The rising sea level myth[W:565]

Could all this chatter about rising sea levels just be another hoax in an attempt to prop up the AGW hoax?

" A dangerous misconception is gaining increasing credibility in the public eye. This misconception is that the levels of world seas and oceans is rising.

The fact that ocean levels are falling, not rising, is easily demonstrated from a wealth of historical evidence, some of which is presented below. Widespread fears and assertions of rising sealevels prove, when examined, to be only deductions from other equally groundless myths.

Perhaps the world is full of misconceptions, do we really need to worry about them? The rising sealevel misconception is one for which the answer is very definitely "Yes!". This misconception is beginning to cost us very serious money, and interfere with planning and progress in every country with a seashore.

The Great Sealevel Swindle

Re: The rising sea level myth

I think the alarmists aren't claiming that the sea level has been rising but rather that it will rise in the future. Divining the future, of course, doesn't require facts, just belief.

Re: The rising sea level myth

I watched a show on one of the Educational kind of channels yesterday about the invasion of Britain by the Romans under Claudius.

They landed and built many things, one of which was a coastal fort.

The Brits have now uncovered the ruins ot that fort that was on the coast 2000 years ago. It's 2 miles inland now.

It's interesting how when the sea level rises, more land is exposed.

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Kent | Dig uncovers Roman invasion coast

Re: The rising sea level myth

sawyerloggingon said:

Could all this chatter about rising sea levels just be another hoax in an attempt to prop up the AGW hoax?

" A dangerous misconception is gaining increasing credibility in the public eye. This misconception is that the levels of world seas and oceans is rising.

The fact that ocean levels are falling, not rising, is easily demonstrated from a wealth of historical evidence, some of which is presented below. Widespread fears and assertions of rising sealevels prove, when examined, to be only deductions from other equally groundless myths.

Perhaps the world is full of misconceptions, do we really need to worry about them? The rising sealevel misconception is one for which the answer is very definitely "Yes!". This misconception is beginning to cost us very serious money, and interfere with planning and progress in every country with a seashore.

The Great Sealevel Swindle

Click to expand...

Here is what the real scientists are saying about sea level change:

I can not copy the map. If you're interested in what's really happening, you have to click on the link.

The Center for Operational Oceanographic Products and Services has been measuring sea level for over 150 years, with tide stations of the National Water Level Observation Network operating on all U.S. coasts. Changes in Mean Sea Level (MSL), either a sea level rise or sea level fall, have been computed at 128 long-term water level stations using a minimum span of 30 years of observations at each location. These measurements have been averaged by month to remove the effect of higher frequency phenomena (e.g. storm surge) in order to compute an accurate linear sea level trend. The trend analysis has also been extended to 240 global tide stations using data from the Permanent Service for Mean Sea Level (PSMSL).

Click to expand...

Re: The rising sea level myth

The great thing about this issue is that we will all know for sure if seas are rising.

No debate is needed. We will see it for ourselves.

Re: The rising sea level myth

sawyerloggingon said:

Could all this chatter about rising sea levels just be another hoax in an attempt to prop up the AGW hoax?

" A dangerous misconception is gaining increasing credibility in the public eye. This misconception is that the levels of world seas and oceans is rising.

The fact that ocean levels are falling, not rising, is easily demonstrated from a wealth of historical evidence, some of which is presented below. Widespread fears and assertions of rising sealevels prove, when examined, to be only deductions from other equally groundless myths.

Perhaps the world is full of misconceptions, do we really need to worry about them? The rising sealevel misconception is one for which the answer is very definitely "Yes!". This misconception is beginning to cost us very serious money, and interfere with planning and progress in every country with a seashore.

The Great Sealevel Swindle

Click to expand...

Uh well according to yourself the sea levels are rising

sawyerloggingon said:

Take a wild guess at just how long the sea level has been rising.

Click to expand...

sawyerloggingon said:

Why attempt to do something about a natural process? It has been happening since the end of the last ice age not "a while".

Click to expand...

sawyerloggingon said:

You do realize many ancient ruins are now 100 feet under the ocean and have been since well before the industrial revolution don't you? Or do you?

Click to expand...

sawyerloggingon said:

Seems like just the other day they said the last 15 years would see a dramatic spike in temp, they were wrong. why do you believe their new sky is falling prediction?

There is also this to consider before you blow a fuse.

"Southampton researchers have estimated that sea-level rose by an average of about 1 metre per century at the end of the last Ice Age, interrupted by rapid 'jumps' during which it rose by up to 2.5 metres per century. The findings, published in Global and Planetary Change, will help unravel the responses of ocean circulation and climate to large inputs of ice-sheet meltwater to the world ocean."

Click to expand...

Is it rising or it is fallng, or is it just derp?

Re: The rising sea level myth

Dittohead not! said:

Here is what the real scientists are saying about sea level change:

I can not copy the map. If you're interested in what's really happening, you have to click on the link.

Click to expand...

Can't get the link to work.

Re: The rising sea level myth

Wiseone said:

Uh well according to yourself the sea levels are rising









Is it rising or it is fallng, or is it just derp?

Click to expand...

The sea level has been rising since the last ice age as ice melted, no doubt about that. I think what this guy is saying is it hasn't risen lately and in fact has fallen. Not saying I believe him but it's an interesting site I thought. I listen to all sides with an open mind.

Re: The rising sea level myth

sawyerloggingon said:

Can't get the link to work.

Click to expand...

Works fine for me.
maybe you have a feature on your computer that screens out real scientific websites, and only lets in the bloggers.

You might be able to bypass that feature by typing "sea level + noaa" in your search engine, then clicking on "Sea Level Trends - NOAA Tides and Currents"

Re: The rising sea level myth

sawyerloggingon said:

Could all this chatter about rising sea levels just be another hoax in an attempt to prop up the AGW hoax?

" A dangerous misconception is gaining increasing credibility in the public eye. This misconception is that the levels of world seas and oceans is rising.

The fact that ocean levels are falling, not rising, is easily demonstrated from a wealth of historical evidence, some of which is presented below. Widespread fears and assertions of rising sealevels prove, when examined, to be only deductions from other equally groundless myths.

Perhaps the world is full of misconceptions, do we really need to worry about them? The rising sealevel misconception is one for which the answer is very definitely "Yes!". This misconception is beginning to cost us very serious money, and interfere with planning and progress in every country with a seashore.

The Great Sealevel Swindle

Click to expand...

sawyerloggingon said:

The sea level has been rising since the last ice age as ice melted, no doubt about that. I think what this guy is saying is it hasn't risen lately and in fact has fallen. Not saying I believe him but it's an interesting site I thought. I listen to all sides with an open mind.

Click to expand...

That's great to listen to all sides with an open mind, but you can't take all sides as your position at the same time...

Re: The rising sea level myth

sawyerloggingon said:

Can't get the link to work.

Click to expand...

Worked for me.

It's a study of what has happened at stations with data of at least 30 years.

That data is then taken and extrapolated out to a year and a century.

In other words, it is what it is. What it is is not too much.

There are examples from all over the world that the sea level is stable or dropping. The arrows around St. Augustine Florida say that the sea level is rising at the rate of about a little less than 3 mm per year.

There is also a coastal fortress built by the Spaniards when they held Florida as a possession in about 1600 which is still on the coast.

The warming out of the Little Ice Age started at about the time the Fortress was built and yet it's still high and dry. There should have been a rise of about 1230 mm or more than 4 feet by now.

I know that the rise of the ocean is supposed to be calculated based only on the data provided and the measure of the accuracy of the data is not allowed based on actually measurable real world markers that we can really look at, but, still, there is a just a little bit of a question that comes up when you take a look at what we can actually see.

Do we really need to be panicked by the prediction of dire consequence when the evidence around us says the problem may not be so severe?

Re: The rising sea level myth

code1211 said:

Worked for me.

It's a study of what has happened at stations with data of at least 30 years.

That data is then taken and extrapolated out to a year and a century.

In other words, it is what it is. What it is is not too much.

There are examples from all over the world that the sea level is stable or dropping. The arrows around St. Augustine Florida say that the sea level is rising at the rate of about a little less than 3 mm per year.

There is also a coastal fortress built by the Spaniards when they held Florida as a possession in about 1600 which is still on the coast.

The warming out of the Little Ice Age started at about the time the Fortress was built and yet it's still high and dry. There should have been a rise of about 1230 mm or more than 4 feet by now.

I know that the rise of the ocean is supposed to be calculated based only on the data provided and the measure of the accuracy of the data is not allowed based on actually measurable real world markers that we can really look at, but, still, there is a just a little bit of a question that comes up when you take a look at what we can actually see.

Do we really need to be panicked by the prediction of dire consequence when the evidence around us says the problem may not be so severe?

Click to expand...

No one should be panicked over sea levels. The rise is too slow to invoke any panic.

Re: The rising sea level myth

The OP link?

David Noel
<davidn@aoi.com.au>
Ben Franklin Centre for Theoretical Research
PO Box 27, Subiaco, WA 6008, Australia.

That's how far afield/Low we go to find another denier.
Reminds of those wackos at Idaho PO Boxes Other Conspiracists use.

More CLOWNISH posts/More Ridiculous Flaming string titles from Sawyer.
Additionally, he starts/Flames up a new string title as a 'response' to My ongoing discussion.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/envir...sing-sea-level-threatening-coastal-areas.html

Re: The rising sea level myth

Dittohead not! said:

No one should be panicked over sea levels. The rise is too slow to invoke any panic.

Click to expand...

So the coastal property I bought in Tennessee was a swindle? Well, poop!

Re: The rising sea level myth

code1211 said:

Worked for me.

It's a study of what has happened at stations with data of at least 30 years.

That data is then taken and extrapolated out to a year and a century.

In other words, it is what it is. What it is is not too much.

There are examples from all over the world that the sea level is stable or dropping. The arrows around St. Augustine Florida say that the sea level is rising at the rate of about a little less than 3 mm per year.

There is also a coastal fortress built by the Spaniards when they held Florida as a possession in about 1600 which is still on the coast.

The warming out of the Little Ice Age started at about the time the Fortress was built and yet it's still high and dry. There should have been a rise of about 1230 mm or more than 4 feet by now.

I know that the rise of the ocean is supposed to be calculated based only on the data provided and the measure of the accuracy of the data is not allowed based on actually measurable real world markers that we can really look at, but, still, there is a just a little bit of a question that comes up when you take a look at what we can actually see.

Do we really need to be panicked by the prediction of dire consequence when the evidence around us says the problem may not be so severe?

Click to expand...

Sounds like a good site but I just can't make it work.

Re: The rising sea level myth

code1211 said:

So the coastal property I bought in Tennessee was a swindle? Well, poop!

Click to expand...

Yes, sorry about that. The beachfront property in Arizona could be a scam as well.

Re: The rising sea level myth

Well, I just opened the link in the OP and haven't read it yet. My gut feeling however is that sea levels are still rising, though I hope to be shown wrong.

Re: The rising sea level myth

Straddling the equator and spread over 2 million square miles of otherwise empty ocean, Kiribati's 32 atolls and one raised coral island have an average height above sea level of just 6 and a half feet.

Studies show surrounding sea levels rising at about 2.9 mm a year, well above the global average of 1 - 2 mm a year.

Kiribati President Anote Tong has grimly predicted his country will likely become uninhabitable in 30-60 years because of inundation and contamination of its fresh water supplies.
Booming population, rising seas threaten future of island nation - PhotoBlog

Hurricanes and storms are nothing new for Florida. But as the oceans warm, hurricanes are growing more intense. To make matters worse, this is happening against a backdrop of sharply rising sea levels, turning what has been a seasonal annoyance into an existential threat.

For around 2,000 years sea levels remained relatively constant. Between 1880 and 2011, however, they rose by an average of 0.07 inches (1.8mm) a year, and between 1993 and 2011 the average was between 0.11 and 0.13 inches a year.
Coastal Cities And Climate Change: You're Going To Get Wet - Business Insider

Like its neighbors in the Pacific, the Cook Islands is no stranger to severe natural disasters. Pacific island countries are highly susceptible to increasingly frequent and extreme events, such as cyclones, tsunamis and landslides, as well as the slower-onset effects of climate change, such as rising sea levels, increased temperatures and coastal erosion.
Pacific Islanders Lead Nansen Initiative Consultation on Cross-Border Displacement from Natural Disasters and Climate Change | Brookings Institution


This graph shows cumulative changes in sea level for the world's oceans since 1880, based on a combination of long-term tide gauge measurements and recent satellite measurements. This figure shows average absolute sea level change, which refers to the height of the ocean surface, regardless of whether nearby land is rising or falling. Satellite data are based solely on measured sea level, while the long-term tide gauge data include a small correction factor because the size and shape of the oceans are changing slowly over time. (On average, the ocean floor has been gradually sinking since the last Ice Age peak, 20,000 years ago.) The shaded band shows the likely range of values, based on the number of measurements collected and the precision of the methods used.

Data sources: CSIRO, 2012; 3 NOAA, 2012 4
Sea Level | Climate Change | US EPA

Re: The rising sea level myth

I'm not impressed by the link at all. Besides actual changes in sheet ice, and thermal expansion, the earth's plates move. They not only move horizontally, but vertical as well.

There really is no way to know the cause, but I don't think past times were enough warmer to have that much more thermal expansion of the seas, and that much less sheet ice.

Re: The rising sea level myth

Not far from where I live, is Vernonia Oregon. At an elevation of 630 ft, they find ocean type aquatic fossils. Sea level changes alone cannot account for that change in elevation.

Re: The rising sea level myth

Dittohead not! said:

Works fine for me.

Click to expand...

+1

Link works fine. 150+ years of data clearly indicate rising sea levels around the world.

By the way, the harbor at Ephesus was man-made, and required significant engineering resources to maintain it. Problems caused by the silting was documented as early as 449 BC. It silted up, and filled in, because the locals stopped dredging it. (Ephesus Location, Ephesus Turkey)

Next time, sawyer, please spare use the pseudo-science.

Re: The rising sea level myth

Visbek said:

+1

Link works fine. 150+ years of data clearly indicate rising sea levels around the world.

By the way, the harbor at Ephesus was man-made, and required significant engineering resources to maintain it. Problems caused by the silting was documented as early as 449 BC. It silted up, and filled in, because the locals stopped dredging it. (Ephesus Location, Ephesus Turkey)

Next time, sawyer, please spare use the pseudo-science.

Click to expand...

I got people discussing it and that was my intent.

Re: The rising sea level myth

Here's something I had not heard. The sea level recently dropped by a quarter inch but NASA says that extra water just fell over land after warming sucked it up out of the sea. Anyone know how many gallons a quarter inch of ocean equals? Sounds fishy to me.

An Update from NASA’s Sea Level Sentinels:

Like mercury in a thermometer, ocean waters expand as they warm. This, along with melting glaciers and ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica, drives sea levels higher over the long term. For the past 18 years, the U.S./French Jason-1, Jason-2 and Topex/Poseidon spacecraft have been monitoring the gradual rise of the world’s ocean in response to global warming.



While the rise of the global ocean has been remarkably steady for most of this time, every once in a while, sea level rise hits a speed bump. This past year, it’s been more like a pothole: between last summer and this one, global sea level actually fell by about a quarter of an inch, or half a centimeter.

So what’s up with the down seas, and what does it mean? Climate scientist Josh Willis of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., says you can blame it on the cycle of El Niño and La Niña in the Pacific.

NASA notes sea level is falling in press release – but calls it a “Pothole on Road to Higher Seas” | Watts Up With That?

Re: The rising sea level myth

sawyerloggingon said:

Here's something I had not heard. The sea level recently dropped by a quarter inch but NASA says that extra water just fell over land after warming sucked it up out of the sea. Anyone know how many gallons a quarter inch of ocean equals? Sounds fishy to me.

An Update from NASA’s Sea Level Sentinels:

Like mercury in a thermometer, ocean waters expand as they warm. This, along with melting glaciers and ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica, drives sea levels higher over the long term. For the past 18 years, the U.S./French Jason-1, Jason-2 and Topex/Poseidon spacecraft have been monitoring the gradual rise of the world’s ocean in response to global warming.



While the rise of the global ocean has been remarkably steady for most of this time, every once in a while, sea level rise hits a speed bump. This past year, it’s been more like a pothole: between last summer and this one, global sea level actually fell by about a quarter of an inch, or half a centimeter.

So what’s up with the down seas, and what does it mean? Climate scientist Josh Willis of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., says you can blame it on the cycle of El Niño and La Niña in the Pacific.

NASA notes sea level is falling in press release – but calls it a “Pothole on Road to Higher Seas” | Watts Up With That?

Click to expand...

The link goes to a blog, not to a NASA site. While it does have a link to NASA at the end, the link has nothing to do with sea levels at all.

Bloggers are fond of telling us what NASA is saying, but, the reality is that NASA is not saying what they're saying it's saying.

I posted a link to a real site. Have you been able to open it yet?
It shows sea levels around the world and gives the rise and fall in sea levels locally. Overall, the levels are up slightly, but certainly not enough to make it necessary to head for the hills or buy that ocean front property in Arizona or Tennessee.

Re: The rising sea level myth

Dittohead not! said:

The link goes to a blog, not to a NASA site. While it does have a link to NASA at the end, the link has nothing to do with sea levels at all.

Bloggers are fond of telling us what NASA is saying, but, the reality is that NASA is not saying what they're saying it's saying.

I posted a link to a real site. Have you been able to open it yet?
It shows sea levels around the world and gives the rise and fall in sea levels locally. Overall, the levels are up slightly, but certainly not enough to make it necessary to head for the hills or buy that ocean front property in Arizona or Tennessee.

Click to expand...

There are numerous links on the sea level fall, are you just questioning my choice of links or the fact that the sea level did indeed recently fall a quarter inch?

EDIT: never could get your site up, don't know why.


EDIT: HERE, happy??? :lol:


"NASA Satellites Detect Pothole on Road to Higher Seas"

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?release=2011-262