaced.
Now, I understand some Athiests believe Christmas may be "shoving it in their face", however I would say people must also be reasonable about a tradition in this country that is many many decades if not centuries in the making. If people were putting up some huge "Go to christ or you'll burn in hell as a heathen" banner in the middle of July I'd probably say that's a bit tactless as well. However I think you gotta be a bit reasonable in the acceptance of somewhat religious symbols being around in public during the Christmas season.
But what this is doing IS shoving things in peoples face. You're taking a place that has historically been christmas oriented, places that typically people repeatedly go to as tradition during the holiday season, and turning it into not only a political statement but one that mocks the location that its in.
This kind of stuff does not turn anyone away from religion, it doesn't turn anyone on to athiesm, it doesn't promote people to "think" about the notion of religion, it doesn't make people strive for the "seperation of church and state", all it does is turn those that are somewhat in the middle and don't care that much either way to have an increasingly negative view of Athiests, rightly or wrongly.
Sorry, I know this is a bit of a rant, but hearing the news update a few times talking about it just had me shaking my head thinking "what a bunch of jerks"
Christians are very insecure with their beliefs or else they wouldn't fear Christianity so much. Glenn Beck is extremely insecure in his beliefs because he fears Obama so much. You're argument makes no sense...Atheists are extremely insecure in there beliefs or they would not fear Christianity so much.
I've never heard an atheist say "those damn Christians actually want me to behave in a good manner and treat others the way I want to be treated?It's no different if you think about it for a minute than the over whelming response to every post about Gays gets here.
It's all about insecurity. I love the argument they use when they say you can't prove Jesus was anything more than a man.
To that I say, you have missed the point. Christmas is about Peace on Earth Good will toward Men. It's the message every bit as much as the Messenger.
You can take the religion out of the discussion and look only at the message, and I defy anyone to tell me what is wrong with the intent of the following: "And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil."
The rest of this doesn't even deserve a response. And I'd say the exact same thing if I saw an atheist spout such nonsense about Christians.These are things everyone can either live by or at least aspire to. And if you oppose them you have serious problems that could require more help than we can doll out here.
Most people fear what they do not understand, and many weak mined people tend to lash out when they are faced with something they don't or can't understand because of limited knowledge on a given subject.
By the way "Separation of Church and State" is no where to be found in the Constitution. It has been ruled that it is there but clearly anyone who can read can see it is not there and the intent is not there either.
Atheists are extremely weak minded and have a built in hate for anything that they do not agree with or understand, and it spills over into Liberal thinking in general as well.
Atheists are extremely insecure in there beliefs or they would not fear Christianity so much.
Councilman said:Atheists are extremely insecure in there beliefs or they would not fear Christianity so much.
To that I say, you have missed the point. Christmas is about Peace on Earth Good will toward Men. It's the message every bit as much as the Messenger.
You can take the religion out of the discussion and look only at the message, and I defy anyone to tell me what is wrong with the intent of the following: "And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation,but deliver us from evil."
By the way "Separation of Church and State" is no where to be found in the Constitution. It has been ruled that it is there but clearly anyone who can read can see it is not there and the intent is not there either.
Atheists are extremely weak minded and have a built in hate for anything that they do not agree with or understand, and it spills over into Liberal thinking in general as well.
if it questions the political efficacy of public spaces in general, then I see some benefit.
with that said, allow me to apologize on behalf of fellow atheists. They can be annoying!
Most people fear what they do not understand, and many weak mined people tend to lash out when they are faced with something they don't or can't understand because of limited knowledge on a given subject.
I'm not athiest, but I am athier than most.Atheist Atheist Atheist. It's bad enough being defined by a word meaning "not something" without theists so frequently misspelling it. AthEIst. NOT AthIEst. Perhaps it's their affinity to living their lives by rules, but in this case the rule of "I before E except after "C" does not apply.
So, I've seen some athiests on the forum comment on how they feel athiests are often treated poorly when they make it known they're athiests. While listening to the radio today I heard about something going on in a local city up in the DC Metro area that highlights, a bit, why some people...even not extremely staunch religious people...may have a negative view of athiests.
The local government has various land around the town that citizens can put in to decorate. For over a decade now apparently one local group has gotten the same spot and put up a nativity scene.
Apparently an athiest group, I believe called "Athiests America" but I can't remember at the moment, waited in line and was first to put in a request, specifically requesting that spot.
And this, I have no issue with. Its apparently a frequently traveled spot during the holidays, in part because its in a good traffic area and in part because people would come for the nativity scene. Still, first come, first serve. Its a LITTLE tactless to specifically try to grab it when you know its a tradition type thing for a group...but that alone I don't think would ruffle too many feathers.
However, what they plan on doing is putting a banner there instead durin christmas that states something along the lines of "Celebrate our constitutional right of seperation of church and state".
This is the kind of thing that gives athiests a bad name, and why many people look at the most outspoken of them no differently than the most outspoken of evangelical christians. You specifically try and get a spot that has became a traditional location for a specific decoration. You then take advantage of this spot to put a decidingly political message up during a largely celebrated holiday season, specifically taking a shot at the thing you just replaced.
Now, I understand some Athiests believe Christmas may be "shoving it in their face", however I would say people must also be reasonable about a tradition in this country that is many many decades if not centuries in the making. If people were putting up some huge "Go to christ or you'll burn in hell as a heathen" banner in the middle of July I'd probably say that's a bit tactless as well. However I think you gotta be a bit reasonable in the acceptance of somewhat religious symbols being around in public during the Christmas season.
But what this is doing IS shoving things in peoples face. You're taking a place that has historically been christmas oriented, places that typically people repeatedly go to as tradition during the holiday season, and turning it into not only a political statement but one that mocks the location that its in.
This kind of stuff does not turn anyone away from religion, it doesn't turn anyone on to athiesm, it doesn't promote people to "think" about the notion of religion, it doesn't make people strive for the "seperation of church and state", all it does is turn those that are somewhat in the middle and don't care that much either way to have an increasingly negative view of Athiests, rightly or wrongly.
Sorry, I know this is a bit of a rant, but hearing the news update a few times talking about it just had me shaking my head thinking "what a bunch of jerks"
Whether you like it or not, something that is wrong is wrong no matter how long it's been going on. Tradition that has been carried out illegally is still illegal. Deal with it.
Whether its wrong or not, a tactless dick move is a tactless dick move.
Whether its wrong or not, a tactless dick move is a tactless dick move.
But to label all atheists for what a single organization of atheists do is just as bad as to label all people of faith for what pedophile religious leaders of one denomination of one religion does. Just as not all people of faith are the same, neither are all atheists.
But to label all atheists for what a single organization of atheists do is just as bad as to label all people of faith for what pedophile religious leaders of one denomination of one religion does. Just as not all people of faith are the same, neither are all atheists.
But I'm specifically NOT labeling all atheists.
You'll note my title itself distinguishes a bit by referencing "reasonable atheists". I talk in my post about how the most outspoken of them look akin to evangelical christians, again making a distinction between all athiests and certain extreme ones. I myself am NOT suggesting these people represent all atheists.
What I am suggesting though that much like a few pedophile catholic priests or terrorist muslims can cause the general overall view of the religion to take a generic hit in the minds of many people, that this is the kind of thing that does the same to atheists. Is it fair? No. Is it logical? No. Is it reasonable? No. Does it happen all the time with any grouping of people? Absolutely.
A while back I had a conversation on the forum about Atheists with a few of the more reasonable ones on the forum who were discussing how horrible it is at times to admit publicly you're an atheist and the kind of reactions you get for it. I was pointing out that actions like this group, while not representative of EVERY atheist, IS the type of thing that shades the average persons over all perception of the view point. A shading very similar to how Catholics are shaded by the pedophile thing, or to show you what I mean by ANY grouping, how some people think NBA players are "thugs" or how young people are "hooligans" and such.
But seriously, look at my post and my title and it should be obvious that I myself am not suggesting in any way this is representative of all atheists.
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