An invention by die-hard Trump supporters trying to assign a mental disorder to those who see Trump in a clear-eyed way, while dismissing their own inability to discern reality....we know it as TDS. Or one of its many other variants.
There are plenty of effective vaccines, but apparently some don't believe in them and stubbornly refuse to take them.
OK then, you've successfully plunged me into a deeper depression than I thought was humanly possible.....I have, in various contexts, described a Trump voter as stupid, dishonest, depraved, or any combination thereof. Not flattering, I admit, but I've yet to find anything to contradict that description - present company excepted, of course. But there is a broader, more scientific, description that describes the phenomenon that is Trumpism.
Many have described Trump devotees as "cultists", and that description is not inaccurate, because their devotion goes begging description, but it is incomplete. Some have called it "Trump Devotion Syndrome", but the psychological community provides a better understanding. "Five highly interrelated characteristics stand out that are central to a social psychological analysis – authoritarianism, social dominance orientation, outgroup prejudice, the absence of intergroup contact and relative deprivation.
"https://jspp.psychopen.eu/index.php/jspp/article/view/4993/4993.html
"Trump loyalists are highly conscientious...
We identified individuals as Trump loyalists in terms of three aspects of Trump support: (1) belief in Trump as the legitimate winner of the 2020 election, (2) belief in Trump’s leadership abilities, and (3) belief that he has an elevated status that is frequently disrespected by the mainstream media. These Trump supporters comprised about 10 percent of all American adults and roughly one-third of Trump-voting Republicans in our total sample."
Exploring the personality of Donald Trump's personality cult
Unscathed by all scandals, Donald Trump's popularity among his loyalists could still secure him another term as U.S. president. Why are these voters willing to ‘ride or die‘ with Trump? University of Vienna political philosopher Lars Moen examines the psychological roots.rudolphina.univie.ac.at
"People who are opposed to Donald Trump being elected to serve as president of the United States likely believe that his supporters are weird—and vice versa. Trump stands out from other former and potential presidents, however, in terms of the number of crimes and moral misdeeds he has been accused of. Given this backdrop, we, as cognitive dissonance researchers, wondered what supporters of Trump would say when asked why they support him given his alleged crimes and misbehaviors. We assumed that most of his supporters are decent folks who would experience some dissonance from supporting a president who had been accused of so many misdeeds."
Why Voters Support Trump Despite His Alleged Misdeeds
Why do individuals continue to support Trump after he has been accused of so many illegal and immoral actions. We surveyed Trump supporters in 3 studies to find out.www.psychologytoday.com
These researchers describe a pattern that many of us experience every day: “A man with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point.”
A second study was conducted in December of 2019, two days after the House of Representatives voted to impeach Trump for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. The reasons people gave for justifying their support at this point were similar to those observed in the previous study, with the addition of a new category: They stated they did not care about the allegations (“I don’t care about his sex life or what it does involve”). This latter response is similar to the dissonance reduction strategy that has been referred to as trivialization, or mentally reducing the importance of dissonant information (Simon et al., 1995).
In the third study, which was conducted two days after Trump was arraigned for election interference for his involvement in the riot at the U.S. Capitol in January 2021, the justifications were similar to those given in the previous studies, but a new category emerged: Some who previously supported him no longer did (“After all of the hearings and as information came out, I lost respect for Trump. It was fine that he contested the results through the courts, but when the courts decided the election was fair, he should have accepted the results”). Dissonance reduction sometimes does involve changing one’s mind and learning from one’s mistakes. This way of reducing dissonance is likely common in life but not studied much within the field."
True. Your Devotion is real....we know it as TDS
Meh...An invention by die-hard Trump supporters trying to assign a mental disorder to those who see Trump in a clear-eyed way, while dismissing their own inability to discern reality.
Quite ironic, really.
I would like to learn more about how to talk to people who are in this stage.I have, in various contexts, described a Trump voter as stupid, dishonest, depraved, or any combination thereof. Not flattering, I admit, but I've yet to find anything to contradict that description - present company excepted, of course. But there is a broader, more scientific, description that describes the phenomenon that is Trumpism.
Many have described Trump devotees as "cultists", and that description is not inaccurate, because their devotion goes begging description, but it is incomplete. Some have called it "Trump Devotion Syndrome", but the psychological community provides a better understanding. "Five highly interrelated characteristics stand out that are central to a social psychological analysis – authoritarianism, social dominance orientation, outgroup prejudice, the absence of intergroup contact and relative deprivation.
"https://jspp.psychopen.eu/index.php/jspp/article/view/4993/4993.html
"Trump loyalists are highly conscientious...
We identified individuals as Trump loyalists in terms of three aspects of Trump support: (1) belief in Trump as the legitimate winner of the 2020 election, (2) belief in Trump’s leadership abilities, and (3) belief that he has an elevated status that is frequently disrespected by the mainstream media. These Trump supporters comprised about 10 percent of all American adults and roughly one-third of Trump-voting Republicans in our total sample."
Exploring the personality of Donald Trump's personality cult
Unscathed by all scandals, Donald Trump's popularity among his loyalists could still secure him another term as U.S. president. Why are these voters willing to ‘ride or die‘ with Trump? University of Vienna political philosopher Lars Moen examines the psychological roots.rudolphina.univie.ac.at
"People who are opposed to Donald Trump being elected to serve as president of the United States likely believe that his supporters are weird—and vice versa. Trump stands out from other former and potential presidents, however, in terms of the number of crimes and moral misdeeds he has been accused of. Given this backdrop, we, as cognitive dissonance researchers, wondered what supporters of Trump would say when asked why they support him given his alleged crimes and misbehaviors. We assumed that most of his supporters are decent folks who would experience some dissonance from supporting a president who had been accused of so many misdeeds."
Why Voters Support Trump Despite His Alleged Misdeeds
Why do individuals continue to support Trump after he has been accused of so many illegal and immoral actions. We surveyed Trump supporters in 3 studies to find out.www.psychologytoday.com
These researchers describe a pattern that many of us experience every day: “A man with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point.”
A second study was conducted in December of 2019, two days after the House of Representatives voted to impeach Trump for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. The reasons people gave for justifying their support at this point were similar to those observed in the previous study, with the addition of a new category: They stated they did not care about the allegations (“I don’t care about his sex life or what it does involve”). This latter response is similar to the dissonance reduction strategy that has been referred to as trivialization, or mentally reducing the importance of dissonant information (Simon et al., 1995).
In the third study, which was conducted two days after Trump was arraigned for election interference for his involvement in the riot at the U.S. Capitol in January 2021, the justifications were similar to those given in the previous studies, but a new category emerged: Some who previously supported him no longer did (“After all of the hearings and as information came out, I lost respect for Trump. It was fine that he contested the results through the courts, but when the courts decided the election was fair, he should have accepted the results”). Dissonance reduction sometimes does involve changing one’s mind and learning from one’s mistakes. This way of reducing dissonance is likely common in life but not studied much within the field."
Double meh...True. Your Devotion is real.
You're in a cult. Now, give me a super clever "triple meh"!Double meh...
I did mention Trump Devotion Syndrome, which is, in fact, a real thing. I'll follow up, soon, but I wanted to get the discussion started.An invention by die-hard Trump supporters trying to assign a mental disorder to those who see Trump in a clear-eyed way, while dismissing their own inability to discern reality.
Quite ironic, really.
That is a significant inspiration for this thread. I, too, want to know how to get people to "snap out of it", but a direct approach has proved unavailing.I would like to learn more about how to talk to people who are in this stage.
For instance, I just posted about an interaction with a family member who praised Trump about retroactive social security payments that just hit bank accounts. I was 90% sure that Trump had very little to do with it but kept my mouth shut. The family member gets offended or dismissive any time I've asked for more details or clarification about her Trump praise, no matter how polite or gentle I try to be.
Sure enough, the payments were from a bipartisan bill passed under Biden.
I have, in various contexts, described a Trump voter as stupid, dishonest, depraved, or any combination thereof. Not flattering, I admit, but I've yet to find anything to contradict that description - present company excepted, of course. But there is a broader, more scientific, description that describes the phenomenon that is Trumpism.
Many have described Trump devotees as "cultists", and that description is not inaccurate, because their devotion goes begging description, but it is incomplete. Some have called it "Trump Devotion Syndrome", but the psychological community provides a better understanding. "Five highly interrelated characteristics stand out that are central to a social psychological analysis – authoritarianism, social dominance orientation, outgroup prejudice, the absence of intergroup contact and relative deprivation.
"https://jspp.psychopen.eu/index.php/jspp/article/view/4993/4993.html
"Trump loyalists are highly conscientious...
We identified individuals as Trump loyalists in terms of three aspects of Trump support: (1) belief in Trump as the legitimate winner of the 2020 election, (2) belief in Trump’s leadership abilities, and (3) belief that he has an elevated status that is frequently disrespected by the mainstream media. These Trump supporters comprised about 10 percent of all American adults and roughly one-third of Trump-voting Republicans in our total sample."
Exploring the personality of Donald Trump's personality cult
Unscathed by all scandals, Donald Trump's popularity among his loyalists could still secure him another term as U.S. president. Why are these voters willing to ‘ride or die‘ with Trump? University of Vienna political philosopher Lars Moen examines the psychological roots.rudolphina.univie.ac.at
"People who are opposed to Donald Trump being elected to serve as president of the United States likely believe that his supporters are weird—and vice versa. Trump stands out from other former and potential presidents, however, in terms of the number of crimes and moral misdeeds he has been accused of. Given this backdrop, we, as cognitive dissonance researchers, wondered what supporters of Trump would say when asked why they support him given his alleged crimes and misbehaviors. We assumed that most of his supporters are decent folks who would experience some dissonance from supporting a president who had been accused of so many misdeeds."
Why Voters Support Trump Despite His Alleged Misdeeds
Why do individuals continue to support Trump after he has been accused of so many illegal and immoral actions. We surveyed Trump supporters in 3 studies to find out.www.psychologytoday.com
These researchers describe a pattern that many of us experience every day: “A man with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point.”
A second study was conducted in December of 2019, two days after the House of Representatives voted to impeach Trump for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. The reasons people gave for justifying their support at this point were similar to those observed in the previous study, with the addition of a new category: They stated they did not care about the allegations (“I don’t care about his sex life or what it does involve”). This latter response is similar to the dissonance reduction strategy that has been referred to as trivialization, or mentally reducing the importance of dissonant information (Simon et al., 1995).
In the third study, which was conducted two days after Trump was arraigned for election interference for his involvement in the riot at the U.S. Capitol in January 2021, the justifications were similar to those given in the previous studies, but a new category emerged: Some who previously supported him no longer did (“After all of the hearings and as information came out, I lost respect for Trump. It was fine that he contested the results through the courts, but when the courts decided the election was fair, he should have accepted the results”). Dissonance reduction sometimes does involve changing one’s mind and learning from one’s mistakes. This way of reducing dissonance is likely common in life but not studied much within the field."
I think you're spot on!I have, in various contexts, described a Trump voter as stupid, dishonest, depraved, or any combination thereof. Not flattering, I admit, but I've yet to find anything to contradict that description - present company excepted, of course. But there is a broader, more scientific, description that describes the phenomenon that is Trumpism.
Many have described Trump devotees as "cultists", and that description is not inaccurate, because their devotion goes begging description, but it is incomplete. Some have called it "Trump Devotion Syndrome", but the psychological community provides a better understanding. "Five highly interrelated characteristics stand out that are central to a social psychological analysis – authoritarianism, social dominance orientation, outgroup prejudice, the absence of intergroup contact and relative deprivation.
"https://jspp.psychopen.eu/index.php/jspp/article/view/4993/4993.html
"Trump loyalists are highly conscientious...
We identified individuals as Trump loyalists in terms of three aspects of Trump support: (1) belief in Trump as the legitimate winner of the 2020 election, (2) belief in Trump’s leadership abilities, and (3) belief that he has an elevated status that is frequently disrespected by the mainstream media. These Trump supporters comprised about 10 percent of all American adults and roughly one-third of Trump-voting Republicans in our total sample."
Exploring the personality of Donald Trump's personality cult
Unscathed by all scandals, Donald Trump's popularity among his loyalists could still secure him another term as U.S. president. Why are these voters willing to ‘ride or die‘ with Trump? University of Vienna political philosopher Lars Moen examines the psychological roots.rudolphina.univie.ac.at
"People who are opposed to Donald Trump being elected to serve as president of the United States likely believe that his supporters are weird—and vice versa. Trump stands out from other former and potential presidents, however, in terms of the number of crimes and moral misdeeds he has been accused of. Given this backdrop, we, as cognitive dissonance researchers, wondered what supporters of Trump would say when asked why they support him given his alleged crimes and misbehaviors. We assumed that most of his supporters are decent folks who would experience some dissonance from supporting a president who had been accused of so many misdeeds."
Why Voters Support Trump Despite His Alleged Misdeeds
Why do individuals continue to support Trump after he has been accused of so many illegal and immoral actions. We surveyed Trump supporters in 3 studies to find out.www.psychologytoday.com
These researchers describe a pattern that many of us experience every day: “A man with a conviction is a hard man to change. Tell him you disagree and he turns away. Show him facts or figures and he questions your sources. Appeal to logic and he fails to see your point.”
A second study was conducted in December of 2019, two days after the House of Representatives voted to impeach Trump for abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. The reasons people gave for justifying their support at this point were similar to those observed in the previous study, with the addition of a new category: They stated they did not care about the allegations (“I don’t care about his sex life or what it does involve”). This latter response is similar to the dissonance reduction strategy that has been referred to as trivialization, or mentally reducing the importance of dissonant information (Simon et al., 1995).
In the third study, which was conducted two days after Trump was arraigned for election interference for his involvement in the riot at the U.S. Capitol in January 2021, the justifications were similar to those given in the previous studies, but a new category emerged: Some who previously supported him no longer did (“After all of the hearings and as information came out, I lost respect for Trump. It was fine that he contested the results through the courts, but when the courts decided the election was fair, he should have accepted the results”). Dissonance reduction sometimes does involve changing one’s mind and learning from one’s mistakes. This way of reducing dissonance is likely common in life but not studied much within the field."
With all due respect, bullshit. Poll after poll demonstrates that progressive policies are popular, Republican policies are not, so this analysis, while occurring in numerous places, is misguided, as it always is.Let's put a little frame around this. Trump won the presidency in 2016 and 2024 because the Democrats were a party of the elite and a party of the poor. They not only were uninterested in the middle but openly displayed contempt for them.
Is not that how this thread begins, "I have, in various contexts, described a Trump voter as stupid, dishonest, depraved, or any combination thereof. Not flattering, I admit, but I've yet to find anything to contradict that description . . ."
The Democratic elite are angry. If you're the party of the very wealthy, suburban and educated, you're angered that the less wealthy and the less educated voters are presumably supporting the opposition making important political decisions that threaten both elitism and protected status.
The solution is for Democrats to reject progressive party control while nurturing liberal and moderate problem solvers Trump voters will cross over to support.
Are you saying that is never true?That's a lot of effort to say, "People who disagree with me are nutz!"
With all due respect . . . hah!With all due respect, bullshit. Poll after poll demonstrates that progressive policies are popular, Republican policies are not, so this analysis, while occurring in numerous places, is misguided, as it always is.
The reality is that Democrats function with one hand tied behind their backs because of quirks of geography, structure of the Constitution, and manipulation of the processes. They, by and large, need to perform about 5%-12% better than their Republican counterparts to be competitive. Moreover, State Republican legislatures, where they have majorities, have skewed these disadvantages even more in the favor of the GOP. THOSE are the realities that are so easily overlooked by armchair analysts.
I'm not saying that the Democrats don't need to appeal to broader constituencies. They do, but the brush with which you are tarring them is devoid of substance. Demagogues and charlatans have advantages in the process, because of precisely who they are - devoid of moral compass and willing to lie excessively to gain power. That is what the definition of those terms signifies.
Back to the subject, this thread is intended to address specific socio-psychological phenomena that are specific to Trump loyalists, not necessarily excuse or explain why every Trump voter voted as they did. My personal opinion hasn't changed - they did so because they are stupid, dishonest, depraved, or any combination thereof. That, however, is NOT the gravamen of this thread.
Are you saying that is never true?
Because this is not personal opinion. This is the opinion of over 60,000 mental health specialists, signed in this petition back in 2017- done as a "duty to warn" the public:
“We, the undersigned mental health professionals, believe in our professional judgment that Donald Trump manifests a serious mental illness that renders him psychologically incapable of competently discharging the duties of President of the United States. And we respectfully request he be removed from office, according to article 4 of the 25th amendment to the Constitution, which states that the president will be replaced if he is ‘unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.’”
"The Dangerous Case of Donald Trump"
Why are so many mental health professionals willing to put their careers on the line?www.psychologytoday.com
With all due respect . . . hah!
Well... I did say dueWith all due respect . . . hah!
Let's put a little frame around this. Trump won the presidency in 2016 and 2024 because the Democrats were a party of the elite and a party of the poor. They not only were uninterested in the middle but openly displayed contempt for them.
Is not that how this thread begins, "I have, in various contexts, described a Trump voter as stupid, dishonest, depraved, or any combination thereof. Not flattering, I admit, but I've yet to find anything to contradict that description . . ."
The Democratic elite are angry. If you're the party of the very wealthy, suburban and educated, you're angered that the less wealthy and the less educated voters are presumably supporting the opposition making important political decisions that threaten both elitism and protected status.
The solution is for Democrats to reject progressive party control while nurturing liberal and moderate problem solvers Trump voters will cross over to support.
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