you are wrong, thier prospective conclusions are provided for them.
but yes, you are correct, we get these absolutists who help no one.
Not sure of the relevance here. I didn't make a distinction between local and federalis.
I see no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Typically, I stand beside our men and women in blue. I still do.
But I acknowledge the problem, none the less.
Our police have become militarized because many of the returning veterans are joining the force. Therein lies half the problem, in my humble opinion.
The streets of America are NOT the streets of Baghdad or Kabul. American citizens are NOT the enemy or the Taliban, if you will.
This mentality does need some work. I do not agree that returning veterans make for the best police.
We would be in really bad shape without cops.
Because they are entirely different animals. The local government is a direct expression of the local people, where the federal government is a representative body having to make Solomon like choices for a very large group of disparate localities. Locally, even the average citizen's voice is strong, federally, you can barely hear them.
Are you trying to tell me you are for a small federal government but a large authoritarian local government?
Yes, that was in the 70s and 80s... when national crime rates were on the rise.Are you old enough to remember when NYC's image to the rest of the country was that of a crime spree wasteland? Travelers avoided the place and those who couldn't were advised that they would probably be mugged at least once in their stay.
Uh huhHow do you think they came back from that? By enforcing ALL their laws.
1) Please cite your research.Again, know how they find a ton of violent felons with active warrants? Traffic stop and stop for minor violations. Funny thing about most criminals, their criminal behavior isn't limited to felonies.
Yes, that was in the 70s and 80s... when national crime rates were on the rise.
Uh huh
1) Crime rates didn't just go down in NYC, they went down nationally, and in cities with a variety of different approaches to policing.
2) People have all sorts of theories about why crime has gone down. Abolishing lead paint and leaded gas, legalized abortion, stop & frisk, the rise in the use of psychiatric medications, population aging, the rejection of crack cocaine, the rise in cybercrime, longer prison sentences, hot-spot policing, broken-windows policing, improved crime stats and tracking, gentrification...
At a bare minimum, tossing off an explanation like "crime rates went down because cops enforced ALL the laws" certainly leaves a lot to be desired.
1) Please cite your research.
2) Almost half of NYC households don't own cars. Traffic stops, not likely to be a big source of popping "violent felons."
3) The NYPD spent years conducting stop & frisks on people in high-crime areas. Guess what? They didn't turn up a lot of violent felons with active warrants. They didn't make a lot of actual arrests. And of those arrests, only a tiny fraction were for the claimed purpose, namely "illegal gun possession."
Are you trying to tell me you are for a small federal government but a large authoritarian local government?
That would be a typical for you mischaracterization of what I posted. Whether you have a "large authoritarian local government" is entirely and directly up to you and your local community. If that's what you and your community want, then yes. Otherwise, no.
You are mistaken, the police are becoming militarized due to the DOD's equipment program, the warrior cop mentality is not due to the military veterans but departmental directives and high speed operator promises recruitment programs.
Less than 10% on average of LEO's have military experience, out of that 10% many never had any combat or patrol type experience.
I suspect that at first New Yorkers will mostly support the police, but if it continues public sentiment will turn against them quickly.
What does the NYPD want? An apology from the mayor? A promise no NYPD officer will ever be brought before a grand jury? Authorizing clubbing down protesters? That every NYCer sign a pledge of loyalty to the police? They all want III full military body armor with full auto M16s? An armored car for all officers?
What - exactly - are the demands?
I support gathering as much evidence as possible to figure out why crime rates are falling, and using that information to develop better policies.So you oppose crime prevention, only crime solving?
Stop & frisk was a complete and utter failure.The stop and frisk policy would tend to keep people from carrying illegal firearms, wouldn't it?
Yeah, that makes pretty good sense too.
I found this to be a pretty good read regarding as to why today's police are going somewhat, "off da hook."
6. Police are increasingly militarized.
During President Obama’s gun control push, he argued that “weapons of war have no place on our streets;” but as Radley Balko has amply documented in his 2013 book, Rise of the Warrior Cop, local police are often equipped with weapons powerful enough to conquer a small country. Police use of highly armed SWAT teams has risen by 1,500 percent in the last two decades, and many police departments have cultivated an “us vs. them” mentality toward the public they ostensibly serve. Although possession of these weapons does not cause misconduct, as the old saying goes, when you have a hammer everything begins to look like a nail. <snip> Seven Reasons Police Brutality Is Systemic, Not Anecdotal | The American Conservative
10%? Interesting. I was sure there would be more. I tried looking it up. All I got was.. "No one (not the VA nor the DOJ) keeps statistics on how many combat vets are employed as law enforcement officers. Most of my generation has retired, so the Vietnam vets are only a tiny percentage. I am sure that the total number of combat vets has only increased slightly in the last ten years. <snip>https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130730163536AAlq8qx
And bull**** rhetoric of wannabe a soldier cops trying to place themselves on the same high ground as our soldiers. "Police officers and military veterans are kindred spirits. Both wear their uniforms with pride. Both don their uniforms to be part of a larger team of professionals protecting those who can't protect themselves at great personal risk. And both operate within a rigid command structure. <snip> blah, blah, blah............. Military Vets Joining Law Enforcement - Article - POLICE Magazine
I thought for sure there would be more than 10%. Where did you find that information? I can't find anything on that.
Happy New Year Rev.
I support gathering as much evidence as possible to figure out why crime rates are falling, and using that information to develop better policies.
At this time, I don't think we have solid evidence to answer that question. That said, the evidence to support the "broken windows" model of policing is not particularly good, and there are good reasons to believe that it hampers police effectiveness.
We should also note that a broken windows policy is not the same as a beat-cop type approach, e.g. having police assigned to a specific neighborhood, who get to know the residents. "Broken windows" means aggressively cracking down on every possible minor offense. It would be like having the cops bang on your door at 7AM every Saturday morning, ordering you to mow your lawn to a regulation length.
I'm also not clear what you mean by "crime prevention." I can say that I strongly oppose the idea that the police have a justified presumption of guilt for every young male in a minority community. I also oppose policies that violate a citizen's right to be secure in their persons against unreasonable searches and seizures. Is that what you mean....?
Stop & frisk was a complete and utter failure.
The NYPD conducted millions of searches, almost all in minority communities, and almost never found any illegal firearms -- even when the program first got started, as in before anyone has any reason to expect they'd be searched at random. The program was so egregious that the NYPD is now being watched by a court-appointed monitor.
Most importantly, terminating the program has had no effect whatsoever on NYC crime rates. Quelle surprise.
There are no exact counts as you know, but there is mention of the speculation in one of your links I believe of the 10%. I've also read it somewhere else and am looking for the link.
If a cop pulls another cop over for speeding, he won't get a ticket in most cases.
If a cop pulls over a soldier for the same thing, he's most likely getting a ticket.
Kindred? I don't think so.
But I agree with evertying else. Cops got all these cool toys, and needed a reason to train with them. MRaps for all! yay!
And happy new year to you as well!
Yes, that was in the 70s and 80s... when national crime rates were on the rise.
Uh huh
1) Crime rates didn't just go down in NYC, they went down nationally, and in cities with a variety of different approaches to policing.
2) People have all sorts of theories about why crime has gone down. Abolishing lead paint and leaded gas, legalized abortion, stop & frisk, the rise in the use of psychiatric medications, population aging, the rejection of crack cocaine, the rise in cybercrime, longer prison sentences, hot-spot policing, broken-windows policing, improved crime stats and tracking, gentrification...
At a bare minimum, tossing off an explanation like "crime rates went down because cops enforced ALL the laws" certainly leaves a lot to be desired.
1) Please cite your research.
2) Almost half of NYC households don't own cars. Traffic stops, not likely to be a big source of popping "violent felons."
3) The NYPD spent years conducting stop & frisks on people in high-crime areas. Guess what? They didn't turn up a lot of violent felons with active warrants. They didn't make a lot of actual arrests. And of those arrests, only a tiny fraction were for the claimed purpose, namely "illegal gun possession."
The NYPD has essentially stopped writing traffic and parking tickets. Arrests for more serious offenses have dropped by 2/3rds.
NYPD traffic tickets and summonses for minor offenses have dropped off by a staggering 94 percent following the execution of two cops — as officers feel betrayed by the mayor and fear for their safety, The Post has learned.
[h=1]Arrests plummet 66% with NYPD in virtual work stoppage
http://nypost.com/2014/12/29/arrests-plummet-following-execution-of-two-cops/[/h]
[h=1]The NYPD's Insubordination—and Why the Right Should Oppose It[/h]http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/12/why-the-right-should-oppose-the-nypds-flagrant-insubordination/384140/
[h=1]NYPD Reportedly in ‘Virtual Work Stoppage’ Over de Blasio Rift
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/12/nypd-in-work-stoppage-over-de-blasio-rift.html[/h]
Do you support the NYPD work stoppage?
I asked you a question because you are as usual all over the place with your red herrings, strawmen, and other garbage posts. You once again dodged my question.
You recognize the world is a muddy place and refuse to recognize that some citizens, especially those doing something wrong, routinely lie like rugs wherever police are involved. Knowing this why wouldn't you give the police the benefit of the doubt. Especially when neither of us are party to all the facts in these cases.
Police officers are human and sometimes lie, too. The benefit of the doubt should go to citizens. The burden of proof should be on the state. Officers are actors on behalf of the state, and that's where they derive their authority. I believe most officers are good people. But I'd rather give my neighbors the benefit of the doubt.
From the very start, S&F had a very low arrest rate, and a very low gun seizure rate. The gun seizure rate over an 8-year period was 1 in 6000. Epic fail.Of what I understand of it, I don't support the "broken windows" policy. By crime prevention I meant what I wrote. The effect of a stop and frisk program being highly publicized it hopefully for the goal that nothing illegal is ever found.
I don't think you understand the program.The police likely still regularly frisk people who seem poise a danger. Instead, they likely just don't report it anymore.
I answered your question directly. You don't appear to read the posts you quote. As for the rest, insult away, but know that your own posts reflect those qualities with regularity.
Yes, I'm sure that NYC having a bad reputation matters far more than any actual statistical information, which clearly shows that national and NYC crime rates moved in tandem....Nonsense. We weren't warned we'd be mugged visiting just any large city. NYC held that distinction. For the how they did it, read some Koch.
Then why are you making the claim?Hard to nail down stats on traffic and minor violation stops (NOT the same as stop and frisk) that give up felony warranted individuals.
Actually, what happens in NYC is that people get stopped for minor violations, it escalates, and the police nail them for resisting arrest. (There are also indications that cops lie, sometimes brazenly, about the alleged resistance.) I'm certainly not aware of any indications that violent felons routinely get popped for small infractions in NYC, hence my expressions of skepticism and request for actual evidence for said claims.As for you number 2 point, silly. I didn't say traffic stops alone, but also stops for minor ordinance violations. My exact post was "Traffic stop and stop for minor violations". Interesting since you posted the quote that you would miss that.
Ask Google, and ye shall receive.And, on number 3 - where are your stats?
What the....?And again, even IF true there is an easy explanation - those folks stopped and frisked weren't breaking the law at the time.
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