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The United States is Over

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon
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Now I am sorry for the sensationalist thread title.

I should clarify to say, that I mean the United States as I knew it, is over.

Now I have always been critical of the United States in various ways, especially around Foreign Policy because I thought it could be better, I thought that it could live up to its ideals, the US has been a force for good in the world, but it has also been a source of unbelievable evil and imperialism, BUT I felt that in time, it could shed its darker impulses and be that source of stability, democracy and human rights in the world that eventually, would lead to a better world.

But I always said, that the US success, was our success and whatever criticisms I had, were simply an outsider not trying to tear it down, but thinking simply, it could be better.

But there's a story that kind of, went under the radar with everything else going on:

US state department told to end nearly all its overseas pro-democracy programs

Exclusive: All but two of the programs awarded under the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor would be cut, affecting nearly $1.3bn in grants
www.theguardian.com

Things like this, along with the way this administration is behaving...

And the problem is with Trump, he's done so much wrong it's hard to list it all, it's hard to drill down on any one problem because by the time you do, there's something worse.

But it is extremely clear, extremely clear from Trump, those around him and his own supporters, Democracy, human rights, international peace (don't forget threatening your own allies with annexation) and rule of law, are no longer ideals that matter.

These are no longer ideas and principles that the United States will fight for and progress world wide, those days are over.

The treatment of Migrants, especially, is a prime example of how the United States GOVERNMENT intends to treat those they deem, not human.

It will not end there.


Trumps and those around him, words and actions are not the words and actions of people who have any intention of giving up power...

Their attacks on universities, judges, legal firms, opposition politicians, education...

Again, it's hard to even list everything before we even get into what's about to happen with ICE, now they will have a bigger budget than the FBI and balloon in size, with blatantly unconstitutional military support it seems to terrorize America's streets.

The US as I have known it my whole life and what it has stood for, has ceased to exist as far as I'm concerned.

I doubt I'm alone in that.
 
You aren’t alone that’s for sure
 
The US is falling to the bigotry and racism that has been present since its birth. Unfortunately the better culture is not winning out these last 6 months.
 
It probably is over....unless things get so terrible that the military takes out Trump.

Hitler luckily escaped military assassination several times.
 
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This country's moral authority has always been it's most powerful weapon...at least for the past 80 years and especially since the 1960s and the Civil Rights Movement.

But those days are definitely over.

Trump can deport every illegal immigrant from the country and even deport Americans who are not sufficiently "loyal". He can even kill Americans by eliminating their health care and even by eliminating reliable access to food for millions of poor children.

But none of this makes the U.S. a better, stronger country.
 
We've been couped, and no one did a thing to stop it. Biden had a chance to stall them with his initial plan to raise the Supreme Court to 13 justices but backed off, and then there was the dem's overall failure to read the room last year. What could possibly excite Americans to not vote for the Republicans? If there is anything, I haven't seen it yet. It will probably have to be a radical if anything, and that will just fire up the right, the most corrupt, lying and criminal political party ever in the U.S.
 
The Republican party and Trump and MAGA have taken the United States to a very dark place.

But at least Trump isn't wearing a tan suit.
 
I was so disgusted with Biden and Merrick Garland back in late 2021/early 2022, dragging their feet on Trump and the whole Jan 6 criminal investigation.....the fact is they did everything they could to avoid charging Trump until the Jan 6 Committee forced their hand in the summer of 2022.

Rule #1 for saving a country --- You don't give ****ing traitor insurrectionists like Trump a "second chance". And Germany failed the same way, but at least Hitler went to jail for his coup in the early 1920s.
 
there have been other times in history we were in trouble........we made it
 
tshade said:
there have been other times in history we were in trouble........we made it
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Which times saw the US government give almost total power to the executive branch?
 
I have to hope we can come back. The rich have always gotten theirs and always will, but we can return to decency, intelligence, realpolitik, selflessness, defense of the Constitution, and yes compassion, even if only token expressions of it.

This can't be a permanent surrender to the worst angels of our nature. And if it is, fight it all the way to the end anyway.
 
Lol. Oh the drama. Dramacrats unite!
 
TobyOne said:
Lol. Oh the drama. Dramacrats unite!
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How is it drama? Our Constitution is what makes us great. If we have leadership and courts that no longer hold themselves to the Constitution then we no longer are a Constitutional Republic
 
tshade said:
there have been other times in history we were in trouble........we made it
Click to expand...

My response as well. Without downplaying the actual abuses of the Trump Administration, history did not begin when we became politically aware. People need to read up on Wilson.
 
ClaraD said:
How is it drama? Our Constitution is what makes us great. If we have leadership and courts that no longer hold themselves to the Constitution then we no longer are a Constitutional Republic
Click to expand...

While the President almost certainly sees the Constitution as unfairly and wrongly restraining his ability to exercise power as he sees fit, the latest complaint by progressives on the court has been that the majority has been holding too much to the Constitution. "Narrow Minded" deference to "Pure Textualism" (the idea that judges should enforce the law as written instead of interpreting it to fit preferred conclusions) was the accusation KJB made, I believe.
 

Really, that is what progressives have been arguing?
 
TobyOne said:
What is the proper argument for replying to screaming harpies?
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The OP made a number of points. I did not see any screaming Harpies. If you disagree, and think that his fears are misplaced, tell him why. It seems to me that the Trump administration has taken a number of concrete steps toward creating an immigration police state, and that worries me on many levels. I'm sure that both OP and I would welcome a solid argument against our conclusions. I could really use reassurance these days.

Simply dismissing his concerns is facile and unproductive. If you're here to mock, that's on you. But this is a debate/discussion site. Do you have anything reasoned to offer?
 
Felis Leo said:
Really, that is what progressives have been arguing?
Click to expand...

That's fair. It would be better to say KJB has been making those arguments. Kagan is a lot smarter than that.
 
ClaraD said:
How is it drama? Our Constitution is what makes us great. If we have leadership and courts that no longer hold themselves to the Constitution then we no longer are a Constitutional Republic
Click to expand...
"Our Constitution is what (once made) us great."

Having ignored it over several wars and internal conflicts, used it and abused it, is has become bathroom tissue - no more.

It's a ****ing joke now. How many people deported or in prison without charge???????????

Heavily armed and armored combat equipped US Marines abusing citizens in the streets of LA?

Democracy????????

Are you ****ing crazy??????

You had a democracy and shipped it to the garbage heap at the first chance to "get even" with your imaginary enemies
 

The Constitution is irrevocably damaged and therefore nullified in both the practical and legal sense and with that, the Republic ceases to exist and has been quietly replaced with all but the official pronouncement, which shall not be forthcoming from either Congress or The White House.
Instead it must come from the entire free world, and it must come from the American people who refuse to allow the breach into their lives.

Instead, we must declare our independence from the kingdom just as we did 249 years ago.

AI OVERVIEW

 
LostInSeattle said:
Do you have anything reasoned to offer?
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Sure. The OP was just more of the same Trump hating hyperbolic nonsense that infects every left wing post/thread here. There is no talking the kook fringe left down from their ledge. America is fine. Our democracy is fine. The lunatic left is not.
 
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