The rising sea level myth[W:565]

[Visbek]

Re: The rising sea level myth

So when will YOU understand that if I can't pick and choose areas, neither should YOU!

Considering that the overwhelming majority of scientific evidence supports both global warming with human activity as a major component, there isn't a lot of selectivity required to believe in climate change.

Do natural disasters, ie: storms, floods, earthquakes occur around the world? Of course! Always have. So what's new?

What's new is the frequency, intensity and damage of those storms. (And earthquakes have nothing to do with global warming.)

and HOW would buying permission to emit co2 do ANYTHING to stop it?

"Cap and trade." The nation puts a cap on total amount of CO2 emissions. Private industry then trades the ability to emit CO2.

the WHOLE global warming, metamorphed into climate change, evolving into sea rise, seems like a socialist wealth redistribution scheme, with the agenda to bring down the western cultures.

It isn't.

• It's going to affect the entire planet, including India and China.
• It isn't harmful to commerce. There are plenty of ways to cut CO2 emissions without weakening any aspect of the US.
• If we don't develop green technology, China almost certainly will -- and this will give them a big competitive advantage.

I honestly can't see any other interpretation of the movement and it's goals.

Right. The idea that the planet will turn into a hostile environment for humanity and other life forms couldn't possibly be an actual motivation. :roll:

 

[Visbek]

Re: The rising sea level myth

Of COURSE socialists have and have had long range plans to defeat the USA and the other western capitalist nations. Do you doubt it?

"Socialists" are all but gone. China and Russia are capitalist autocracies. Most of the few remaining Communist/socialist nations (e.g. Laos, Vietnam, Myanmar, Venezuela) are liberalizing or struggling.

The environmental movement in the US also pretty much started out as a bipartisan affair. Many Republicans were on board with cutting pollution in the early 70s. (e.g. The Conservative Turn Against Science - The Chronicle Review - The Chronicle of Higher Education)

Let's see. Infiltration of education, the media, subversion of the political parties, ect....30 years ago, who would have imagined the democrats would be pushing socialist agendas and policies?

Erm... The Democrats have actually moved a bit towards the center in the past 30 years.

The only way you could call Democrats "socialists" is to have no idea what the term "socialism" actually means.

AGW/Climate Change/Sea Rise is the latest attack!

No, it's a scientific fact, based on significant evidence.

It really should have nothing to do with partisanship. I for one would be glad to hear Republican or conservative solutions to this major problem.

 

[yobarnacle]

Re: The rising sea level myth

So what are YOU doing about it, except demanding OTHERS do something about it?

 

[the_recruit]

Re: The rising sea level myth

Is it rising or it is fallng, or is it just derp?

:lamo Sea levels may not be rising, but derp-levels are!

 

[yobarnacle]

Re: The rising sea level myth

I think we will find better and new energy sources. renewable ones.
I think private industry will do it.

Not a mega international corporation, but some tinkerer in his garage or basement.

I'm tinkering with a couple ideas myself.

but I DON"T think the solution is new laws or regulations.

Climate has ALWAYS been changing. Still is.

It';s the manmade CO2 causing it is malarkey.


And in a few years, people will laugh that folks today were silly enough to think it did.

And there IS NO science supporting CO2 drives climate.

Merely conjecture, and the emotional feeling that "all that CO2 has to be bad!"

Nope. There isn't any law of physics that says CO2 is bad.

Biology says it's GOOD!

 

[Lord of Planar]

Re: The rising sea level myth

Any actual scientific evidence of global warming "sounds fishy" to you.

The chart in the article you linked clearly indicates that the sea levels have been rising since at least 1992 -- despite an occasional drop, such as 1998 to 1999. Annual variations like these are normal, and again, are not proof against global warming.

There has been so much rainfall lately that I can understand a 1/4" drop, but I wouldn't consider it as a indication of things to come. the long term trend will still be a rising sea level in my opinion.

Still, I hope to be proved wrong.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Re: The rising sea level myth

I have never said this proves or disproves sea level rise, in fact I have said here numerous times it has been rising since the last ice age ended. I find the fact that it can fall a quarter inch in a year amazing though, like I said that's a lot of damn water. The thing about you warmer cult members is you get your hackles up every time you even suspect anything just might go against your religion. Relax and enjoy the science.

I don't consider 1/4" net difference that amazing over a one year period, especially for reasons I outlined in post #30, along with the fact that even though some places had drought, other places had so much more rainfall.

 

[longview]

Re: The rising sea level myth

This months issue of Scientific American had this article.
Sea Level Could Rise 5 Feet in New York City by 2100: Scientific American
They are projecting a 4 Foot rise by 2080 and 5 feet by 2100.
WOW! considering the current data from the Battery tide gauge.
Sea Levels Online - Mean Sea Level Trend
which is on track for about .6 feet by 2080 and .78 feet by 2100,
The slope will have to radically increase.
The Carthage Military Harbor, I think dates to before 700 BC and can still be seen
from space.
libia - Google Maps
Sea levels are rising, Just not at the panic level that Scientific American is portraying.

 

[longview]

Re: The rising sea level myth

This months issue of Scientific American had this article.
Sea Level Could Rise 5 Feet in New York City by 2100: Scientific American
They are projecting a 4 Foot rise by 2080 and 5 feet by 2100.
WOW! considering the current data from the Battery tide gauge.
Sea Levels Online - Mean Sea Level Trend
which is on track for about .6 feet by 2080 and .78 feet by 2100,
The slope will have to radically increase.
The Carthage Military Harbor, I think dates to before 700 BC and can still be seen
from space.
libia - Google Maps
Sea levels are rising, Just not at the panic level that Scientific American is portraying.

 

[KLATTU]

Re: The rising sea level myth

Consi
What's new is the frequency, intensity and damage of those storms. (And earthquakes have nothing to do with global warming.)



motivation. :roll:

Except that hasn't happened.
False statement.
Debate over.

 

[Visbek]

Re: The rising sea level myth

I think we will find better and new energy sources. renewable ones. I think private industry will do it.

I believe the private sector will have a bit to contribute, but let's keep a few things in mind.

• Economic incentives heavily favor existing (non-sustainable) infrastructure
• Most R&D in renewable energy is sponsored by governments (and not just in the US)
• Sustainable energy is only part of the solution. We also need to be more energy efficient, encourage conservation, produce less garbage, increase recycling, sustain and develop mass transportation, etc. A lot of this will be heavily influenced by government policies.

there IS NO science supporting CO2 drives climate.

Uh... there is a great deal of empirical evidence which supports the theory. In fact, it's overwhelming.

Scientific Consensus on Global Warming | Union of Concerned Scientists

How do we know more CO2 is causing warming?
Empirical evidence that humans are causing global warming
Carbon Dioxide Emissions | Climate Change | US EPA
Climate Change: Evidence
Climate Change: The Evidence and Our Options

 

[Visbek]

Re: The rising sea level myth

Except that hasn't happened. False statement. Debate over.

Uh, it has.

• Hurricanes are becoming more powerful. Combined with higher sea levels, storms like Sandy and Katrina will become far more frequent and damaging.
• Heat waves are already becoming more common and more severe.
• Flooding is also increasing.
• Winter is shortening in most of the US, although winter precipitation is also increasing.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Re: The rising sea level myth

I believe the private sector will have a bit to contribute, but let's keep a few things in mind.

• Economic incentives heavily favor existing (non-sustainable) infrastructure
• Most R&D in renewable energy is sponsored by governments (and not just in the US)
• Sustainable energy is only part of the solution. We also need to be more energy efficient, encourage conservation, produce less garbage, increase recycling, sustain and develop mass transportation, etc. A lot of this will be heavily influenced by government policies.



Uh... there is a great deal of empirical evidence which supports the theory. In fact, it's overwhelming.

Scientific Consensus on Global Warming | Union of Concerned Scientists

How do we know more CO2 is causing warming?
Empirical evidence that humans are causing global warming
Carbon Dioxide Emissions | Climate Change | US EPA
Climate Change: Evidence
Climate Change: The Evidence and Our Options

I know I have said this before but scientific consensus means squat. Very recently all the scientist except one concurred that the Washington scab lands were caused by glaciers. One scientist proved them all wrong but for many years they called him a nut so take your consensus and stick it where the sun does not shine and the earth does not warm.



Washington Scablands and the Lake Missoula Flood

 

[Deuce]

Re: The rising sea level myth

Sawyer.... Really?

I mean this is bad, even for you. Are you ok? You seem to have changed recently.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: The rising sea level myth

I know I have said this before but scientific consensus means squat. Very recently all the scientist except one concurred that the Washington scab lands were caused by glaciers. One scientist proved them all wrong but for many years they called him a nut so take your consensus and stick it where the sun does not shine and the earth does not warm.

You do have a point that accepted scientific ideas have been disproved in the past.

Dinosaurs, for example, were once seen as a type of reptile. Now, additional fossil evidence has the consensus going the other way, that they were the forerunners of birds.

But this one has the weight of decades of scientific research behind it, and is more akin to disproving the theory of evolution than of changing dinosaurs from reptiles to birds. Further, no one has as yet even begun to disprove AGW theory, despite the efforts of bloggers who pick out one bit of data and build it up to be far bigger than it really is, then take to the internet with the same evangelical zeal as door to door proselytizers.

I think you're tilting at windmills by continuing to deny global warming, but, who knows, there is a slight chance you could be right. Plus, there is an even bigger chance you might just win the big lottery, so keep buying those tickets.

 

[Visbek]

Re: The rising sea level myth

I know I have said this before but scientific consensus means squat. Very recently all the scientist except one concurred that the Washington scab lands were caused by glaciers. One scientist proved them all wrong but for many years they called him a nut so take your consensus and stick it where the sun does not shine and the earth does not warm.

I'm sorry, but this line of argument is utterly fallacious.

The list of successes built on scientific consensus is long and impressive. It covers every aspect of your daily life, from the computer you're typing on, the grid that supplies electricity to your computer, the power plants that provide electricity for your computer, and the routers and servers where you browse the Web; it covers the food that you eat, to the sewage treatment plants on the way out; the medicines you take; the cell towers and satellites in orbit; the car you drive, the air conditioning that cools your home... And that's just the start.

Yes, there are unquestionably situations where a minority view gets sidelined or ignored. Science is not omniscience.

However, those outliers do not prove that "the consensus is always wrong." Nor do they justify picking and choosing claims primarily because someone is telling you things you want to hear.

 

[KLATTU]

Re: The rising sea level myth

]

Uh, it has.

• Hurricanes are becoming more powerful. Combined with higher sea levels, storms like Sandy and Katrina will become far more frequent and damaging.
.

Not according to Dr. Ryan Maue , who tracks this things


Of course maybe the reason hurricane acivity has decreased is because global warming has gone way for about 10 or 15 years.

 

[KLATTU]

Re: The rising sea level myth

Uh, it has.

• Flooding is also increasing.
•cg.

Wrong again.

Long-term properties of annual maximum daily river discharge worldwide
The, “Analysis of trends and of aggregated time series on climatic (30-year) scale does not indicate consistent trends worldwide. Despite common perception, in general, the detected trends are more negative (less intense floods in most recent years) than positive.”

 

[KLATTU]

Re: The rising sea level myth

• Hurricanes are becoming more powerful. Combined with higher sea levels, storms like Sandy and Katrina will become far more frequent and damaging.
• Heat waves are already becoming more common and more severe.
.

You know the drill. Please provide proof that an objective criteria for a ' heat wave' has been established and analyzed on a worldwide basis/. BTW, an increase in heat waves over the past 10-15 years would be counter to AGW theory since global warming has flatlined over this time span.

 

[OscarB63]

Re: The rising sea level myth

I think the alarmists aren't claiming that the sea level has been rising but rather that it will rise in the future. Divining the future, of course, doesn't require facts, just belief.

given the level of predicted rise and the original timeframe.....it better start rising rapidly very soon if they are going to meet the prediction.

 

[Threegoofs]

The rising sea level myth

Works fine for me.
maybe you have a feature on your computer that screens out real scientific websites, and only lets in the bloggers.

You might be able to bypass that feature by typing "sea level + noaa" in your search engine, then clicking on "Sea Level Trends - NOAA Tides and Currents"

LOL. If I could access 'likes', you'd get one.

I wonder if those computers are marketed by the RNC? They screen out information before it gets to you to save you the effort!

 

[yobarnacle]

Re: The rising sea level myth

I believe the private sector will have a bit to contribute, but let's keep a few things in mind.

• Economic incentives heavily favor existing (non-sustainable) infrastructure
• Most R&D in renewable energy is sponsored by governments (and not just in the US)
• Sustainable energy is only part of the solution. We also need to be more energy efficient, encourage conservation, produce less garbage, increase recycling, sustain and develop mass transportation, etc. A lot of this will be heavily influenced by government policies.



Uh... there is a great deal of empirical evidence which supports the theory. In fact, it's overwhelming.

Scientific Consensus on Global Warming | Union of Concerned Scientists

How do we know more CO2 is causing warming?
Empirical evidence that humans are causing global warming
Carbon Dioxide Emissions | Climate Change | US EPA
Climate Change: Evidence
Climate Change: The Evidence and Our Options

The Science Behind The Theory That CO2 Does Not Drive Climate Change Part 1 of 2 - YouTube

Nope it doesn't

 

[yobarnacle]

Re: The rising sea level myth

The Science Behind The Theory That CO2 Does Not Drive Climate Change Part 2 of 2 - YouTube

and part 2

 

[Hard Truth]

Re: The rising sea level myth

given the level of predicted rise and the original timeframe.....it better start rising rapidly very soon if they are going to meet the prediction.

Straddling the equator and spread over 2 million square miles of otherwise empty ocean, Kiribati's 32 atolls and one raised coral island have an average height above sea level of just 6 and a half feet.

Studies show surrounding sea levels rising at about 2.9 mm a year, well above the global average of 1 - 2 mm a year.

Kiribati President Anote Tong has grimly predicted his country will likely become uninhabitable in 30-60 years because of inundation and contamination of its fresh water supplies.
Booming population, rising seas threaten future of island nation - PhotoBlog

Hurricanes and storms are nothing new for Florida. But as the oceans warm, hurricanes are growing more intense. To make matters worse, this is happening against a backdrop of sharply rising sea levels, turning what has been a seasonal annoyance into an existential threat.

For around 2,000 years sea levels remained relatively constant. Between 1880 and 2011, however, they rose by an average of 0.07 inches (1.8mm) a year, and between 1993 and 2011 the average was between 0.11 and 0.13 inches a year.
Coastal Cities And Climate Change: You're Going To Get Wet - Business Insider

Like its neighbors in the Pacific, the Cook Islands is no stranger to severe natural disasters. Pacific island countries are highly susceptible to increasingly frequent and extreme events, such as cyclones, tsunamis and landslides, as well as the slower-onset effects of climate change, such as rising sea levels, increased temperatures and coastal erosion.
Pacific Islanders Lead Nansen Initiative Consultation on Cross-Border Displacement from Natural Disasters and Climate Change | Brookings Institution


This graph shows cumulative changes in sea level for the world's oceans since 1880, based on a combination of long-term tide gauge measurements and recent satellite measurements. This figure shows average absolute sea level change, which refers to the height of the ocean surface, regardless of whether nearby land is rising or falling. Satellite data are based solely on measured sea level, while the long-term tide gauge data include a small correction factor because the size and shape of the oceans are changing slowly over time. (On average, the ocean floor has been gradually sinking since the last Ice Age peak, 20,000 years ago.) The shaded band shows the likely range of values, based on the number of measurements collected and the precision of the methods used.

Data sources: CSIRO, 2012; 3 NOAA, 2012 4
Sea Level | Climate Change | US EPA

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Re: The rising sea level myth

You do have a point that accepted scientific ideas have been disproved in the past.

Dinosaurs, for example, were once seen as a type of reptile. Now, additional fossil evidence has the consensus going the other way, that they were the forerunners of birds.

But this one has the weight of decades of scientific research behind it, and is more akin to disproving the theory of evolution than of changing dinosaurs from reptiles to birds. Further, no one has as yet even begun to disprove AGW theory, despite the efforts of bloggers who pick out one bit of data and build it up to be far bigger than it really is, then take to the internet with the same evangelical zeal as door to door proselytizers.

I think you're tilting at windmills by continuing to deny global warming, but, who knows, there is a slight chance you could be right. Plus, there is an even bigger chance you might just win the big lottery, so keep buying those tickets.

Decades of scientific research is nice but the scablands and reptile dino theory's had even more decades. Thank you for getting my point though.