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128shot said:I think we should reform WTO, so governments have to meet x criteria in order to be in.
Consumers should take stand for what they think is ethical otherwise-taxing isn't going to do crap but hurt all of us. Its a consumer choice first. Vote with your dollars.
I think we should reform WTO, so governments have to meet x criteria in order to be in.
and/or forceing multinationals to produce reports on the enviromental, econominc and social effects of there actions overseas.
oldreliable67 said:"ethically" produced goods...
Who gets to define "ethically"??
128shot said:Actually Kelzie, if we got rid of the labor manipulation problems in places like China, things would change fast,
BTW that's the idea of new things on WTO law...
Red_Dave said:Another point i missed out about consumer choice that i missed out about consumer choice is that if your in a suitiation where one company has ended up with a monopoly there is no consumer choice attal. A good example of this is microsoft, if i want to buy ethically produced computer drives im stuffed cause the only choice ive got is between microsoft and apple, both of which are likely to be made in unsatisfactory conditions.
dam my spelling:dohngdawg said:Oops...saw the thread title and thought it'd be a debate about candy.....:mrgreen:
Red_Dave said:agree on the w.t.o [now theres a first]. It needs to be made more democratic as well.
Problem with consumer choice is that often there is no way of working out where a product comes from when buying it. All you tend to get is the country it came from. I buy from online buissnesses that specialise in fairly traded products but when it comes to things like shoes you dont know whether they will fit so cant buy them online. cigarates are a bitch as well. This means that consumers are left with little choice bit to buy unethically. Therefore by implementing tax policys that help the ethical compaines you are giving them more choice. Tax is no bad thing in my view anyway as it means more money for public services. i imagine a tax on unethical companies wouldnt be to damageing to the economy because the growth in unethical companys would make up for it. That said if cutting taxes is beneficial than surely cutting the vat on ethical products would be a good thing
Red_Dave said:Another point i missed out about consumer choice that i missed out about consumer choice is that if your in a suitiation where one company has ended up with a monopoly there is no consumer choice attal. A good example of this is microsoft, if i want to buy ethically produced computer drives im stuffed cause the only choice ive got is between microsoft and apple, both of which are likely to be made in unsatisfactory conditions.
Kelzie said:Okay, here's my solution. Never gonna happen, but none the less...
All companies must pay their workers living wages. That's it. Not the American minimum wage, just what is needed to support yourself and a family in your country. This would allow a couple things. First, children would be able to go to school instead of being sent to work to help support the family. I don't think I need to explain the benefits of that. Second, if both parents worked, the extra money (still probably not a lot in US terms) could be used to improve their living conditions, or to save up to send their kids to college. Living wages in addition to safe working conditions. Not too much to ask in my opinion.
If a country will not do these things, they are not allowed to trade in or with the US. As simple as that. The US accounts for such a large percentage of world trade, that every company would reform. In addition, I'd be willing to bet that Western Europe would climb on board with the demands.
A committee would be set up to determine both the living wage in the country and if the companies are following the rules. I realize this calls for additional bureaucracy, but I don't think it would be that bad, considering how much bureaucracy we already have.
Employee_of_the_Month said:Whenever the wages get higher for the majority of people, the prices get higher because the capitalists are like the Hungry Hungry Hippos and the more money they see thats in the atmosphere the more they are going to try to gobble up, and your rent will go up and your gas will go up, and the price of your everything will just go up.
Red_Dave said:Well to implement such a tax or cut remove you would have to pass a bill through the legislature of whatever country your in defining a criteria a company must fufill to be defined as ethical . If the government passing it is democratic that would be fully legitimate in my view
Kelzie said:I doubt wages in the industrialized countries will go up. It might not be pleasant, but you can live off the minimum wage here. I'm talking about making sure people every where can live off of what they earn at work.
oldreliable67 said:One would have to repeal econ 101 for both wages and the general price level to not go up. You're suggesting adding a whole new layer of bureacracy in every country that produces goods for export. Plus a whole new level of cost in every company that manufactures goods. A very large upward shift in the cost curve.
Remember the experience with wage and price controls under Nixon? Not good. What you're proposing would be even worse, IMO.
128shot said:Consumers should take stand for what they think is ethical otherwise-taxing isn't going to do crap but hurt all of us. Its a consumer choice first. Vote with your dollars.
kelzie said:Why should people in other countries watch their children starve to death and face injury every time they go to work when we wouldn't stand for it here?
oldreliable67 said:They shouldn't. But saying that they do is quite a large assumption and a huge generalization. In fact, in many of the so-called sweat shops, the folks working there are experiencing quite a nice increase in their standard of living - the fact is that for many of them, they've gone from nothing to something, even if that something ain't much by US standards. Are we to deny them that opportunty?
BTW, its after 1:00 a.m. here in DC. Why are you still up and about? Oops, wait, just remembered...Colorado, is it?
kelzie said:Why should people in other countries watch their children starve to death and face injury every time they go to work when we wouldn't stand for it here?
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