There are no trade "deals"

[Airyaman]

Several times I have said that there are no trade deals from Trump. When people challenge me on that statement, I ask them to point me to the text of such deals. Show me the deals "on paper".

You can't, because the "deals" don't exist. Sure, there are probably some things written down by those involved, but we can't see that because they amount to basically ideas, goals, or a framework at best.

Lutnick, Bessent, and Trump himself have often said the letters sent or even the tariff rates most recently announced are the "trade deals".

So that's really it. The only semi-static and recorded portion of any of these trade deals is the amount of taxes Trump has set against goods and services from foreign companies.

There has been little (none?) talk of ratifying a single trade "deal" in Congress yet.

Because they simply don't exist.

 

[roberthughey]

Several times I have said that there are no trade deals from Trump. When people challenge me on that statement, I ask them to point me to the text of such deals. Show me the deals "on paper".

You can't, because the "deals" don't exist. Sure, there are probably some things written down by those involved, but we can't see that because they amount to basically ideas, goals, or a framework at best.

Lutnick, Bessent, and Trump himself have often said the letters sent or even the tariff rates most recently announced are the "trade deals".

So that's really it. The only semi-static and recorded portion of any of these trade deals is the amount of taxes Trump has set against goods and services from foreign companies.

There has been little (none?) talk of ratifying a single trade "deal" in Congress yet.

Because they simply don't exist.

Didn't read it.

He's calling these countries liars.

Dead stop!

 

[Mycroft]

Several times I have said that there are no trade deals from Trump. When people challenge me on that statement, I ask them to point me to the text of such deals. Show me the deals "on paper".

You can't, because the "deals" don't exist. Sure, there are probably some things written down by those involved, but we can't see that because they amount to basically ideas, goals, or a framework at best.

Lutnick, Bessent, and Trump himself have often said the letters sent or even the tariff rates most recently announced are the "trade deals".

So that's really it. The only semi-static and recorded portion of any of these trade deals is the amount of taxes Trump has set against goods and services from foreign companies.

There has been little (none?) talk of ratifying a single trade "deal" in Congress yet.

Because they simply don't exist.

Who says anything has to be written down?

Who says Congress has to ratify the deals?

Does Congress have to ratify something when Trump places a tariff on a country?

If Trump makes a deal and then removes a tariff, does Congress have to ratify that?

If Von Der Leyen publicly agrees to a deal, announces the terms of the deal and then reneges on the deal...and Trump then puts the tariff back on that country...does none of that actually happen if it's not written down? Especially, if Congress doesn't ratify any of it?

Airyaman, honestly answer those questions and you'll realize just how much a ****ing dumbass Mr. Wolfers is.

 

[Airyaman]

Who says anything has to be written down?

Lololololol.

So now the US is doing handshake deals with no signatures?

You know how absurd that sounds, yes?

Who says Congress has to ratify the deals?

If they are just "Goods from Japan are going to be taxed at 15%" then no.

Well maybe "no", because the current tariff scheme is being challenged in courts and last I looked, Trump doesn't seem to be doing too well.

Are you agreeing with the OP then that the only deals are how much the tariff rates are?

Does Congress have to ratify something when Trump places a tariff on a country?

The courts are currently addressing that one so we'll have to wait and see.

If Trump makes a deal and then removes a tariff, does Congress have to ratify that?

Well then there is no deal, is there? Unless the deal is "goods from country X are 0%" which is what most were before Trump.

If Von Der Leyen publicly agrees to a deal, announces the terms of the deal and then reneges on the deal...and Trump then puts the tariff back on that country...does none of that actually happen if it's not written down? Especially, if Congress doesn't ratify any of it?

Put's tariff back on? It's 15% as part of Trump's determination.

What part will they renege on? They simply said "the EU will invest $600B in no specified time, and buy $750B in US energy and military equipment over 3 years".

What would "reneging" on this part look like?

Airyaman, honestly answer those questions and you'll realize just how much a ****ing dumbass Mr. Wolfers is.

Answered. And no, this thread is not just about Mr. Wolfers. I have said what he is saying for some time now.

These aren't trade "deals", these are political agreements to appease a delusional old man who has been given the power to tax foreign goods on a whim.

Hopefully the courts will slap him down.

 

[Callen]

There are no trade deals just an arbitrary assignment of tariffs and some vague promises by governments on behalf of businesses over which they have no control. Only Congress can sign a trade deal. Some countries are still working on actual deals China, Canada, Mexico are examples.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Who says anything has to be written down?

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Didn't read it.

He's calling these countries liars.

Dead stop!

Pathetic response.

 

[phoenix2020]

Didn't read it.

He's calling these countries liars.

Dead stop!

Wait, who on this site expected you to read something?

 

[phoenix2020]

Airyaman, honestly answer those questions and you'll realize just how much a ****ing dumbass Mr. Wolfers is.

We're still waiting for you to provide your incontrovertible proof of massive 2020 electoral fraud. Until you do, nobody here is answering any of your questions.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Who says anything has to be written down?

Who says Congress has to ratify the deals?

Does Congress have to ratify something when Trump places a tariff on a country?

If Trump makes a deal and then removes a tariff, does Congress have to ratify that?

If Von Der Leyen publicly agrees to a deal, announces the terms of the deal and then reneges on the deal...and Trump then puts the tariff back on that country...does none of that actually happen if it's not written down? Especially, if Congress doesn't ratify any of it?

Airyaman, honestly answer those questions and you'll realize just how much a ****ing dumbass Mr. Wolfers is.

As a practical matter it has to be written down. Trying to do trade deals without any written documents is like trying to build a house without any plans or blueprints. There are just too many details, too many people and organizations involved.

The main problem here though is not how they are conducting the trade talks, or what authority the President has, or how a deal is being enacted and implemented, it’s that Trump is a pathological liar. It seems like most of the time when Trump touts some big deal what really happened is that there were some tentative discussions, but nothing that resulted in any sort of final agreement.

The truth is these trade deals are complicated and take many months, even years to finalize.

The truth is we already had low tariff rates with the vast majority of the countries we are renegotiating with.

The truth is much of the hassle the rest of us are experiencing is a result of Trump’s tariff threats are a consequence of Trump issuing threats to calm down his own nervous system and to make himself look like a big shot.

The truth is Trump is tearing up existing agreements to negotiate agreements that will be similar to the original agreements, and this is all being done so we can pretend Trump is doing something productive.

In the meantime, the American economy will suffer.

 

[bongsaway]

Several times I have said that there are no trade deals from Trump. When people challenge me on that statement, I ask them to point me to the text of such deals. Show me the deals "on paper".

You can't, because the "deals" don't exist. Sure, there are probably some things written down by those involved, but we can't see that because they amount to basically ideas, goals, or a framework at best.

Lutnick, Bessent, and Trump himself have often said the letters sent or even the tariff rates most recently announced are the "trade deals".

So that's really it. The only semi-static and recorded portion of any of these trade deals is the amount of taxes Trump has set against goods and services from foreign companies.

There has been little (none?) talk of ratifying a single trade "deal" in Congress yet.

Because they simply don't exist.

Pathological liar, that's trump.

 

[bongsaway]

Who says anything has to be written down?

Who says Congress has to ratify the deals?

Does Congress have to ratify something when Trump places a tariff on a country?

If Trump makes a deal and then removes a tariff, does Congress have to ratify that?

If Von Der Leyen publicly agrees to a deal, announces the terms of the deal and then reneges on the deal...and Trump then puts the tariff back on that country...does none of that actually happen if it's not written down? Especially, if Congress doesn't ratify any of it?

Airyaman, honestly answer those questions and you'll realize just how much a ****ing dumbass Mr. Wolfers is.

We pay the tariffs, who's the dumbasses?

 

[bongsaway]

Pathetic response.

Trump says so he believes.

 

[BabaVoss]

Who says anything has to be written down?

Who says Congress has to ratify the deals?

Does Congress have to ratify something when Trump places a tariff on a country?

If Trump makes a deal and then removes a tariff, does Congress have to ratify that?

If Von Der Leyen publicly agrees to a deal, announces the terms of the deal and then reneges on the deal...and Trump then puts the tariff back on that country...does none of that actually happen if it's not written down? Especially, if Congress doesn't ratify any of it?

Airyaman, honestly answer those questions and you'll realize just how much a ****ing dumbass Mr. Wolfers is.

Trump lies.
There are no “deals”.
Trump has placed tariffs that are taxes on US importers.
Trump has no ability to “charge” other nations anything, nor are “they” paying the tariffs,
We are the ones paying.

The tariffs are likely illegal, as the law he is using is for ‘emergency’ use. The emergency? That we have trade deficits.
We have had trade deficits for decades. That’s a result or normal trade. Not in any rational way is that an emergency.

 

[aociswundumho]

Free trade doesn't need a government deal, it just needs the idiot state to get out of the way and let consumers buy from whoever they damn well please.

 

[Mycroft]

The main problem here though is not how they are conducting the trade talks, or what authority the President has, or how a deal is being enacted and implemented, it’s that Trump is a pathological liar.

Right.

So, when Trump and another leader both stand in front of the media and announce a deal, is it just Trump who is the "pathological liar"?

 

[Airyaman]

Right.

So, when Trump and another leader both stand in front of the media and announce a deal, is it just Trump who is the "pathological liar"?

No, actually in this case, the foreign leader is likely lying. They have lied to Trump to get a better tariff. The EU was facing a 30% tariff so they made some empty promises and Trump lowered it to 15%.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Technically, these trade deals are recorded... sometimes, just happens to be via Executive Order.

Example:
EO: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presiden...urther-modifying-the-reciprocal-tariff-rates/
"Annex II" https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/2025ReciprocalTariffs_7.31.eo_.pdf
"Fact Sheet" https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-she...further-modifies-the-reciprocal-tariff-rates/

We should all stipulate thou that these rates or conditions can change at anytime not necessarily waiting on some amendment to an EO or a replacement EO. We usually also have to wait several days to see the EO released for viewing even if effective at the point of declaring an EO exists (or is about to exist.)

 

[bongsaway]

Free trade doesn't need a government deal, it just needs the idiot state to get out of the way and let consumers buy from whoever they damn well please.

Our president apparently does not agree with you.

 

[The AntiDonald]

Right.

So, when Trump and another leader both stand in front of the media and announce a deal, is it just Trump who is the "pathological liar"?

The leader of the other country is actually taking advantage of Trump. He's really easy. Say something nice about him and he melts. Many world leaders have taken advantage of Trump. We're not only talking about trade deals. And he doesn't even realize it. Prime example: Bibi Netanyahu.

 

[Mycroft]

No, actually in this case, the foreign leader is likely lying. They have lied to Trump to get a better tariff. The EU was facing a 30% tariff so they made some empty promises and Trump lowered it to 15%.

The leader of the other country is actually taking advantage of Trump. He's really easy. Say something nice about him and he melts. Many world leaders have taken advantage of Trump. We're not only talking about trade deals. And he doesn't even realize it. Prime example: Bibi Netanyahu.

Neither one of you are addressing my question.

Your comments are useless and irrelevant.

 

[Michael Cole]

Right.

So, when Trump and another leader both stand in front of the media and announce a deal, is it just Trump who is the "pathological liar"?

Yes. This is common knowledge.

 

[Mycroft]

Yes. This is common knowledge.

So somehow, when they are both saying the same thing, one is telling the truth and the other one is lying.

LOL!!

 

[Michael Cole]

So somehow, when they are both saying the same thing, one is telling the truth and the other one is lying.

Moving the goalposts?

Make up your mind. You said pathological liar. Only one is a pathological liar. It's common knowledge. Use that MAGA self-proclaimed common sense and figure it out.

LOL!!

I see no humor in moving goalposts in devotion to a pathological liar.

 

[phoenix2020]

Neither one of you are addressing my question.

Your comments are useless and irrelevant.

I think that’s because we are all still waiting for you to answer our questions about your possession of incontrovertible proof of massive 2020 electoral fraud. Once you’ve done so, we can discuss answering your questions.