Your experts are not medical experts. Look at the windmills built in the last year on I 65 in Indiana they are on farms close to houses. No problem is solved.
You are opposed to improved economy, jobs and a stable climate. Got it!
Are you able to defend this position???
1 - How does giving up oil improve the economy?
2 - Can you explain how this will be achieved?
3 - Can you offer a precedence where such an activity offered a verifiable economic improvement??
4 - Can you tell me a 'green job' that wouldn't ultimately replace already existing jobs, if not several jobs lost for the one gain? If so can you offer a precedence of this working?
5 - How do you intend to maintain the climate at the ideal temperature using only CO2??? (Unless you're talking about domed cities I don't quite see this as feasible)
And medical doctors are not experts on sound. If they are bothered by the wind turbines, I suggest they move and if the claim of the doctor turns out to be true, they can sue for damages.
It is touching that you have such great concern over the unproven effect of living in close proximity to wind farms based on unconfirmed science, yet none for the health dangers of AGW for which there is decades of scientific consensus. :roll:
I don't suppose you see the irony in that at all do you?
1. Every year oil gets more expensive, we are spending approx. $6 per gallon presently when you add in the cost of the ME wars necessary keep our addiction satisfied in the future. We spend hundreds of billions in the ME annually that could be invested in this country. And that doesn't even count the failures our economy will experience from the future affects of AGW.
You need to do some more reading. We are doing 2% now. And last time I looked China is bigger than the US and they are now leading the world in alternative technology. You will also learn, if you actually read, that we produce more CO2 than China. Do a little research before you start popping out posts that show ignorance of the subject.
Do you have any idea where we get our oil ????
Hint: A very small percentage comes from the middle east.
Yep, that was what the Iraq war sought to fix. See the Cheney's ETF prior to our invasion and occupation of Iraq. The oil executives state that a more stable government needs to be put in place in Iraq that would end the 35 year lock out of Western oil in Iraq. They further state the politicians statements that we can domestically drill our way out of this problem is just not true.
It was all about readmitting Western oil to the 2nd largest, most pure, and most easily accessible oil reserves on the planet.
Your the one that needs to do more reading.....
United States electrical production from:
wind: 35.2 gw
solar: 12 gw
China's electrical production from:
wind: 26 gw
solar: 1 gw
Now reread my quote you posted and you will see that I said that China was leading the world in alternative technology[/B, I didn't say they were producing more that us.
"Although the Chinese lead in investment by a significant margin, the real story here is investment as a percentage of GDP. As a gauge of relative importance, it is clear that the Chinese place a significant premium on renewable energy investment compared with other countries."
China leads the world in renewable energy investment | Tableau Software
catawba said:You need to look at what other countries are doing to understand the potential, the US is falling behind.
"The huge success of this renewable power source – wind farm technology accounts for one-fifth of total electricity generated in Denmark – is attributed to a streamlining of administration between government and grid providers, including a deal which allows the general public to purchase shares in wind farms and turbines built near their communities.
Ptif219 said:Will not work here we are much bigger than Denmark from reports I have seen the best we could hope for nationally would be 2%.
Catawba said:You need to do some more reading. We are doing 2% now. And last time I looked China is bigger than the US and they are now leading the world in alternative technology. You will also learn, if you actually read, that we produce more CO2 than China. Do a little research before you start popping out posts that show ignorance of the subject.
Why would we need Iraq's oil if we already get all we need from other countries in North America and from our own production ????
By the way, great job at not attempting to address my post.
As you can see, the original comment was that Denmark electrical generation was 20%, while ours is only 2%. Obviously, the 2% refers to electrical generation, NOT component manufacture.
And.......... China IS the world's largest emitter of CO2.
China: 22.3 mt
U.S.: 19.9 mt
Why would we need Iraq's oil if we already get all we need from other countries in North America and from our own production ????
1. Every year oil gets more expensive,
we are spending approx. $6 per gallon presently when you add in the cost of the ME wars necessary keep our addiction satisfied in the future.
We spend hundreds of billions in the ME annually that could be invested in this country.
And that doesn't even count the failures our economy will experience from the future affects of AGW.
2. We need, as quickly as possible, to transition to renewable energy, increase efficiency including the CAFE standards, provide tax credits for R&D and building with alternative energy. Basically, pick up where we left off before Reagan scrapped these programs and said to party like it was 1954.
3. Yes, we've faced the same situation every year since 1971 when we passed peak oil in this country. We have just been too ignorant to act on it for almost 40 years and counting now.
4. All jobs that rely on fossil fuels are in jeopardy in the future due to the ever increasing cost of a diminishing resource. If there is to be a future economy, transitioning to renewables is not an option.
5. I haven't heard of anyone suggesting we maintain the temperature using only CO2. What the scientists have advocated is to lower our CO2 output by burning less fossil fuels and stop cutting down rainforests that can sequester some of the CO2, in hopes of averting the Global warming tipping point, at which point it is too late to act and we have condemned future generation to a grim existence.
Do you have any idea where we get our oil ????
Hint: A very small percentage comes from the middle east.
I addressed your post by showing you the Iraq war wasn't about where we get our oil today, it was to expand our "future" availability of affordable oil as the world approaches peak oil, and I provided the source for my response, Cheney's ETF.
And medical doctors are not experts on sound. If they are bothered by the wind turbines, I suggest they move and if the claim of the doctor turns out to be true, they can sue for damages.
It is touching that you have such great concern over the unproven effect of living in close proximity to wind farms based on unconfirmed science, yet none for the health dangers of AGW for which there is decades of scientific consensus. :roll:
I don't suppose you see the irony in that at all do you?
Well, the price is dependent mainly on 'supply and demand'... by supply I mean REFINED supply.
If you're talking about Iraq, that war actually SHUT OFF the majority of oil production in that country, and was a factor in why the price jumped to nearly 150$ / barrel.
Don't forget; oil is run by a CARTEL... and the reality is because they control the supply (ie refineries) they can effectively demand the price that they want. Oh, and we could stop those wars in the middle east over control of oil TODAY, reopen Alaska to drilling and effectively replace that oil.
Again, I gotta point you to what the movers and shakers of the world are saying... the problem is NOT that we don't have the money to food, clothe and shelter every human on earth, it's that these humanitarian ventures do NOT COST ENOUGH to be viable. There's vastly more PROFITS to be made through war then there EVER will be through peace. Though, I do agree with you.
Individually, yes, it's nothing but a good thing to :
- INstall solar panelling
- use energy efficient appliances
- Drive a hybrid
- install geothermal heating
- etc...
BUT : because these artificially created 'green jobs' actually COST JOBS that just proves that this switch over is still not economically viable, and that's why every green venture ever proposed (beyond tax breaks for investing in energy efficiency) has been abject failure. Just look at the untold deaths from starvation caused by ethanols.
I was asking if you could offer a precedence where acting on 'green initiatives' has generated economic growth, since that seems to be a premise you're working on...
It'd be a bit more accurate to say 'all jobs' are in jeopardy if we ran out of oil...
though I haven't specifically sourced this, you could add that because of robotics and automation among other similar advancements
That said... you'll brush this off because it's my 'theory' that there are people like Bill Gates and Ted Turner getting together with other leaders of industry, politics and academia that might be able to create change in society, and are actively making plans for society that stretch out sometimes as far as 50 years into the future.
You said 'stable climate'... and since you also claim that "Co2 drives climate" I was hoping that you'd have something concrete where you could say "ok, if we keep CO2 at X ppm we can maintain the climate at a stable temperature indefinately."
I was hoping you'd realize how asinine it is to claim that CO2 drives climate when you really think about this, but you've clearly fallen prey to this propaganda.a
Every time ptif talks about noisy windmills taking up farmland, I refer him to the UK's solution:
Iraq is still a part of OPEC, we did not gain any control over the mid east oil production from the iraq war.
So don't shut down the source but make the people leave their home. So GW is more important than peoples rights.
Earlier I referenced Cheney's ETF Report where they spell out a plan to deal with Peak oil in the world. Previously, you have denied the concept of peak oil so I have provided further authoritative support for Peak Oil and what it will mean.
Unless you consider the US military to also be part of the world wide conspiracy, I am interested in your response to their warning regarding peak oil:
"The US military has warned that surplus oil production capacity could disappear within two years and there could be serious shortages by 2015 with a significant economic and political impact.
The energy crisis outlined in a Joint Operating Environment report from the US Joint Forces Command, comes as the price of petrol in Britain reaches record levels and the cost of crude is predicted to soon top $100 a barrel.
"By 2012, surplus oil production capacity could entirely disappear, and as early as 2015, the shortfall in output could reach nearly 10 million barrels per day," says the report, which has a foreword by a senior commander, General James N Mattis.
It adds: "While it is difficult to predict precisely what economic, political, and strategic effects such a shortfall might produce, it surely would reduce the prospects for growth in both the developing and developed worlds. Such an economic slowdown would exacerbate other unresolved tensions, push fragile and failing states further down the path toward collapse, and perhaps have serious economic impact on both China and India."
The US military says its views cannot be taken as US government policy but admits they are meant to provide the Joint Forces with "an intellectual foundation upon which we will construct the concept to guide out future force developments."
The warning is the latest in a series from around the world that has turned peak oil – the moment when demand exceeds supply – from a distant threat to a more immediate risk."
US military warns oil output may dip causing massive shortages by 2015 | Business | The Guardian
This is no where near the research to establish this as fact, as there has been with AGW which will affect everyone on the planet.
Yet you are acting like it is fact. Even AGW is full of lies and deceptions which you try to justify
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