The UK inches back towards Europe

[Infinite Chaos]

"On a warm morning earlier this month, a group of Metropolitan Police diplomatic protection officers sat in an anteroom off the ornate entrance hall in London's Lancaster House, sipping tea and nibbling chocolate biscuits, while upstairs a core group of European politicians discussed the future of European cooperation.
--snip--
Is what's coming a "surrender summit" as the Conservatives warn; "the great British sellout" undoing bits of Brexit that Reform UK fear; or "a huge opportunity" the UK may be about to squander, as Liberal Democrats say? Or could it be an example of how, in Sir Keir Starmer's words, "serious pragmatism defeats performative politics" by delivering practical things that will improve people's lives?"

Is Britain really inching back towards the EU?

The summit between the UK and EU on 19 May will be the first since Brexit - the very idea of it has polarised opinions

www.bbc.co.uk

On this subject, I think there's a fine line to be trodden. Reform/UKIP/Brexit Party sold the idea (successfully) that immigrants and the EU are to blame for all the UK's problems, what remains of the Conservatives are petrified of Reform and so take their line and I believe the path of diplomacy and demonstrating economic value is what Starmer needs to show. Generally, people vote along the impact to their pockets and if the economic benefit of closer ties with Europe can be demonstrated, then the public won't react the way Reform want.

The other consideration is military cooperation - Europe needs to seriously ramp up equipment production for Ukraine and this could also include working with the more innovative Ukrainian companies to develop new weapons that would benefit Europe but the NATO is our protection argument is dead under Trump.
Farage is a big Trump fan and would appease Putin (in my opinion) whereas the Conservatives are following the failed argument that we need to look to NATO. It's actually the Conservative Party that shrank our military forces so disastrously so they should not be heeded here.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7930/

I don't think an EU army is the way either - that cuts out Turkey, Australia, Canada and as we are seeing - the smaller nations everywhere need to form new partnerships for military cooperation and benefit.

 

[Rumpelstil]

will they reallly come back?

 

[PeteEU]

will they reallly come back?

Nope. Starmer has a problem as any negotiation will take years, and he needs any deal to happen fast so that the benefits can be felt before the next election. Else the next election will be all about Brexit again.

So how do you get a deal fast.. by agreeing to everything the EU says, which will be fodder for the Tories and The British Nazi Party..err Reform at the next election, especially if the benefits are not seen by the election.

But it also requires that the EU would want to make a deal with the UK, who has been an untrustworthy partner for almost a decade now.

The only thing that might help is the threat of Russia and Trump's America, but again here Starmer is caught between a rock and a hard place... All parties from Trump's America to the EU will require full commitment from the UK, and that will be hard politically for any UK politician due to the delusional effect of being British and thinking that the UK actually matters still.

 

[multivita-man]

"On a warm morning earlier this month, a group of Metropolitan Police diplomatic protection officers sat in an anteroom off the ornate entrance hall in London's Lancaster House, sipping tea and nibbling chocolate biscuits, while upstairs a core group of European politicians discussed the future of European cooperation.
--snip--
Is what's coming a "surrender summit" as the Conservatives warn; "the great British sellout" undoing bits of Brexit that Reform UK fear; or "a huge opportunity" the UK may be about to squander, as Liberal Democrats say? Or could it be an example of how, in Sir Keir Starmer's words, "serious pragmatism defeats performative politics" by delivering practical things that will improve people's lives?"

Is Britain really inching back towards the EU?

The summit between the UK and EU on 19 May will be the first since Brexit - the very idea of it has polarised opinions

www.bbc.co.uk

On this subject, I think there's a fine line to be trodden. Reform/UKIP/Brexit Party sold the idea (successfully) that immigrants and the EU are to blame for all the UK's problems, what remains of the Conservatives are petrified of Reform and so take their line and I believe the path of diplomacy and demonstrating economic value is what Starmer needs to show. Generally, people vote along the impact to their pockets and if the economic benefit of closer ties with Europe can be demonstrated, then the public won't react the way Reform want.

The other consideration is military cooperation - Europe needs to seriously ramp up equipment production for Ukraine and this could also include working with the more innovative Ukrainian companies to develop new weapons that would benefit Europe but the NATO is our protection argument is dead under Trump.
Farage is a big Trump fan and would appease Putin (in my opinion) whereas the Conservatives are following the failed argument that we need to look to NATO. It's actually the Conservative Party that shrank our military forces so disastrously so they should not be heeded here.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7930/

I don't think an EU army is the way either - that cuts out Turkey, Australia, Canada and as we are seeing - the smaller nations everywhere need to form new partnerships for military cooperation and benefit.

The EU does need a more robust military and they need to form strategic economic relationships that don't rely on the US, China, or Russia (any one of them or all of them) too heavily.

 

[PeteEU]

"On a warm morning earlier this month, a group of Metropolitan Police diplomatic protection officers sat in an anteroom off the ornate entrance hall in London's Lancaster House, sipping tea and nibbling chocolate biscuits, while upstairs a core group of European politicians discussed the future of European cooperation.
--snip--
Is what's coming a "surrender summit" as the Conservatives warn; "the great British sellout" undoing bits of Brexit that Reform UK fear; or "a huge opportunity" the UK may be about to squander, as Liberal Democrats say? Or could it be an example of how, in Sir Keir Starmer's words, "serious pragmatism defeats performative politics" by delivering practical things that will improve people's lives?"

Is Britain really inching back towards the EU?

The summit between the UK and EU on 19 May will be the first since Brexit - the very idea of it has polarised opinions

www.bbc.co.uk

On this subject, I think there's a fine line to be trodden. Reform/UKIP/Brexit Party sold the idea (successfully) that immigrants and the EU are to blame for all the UK's problems, what remains of the Conservatives are petrified of Reform and so take their line and I believe the path of diplomacy and demonstrating economic value is what Starmer needs to show. Generally, people vote along the impact to their pockets and if the economic benefit of closer ties with Europe can be demonstrated, then the public won't react the way Reform want.

The other consideration is military cooperation - Europe needs to seriously ramp up equipment production for Ukraine and this could also include working with the more innovative Ukrainian companies to develop new weapons that would benefit Europe but the NATO is our protection argument is dead under Trump.
Farage is a big Trump fan and would appease Putin (in my opinion) whereas the Conservatives are following the failed argument that we need to look to NATO. It's actually the Conservative Party that shrank our military forces so disastrously so they should not be heeded here.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7930/

I don't think an EU army is the way either - that cuts out Turkey, Australia, Canada and as we are seeing - the smaller nations everywhere need to form new partnerships for military cooperation and benefit.

As I wrote above.. the time factor is a problem.

The "immigrant" factor is/will still be near the top of the political debate even in 4 years, regardless if net migration is way down. All Reform and the Tories have to do is point out that London ain't white anymore.. and that will pull votes towards them. True or not. It is the only way both parties can maintain a following because it is easier to point out and blame the brown man, than come with actual policies that will help the British people.

Using the "more military cooperation" is also a big uncertainty due to Trump's America being all over the place politically depending on what type of day Dementia Don has.

Another factor is the usual right wing British bs about the French and Germans and it being a problem cooperating with them..because of what happened 80+ years ago.

All this has to be solved and gave a positive outcome in 3 years..ain't gonna happen.

 

[PeteEU]

The EU does need a more robust military and they need to form strategic economic relationships that don't rely on the US, China, or Russia (any one of them or all of them) too heavily.

Yes a stronger military relationship outside of NATO ( the US), but economically the EU is the second biggest market on the planet...sure they need to strengthen that, but we are no slouch either and don't rely on the US and the reliance on China is the same one the US has. As for Russia..what reliance? If you talking about gas 5 years ago, which was not a reliance then either..then a reality check is needed. Europe does not have vast fossil fuel deposits..so we have to get it from somewhere.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

will they reallly come back?

No, but I'm certain some form of accomodation will be found.

So how do you get a deal fast.. by agreeing to everything the EU says, which will be fodder for the Tories and The British Nazi Party..err Reform at the next election, especially if the benefits are not seen by the election.

But it also requires that the EU would want to make a deal with the UK, who has been an untrustworthy partner for almost a decade now.

The only thing that might help is the threat of Russia and Trump's America, but again here Starmer is caught between a rock and a hard place... All parties from Trump's America to the EU will require full commitment from the UK, and that will be hard politically for any UK politician due to the delusional effect of being British and thinking that the UK actually matters still.

I don't think it will be a case of the EU forcing a bad deal on the UK, just not worth it unless the EU wants a Nigel Farage barking on their doorstep and promoting every anti-EU/pro-Putin politician in Europe. That's the other side of the coin isn't it?
If the EU asks for something that promotes an anti-EU reaction, you'll end up with an EU facing parties led by Wilders / Le Pen / Wiedel etc etc being given all kinds of centre stage by Farage.

The EU does need a more robust military

I'm torn on this, NATO relied on everyone working to a US beat but an EU army could end up with a "herding cats" scenario as each country would be posturing to show their importance to their own population. Some form of NATO without the "North Atlantic" only focus.

 

[Godric1970]

will they reallly come back?

scotland will, can't see the rest of the uk as starmer and labour are trying to parrot farage's reform party

 

[joluoto]

Right now the EU doesn't want the UK back, because Brexit has not been politically solved in the UK. Only when the major political parties in the UK agrees that they want to rejoin, will the EU even consider it.