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The State of Michigan has silenced Flint

Celebrity

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In an ongoing crisis involving tainted water, Flint, MI has been effectively silenced as a political entity. The city must now get approval from the state in order to sue the state.

I don't think the state will allow Flint to sue, but do they really have to? At this point, shouldn't the humanitarian crisis aspect take over?

Even if the state does fix the problem, will Flint be able to sue if they do a poor job? This is not clear in the article, however it does mention that a statute of limitations on the notice of intent to sue might not hold up in court.



After court threat, state of Michigan removed Flint's power to sue
 

Welcome to America. Oh you're poor? Your rights are theoretical. If you'd just be rich for a moment, your rights could become actual.
 
FieldTheorist said:
Welcome to America. Oh you're poor? Your rights are theoretical. If you'd just be rich for a moment, your rights could become actual.
Click to expand...

True, but this is not just "poor," and "rich," this is political. Michigan is a political space.
 
Celebrity said:
True, but this is not just "poor," and "rich," this is political. Michigan is a political space.
Click to expand...

Politics is 100% about poor and rich, depending upon how broadly you interpret those words. That being said, I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to make by calling Michigan a "political space." Could you clarify what you mean?
 
FieldTheorist said:
Politics is 100% about poor and rich, depending upon how broadly you interpret those words. That being said, I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to make by calling Michigan a "political space." Could you clarify what you mean?
Click to expand...

I don't think that Flint is 100% poor people, at any given time, as part of Michigan. Flint might be poorer than other cities. We should measure how poor two cities are based on economic data. We can measure how poor a city is per capita, by income, relative to some benchmark.

If there's a middle class in Flint, and I think there is, then they are not "rich." Then we could divide the city into groups of "rich" and "not rich."

So if Flint is 100% poor people, then your simple statement might be right, but if Flint has fewer rights because they are significantly more poor, then shouldn't the upper class have more rights than the middle class have more rights than the lower class? I'm sure that high culture involves buying rights. Maybe it's just a dirty little secret rich people have to take care of once in a while, while they could be out yachting instead. So, there's a difference between who has many rights and who does not, and who has rights and who does not.

Do rich people simply have all the rights that poor people don't have, or does any citizen have rights according to what economic class they are in? I prefer the latter, because I don't like the social mobility structure of the former. It would be nice to not have to choose between the two, but it is the reality that we live in.

Remember that article, Congress Doesn't Care What You Think?

Well, for the average citizen that means awarding no citizen special privilege. Upon review of the study, I found that this is not as fair as it seems at first blush.
 

1.) Of course the rich have more "rights" (and by that I, of course, mean privileges). Do you think wealthy or even solidly middle-class neighborhoods have to worry about having lead contaminated pipes? I mean, let's take your own article that you present, we know for a fact that the rich have far, far more access to the government's ear. That's a privilege the poor doesn't have.

2.) I'm talking about really-existing America, not the America that we would one day like to have.
 

I have to agree with that analysis, and yet, I would still like to believe that the poor have some rights. Like due process, for example.

Even poor people are very patriotic. It's very sad when our country lets them down again, and again.
 
Celebrity said:
True, but this is not just "poor," and "rich," this is political. Michigan is a political space.
Click to expand...

And since the voters in Michigan who reside in Flint did NOT support the Republican Governor, the Republican candidates for State House or State Senate - they end up on the short end of the stick.
 
haymarket said:
And since the voters in Michigan who reside in Flint did NOT support the Republican Governor, the Republican candidates for State House or State Senate - they end up on the short end of the stick.
Click to expand...

They ended up on the end of the stick they voted for since Flint's leadership had turned the city into a colossal cesspool of failure long before Snyder came along
 

Per Capita Income for Flint Michigan 2014

US $28,889
Michigan $26,613
Flint $23,253
Click to expand...

Flint Michigan Household Income | Department of Numbers

Not great at all, Flint.
 
"to ensure that they maintain fiscal and organizational stability"

that doesn't sound like what the board is attempting here, but rather to cover for snyder, their real master

frankly throwing the state's budget in disarray, which one of the politicians fears, would be appropriate in this case. "All we have done for flint," yeah like poison them
 
Stopandthink said:
They ended up on the end of the stick they voted for since Flint's leadership had turned the city into a colossal cesspool of failure long before Snyder came along
Click to expand...

What decisions and policies did the Flint leadership pursue and follow that had the results you claim they are responsible for?
 
FieldTheorist said:
Welcome to America. Oh you're poor? Your rights are theoretical. If you'd just be rich for a moment, your rights could become actual.
Click to expand...

FieldTheorist said:
Politics is 100% about poor and rich, depending upon how broadly you interpret those words. That being said, I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to make by calling Michigan a "political space." Could you clarify what you mean?
Click to expand...


You appear to be trying to derail the thread topic.
 
Neomalthusian said:
You appear to be trying to derail the thread topic.
Click to expand...

Just adding commentary. You wasting time posting about it on the thread that I haven't posted on in a day or two, however, is much more likely to derail the thread.
 

I sked for evidence that it was Flint politicians who made decisions that doomed the city before Snyder came along - and you tell me about Wayne County!?!?!?!?!

Do even realize that Flint is NOT IN WAYNE COUNTY and is over an hour away? Your response makes no sense at all.

Try again - if you are able - and this time stick to Flint.
 

Whoops my bad, I have a bunch of resources and pasted the wrong ones. ( even though the storylines are remarkable in similarity)

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/10/us/for-flint-mich-takeover-adds-to-the-list-of-woes.html

The Democrats’ Filthy Flint Water | Frontpage Mag
 

The NY Times article says nothing about decisions Flint leaders made to cause the economic downfall of their city.

Th Frontpage article is from a far right wing attack rag that has no credibility and openly ignores decades of economic woes that hit the city causing the economic and political environment that Flint found itself in in recent years.

I would strongly urge you to educate yourself on the issue. This will help

Time line: How Flint's water crisis unfolded - Detroit Free Press

and this clearly shows the State control seriously compounded the resolution of any problem

Flint Water Crisis: A Step-By-Step Look At What Happened : The Two-Way : NPR

Please note that the decision to replace the Water system and the State Emergency Manager were events that took place well in advance of March 2013 7-1 council vote you cited as your evidence.

So what were these so called decisions that Flint leaders made that doomed the city long before Snyder came along?
 
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This article contains much information about the report laying blame for the crisis mostly at the feet of the State of Michigan - which Governor Snyder is the head of.

Flint Water Task Force Findings: Michigan DEQ, Emergency Managers, Rick Snyder Criticized - The Atlantic

 
This is from the Executive Summary of findings in the 166 page report that reported to the Governor:


This is from the people that Snyder appointed to investigate. They assigned most of the blame to the State and he as head of the executive branch as well as the emergency manager and the inherent conflict in such a position as it destroys local government.
 
The rich and the poor have the same rights, the poor just have no power to enforce them.
 

Then you didn't read the article--
"But the city bears much blame for its condition because it did not adjust to its rapidly declining tax base and curb spending, city officials and residents said."
This was in a government takeover in 2002. Leadership fought against all the imposed budget cuts at that time and GUESS WHAT they continued to run huge deficits and GOLLY GEE wouldn't you know they run into a default again 12 years later. How could anyone ever have seen it coming???? FAIL FAIL FAIL
I strongly urge you to educate yourself in 2nd grade math that if you spend more than you take in, you'll go broke.
 

Your so called article pales and is dwarfed in comparison to the OFFICIAL REPORT of the hand picked group of experts selected by the Governor of Michigan and empowered to investigate the water crisis.

And their findings - damning to the State and the Governor himself - were presented to you but you are ignoring for some reason.

Why are you doing so and insisting otherwise?

As to the allegation of declining tax base - what local decisions did Flint leaders make that caused the decline in tax base?
 

Not once but on two occasions during the last 14 years, it had been determined by experts that flint would collapse unless drastic measures were taken, putting city residents in danger of not receiving basic human services. I call that gross negligence and a complete failure on city officials to best serve its people.
 

So what specific decisions did Flint make bringing on this so called economic collapse? Produce them and when they were made.

You are being intentionally vague and simply repeating the right wing mantra of blaming the victim for historical trends it could not impact nor control.
 
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