The Nicene Creed

[Parker_Chess]

In the year 325 AD, Bishops gathered in Nicaea to address the growing problem of Arianism in the Church. Arians wrongfully believed that Jesus was a created being, and not the one true God. And so guided by the Spirit, these men assembled the profession of faith. A statement that is still said in Church every Sunday for 1700 years.

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible; And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by Whom all things were made; Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man; And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried. And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father. And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end. And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the Prophets; And I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the Life of the world to come.

Amen.

 

[Sweden]

In the year 325 AD, Bishops gathered in Nicaea to address the growing problem of Arianism in the Church. Arians wrongfully believed that Jesus was a created being, and not the one true God. And so guided by the Spirit, these men assembled the profession of faith. A statement that is still said in Church every Sunday for 1700 years.

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible; And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by Whom all things were made; Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man; And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried. And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father. And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end. And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the Prophets; And I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the Life of the world to come.

Amen.

Why should we care what a bunch of ignorant old men believed in 325?

 

[joluoto]

I think it's always more interesting to look at the people to reject the creed and why they rejected it. Also the current version of the Nicene creed is not the original, because it was amended in 381 during the First Council of Constantinople.

This is the og Nicence Creed:

Translated from Greek of course, since that was the language of the early church. But the whole point was to ostracise the Arian Christians who believed the supposed teaching os Arius (we actually don't really know if Arius himself subsribed to this, because his writings are mostly lost) that argued that the Son was a creation of the Father, and thus distinct from the Father. And thus since the Son was made, it also meant the Son hadn't always existed and there must have been a time before the Son.

 

[ataraxia]

Like many politicians, the emperor Constantine understood how religion could be exploited for political purposes. He was ruling over an empire with many different religions, sects, and creeds- and it was disunified, fragmented, and crumbling. He needed a new state religion to try to keep the empire unified- and in Christianity he saw potential.

But to be able to use it in that way, he needed it to have some sort of coherent and unified set of beliefs, and these early church fathers were not giving it to him. They were just spouting a bunch of wildly differing, warring, feuding, and disunified ideologies. So he told them they had to meet and finally agree to a common set of beliefs. He told him they could not leave the meeting until they did, and he personally showed up himself and breathed down their necks until they did.

And that’s how the Nicean Creed was born.

 

[L88]

In the year 325 AD, Bishops gathered in Nicaea to address the growing problem of Arianism in the Church. Arians wrongfully believed that Jesus was a created being, and not the one true God. And so guided by the Spirit, these men assembled the profession of faith. A statement that is still said in Church every Sunday for 1700 years.

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible; And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by Whom all things were made; Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man; And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried. And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. And ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father. And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end. And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the Prophets; And I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the Life of the world to come.

Amen.

I get some people need to have the mysticism of religion, but the important thing about Jesus is his teachings and his actions.

"Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?" He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. ' This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

 

[Daisy]

QUICK FACTS:​

“The Nicene Creed is actually not the product of the First Council of Nicea (325) . . . but of the First Council of Constantinople (381),” says The New Westminster Dictionary of Church History.

“The Council of Nicea in 325 stated the crucial formula for [the yet future Trinity] doctrine in its confession that the Son is ‘of the same substance . . . as the Father.’”—Encyclopædia Britannica.

“The Christian Bible, including the New Testament, has no trinitarian statements or speculations concerning a trinitary deity.”—Encyclopædia Britannica.

“The doctrine of the trinity . . . is not a product of the earliest Christian period, and we do not find it carefully expressed before the end of the second century.”—Library of Early Christianity—Gods and the One God.

“In order to articulate the dogma of the Trinity, the [Catholic] Church had to develop her own terminology with the help of certain notions of philosophical origin.”—Catechism of the Catholic Church.

What the Nicene Creed says:

“We believe . . . in one Lord Jesus Christ . . . that is of the substance of the Father, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God.”

What the Bible says:

“My Father is greater than I [Jesus].”—John 14:28.a

“I [Jesus] ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God.”—John 20:17.

“To us there is but one God, the Father.”—1 Corinthians 8:6.

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”—1 Peter 1:3.

“These things saith the Amen [Jesus], . . . the beginning of the creation of God.”—Revelation 3:14.b

WHY SHOULD YOU CARE?​

Jesus said that “the true worshipers will worship the Father with . . . truth.” (John 4:23) That truth has been recorded in the Bible. (John 17:17) Does the Bible teach that the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit are three persons in one God?

For one thing, the Bible does not mention the word “Trinity.” For another, Jesus never claimed to be equal to God. Instead, Jesus worshipped God. (Luke 22:41-44) A third line of evidence concerns Jesus’ relationship with his followers. Even after he was raised from the dead to the spirit realm, Jesus called his followers “my brothers.” (Matthew 28:10) Were they brothers of Almighty God? Of course not! But through their faith in Christ—God’s preeminent Son—they too became sons of the one Father. (Galatians 3:26) Compare some additional scriptures with the following statement from the creed attributed to the Council of Nicaea.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102013286

 

[Parker_Chess]

QUICK FACTS:​

“The Nicene Creed is actually not the product of the First Council of Nicea (325) . . . but of the First Council of Constantinople (381),” says The New Westminster Dictionary of Church History.

“The Council of Nicea in 325 stated the crucial formula for [the yet future Trinity] doctrine in its confession that the Son is ‘of the same substance . . . as the Father.’”—Encyclopædia Britannica.

“The Christian Bible, including the New Testament, has no trinitarian statements or speculations concerning a trinitary deity.”—Encyclopædia Britannica.

“The doctrine of the trinity . . . is not a product of the earliest Christian period, and we do not find it carefully expressed before the end of the second century.”—Library of Early Christianity—Gods and the One God.

“In order to articulate the dogma of the Trinity, the [Catholic] Church had to develop her own terminology with the help of certain notions of philosophical origin.”—Catechism of the Catholic Church.

What the Nicene Creed says:

“We believe . . . in one Lord Jesus Christ . . . that is of the substance of the Father, God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God.”

What the Bible says:

“My Father is greater than I [Jesus].”—John 14:28.a

“I [Jesus] ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God.”—John 20:17.

“To us there is but one God, the Father.”—1 Corinthians 8:6.

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”—1 Peter 1:3.

“These things saith the Amen [Jesus], . . . the beginning of the creation of God.”—Revelation 3:14.b

WHY SHOULD YOU CARE?​

Jesus said that “the true worshipers will worship the Father with . . . truth.” (John 4:23) That truth has been recorded in the Bible. (John 17:17) Does the Bible teach that the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit are three persons in one God?

For one thing, the Bible does not mention the word “Trinity.” For another, Jesus never claimed to be equal to God. Instead, Jesus worshipped God. (Luke 22:41-44) A third line of evidence concerns Jesus’ relationship with his followers. Even after he was raised from the dead to the spirit realm, Jesus called his followers “my brothers.” (Matthew 28:10) Were they brothers of Almighty God? Of course not! But through their faith in Christ—God’s preeminent Son—they too became sons of the one Father. (Galatians 3:26) Compare some additional scriptures with the following statement from the creed attributed to the Council of Nicaea.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102013286

The early Christians believed in the Trinity go read the Holy Fathers people who actually studied from the Apostles (Ignatius of Antioch). Just because the creed wasn't formulated until a later date doesn't mean that it wasn't understood, believed, and taught.

And the Father is God, he is the head of the Trinity. The Son and Spirit proceed from the Father. Even Jesus saying "The Father is greater than I" is consistent with our belief. But if you look at Scripture in it's totality (not hand selected verses), it becomes clear. From the beginning, where the Trinity was present in Creation, through the Old Testament prophets where the Angel of the Lord was sent and also worshipped, to the moment Jesus was baptized where the Fathers voice was present, the spirit descended down, and of course the Son Jesus Christ. You can't consider yourself apart of the Historic Christian faith and reject the Triune God.

And you're disconnecting yourself from 2,000 years of Christian thinking because you believe every single one of these Christians many who were persecuted and martyred for the faith, are wrong. People who shed blood for Christ. And you have the ego to say these people are wrong and only Jehovah's Organization is correct. Reconsider your beliefs!

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Why should we care what a bunch of ignorant old men believed in 325?

Because of the most important part of the story which @Parker_Chess left out.

Santa Claus got so pissed off, he punched Arius in face at Council of Nicaea. Santa Claus!

Not so jolly back in 325, was he?

 

[Parker_Chess]

I think it's always more interesting to look at the people to reject the creed and why they rejected it. Also the current version of the Nicene creed is not the original, because it was amended in 381 during the First Council of Constantinople.

This is the og Nicence Creed:

Translated from Greek of course, since that was the language of the early church. But the whole point was to ostracise the Arian Christians who believed the supposed teaching os Arius (we actually don't really know if Arius himself subsribed to this, because his writings are mostly lost) that argued that the Son was a creation of the Father, and thus distinct from the Father. And thus since the Son was made, it also meant the Son hadn't always existed and there must have been a time before the Son.

Anathema!
The son is eternally in the bosom of the Father. He was firstborn of all creation and is one with the Father true God from true God.

 

[Lex Talionis]

WHY SHOULD YOU CARE?

What if one doesn't?

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Anathema!
The son is eternally in the bosom of the Father. He was firstborn of all creation and is one with the Father true God from true God.

Firstborn of all creation means just what it says. The first of all creation to be born. Thus a created being.

It's also implicit in the Father-Son relationship. If Jesus was as old as God, that would make them twin brothers.

 

[Parker_Chess]

I get some people need to have the mysticism of religion, but the important thing about Jesus is his teachings and his actions.

"Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?" He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. ' This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

It's still important to know the God we worship. Which is why the Nicene Creed was a necessary statement of faith by the Church.

I think 'just follow Jesus' will make you a good person. But won't save if you don't believe he's truly God.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

It's still important to know the God we worship. Which is why the Nicene Creed was a necessary statement of faith by the Church.

I think 'just follow Jesus' will make you a good person. But won't save if you don't believe he's truly God.

You are rejecting what the Bible says about salvation then.

"If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." -Romans 10:9

Both of those things can be done without believing that Jesus is God.

 

[Revelation]

Firstborn of all creation means just what it says. The first of all creation to be born. Thus a created being.

AC take it one step further. yes he was born of Mary, we get that with the christmas story.

eh......

doesn't end there though.

Jesus said, before Abraham was, i am. basically before Abraham was born he was the I AM or God. we find in the bible that Jesus was the Creator and other things.

AC, dig deeper and understand more theology.

It's also implicit in the Father-Son relationship. If Jesus was as old as God, that would make them twin brothers.

different kind of son and the second in the Trinity.

John 8:58 (KJV):
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Meaning:
This statement is a powerful declaration by Jesus of His divinity. By saying “Before Abraham was, I am,” Jesus uses the divine name “I AM,” which God used to identify Himself to Moses (Exodus 3:14). This was a clear claim to being God, which is why His listeners picked up stones to throw at Him (as seen in the following verse, John 8:59).


Summary:
“Before Abraham was, I am” is a theological cornerstone in Christian belief, emphasizing Jesus’ eternal nature and identity as God. https://www.perplexity.ai/search/kjv-before-abraham-was-i-am-XNSAeR7vQROuv6DfLsPwnQ

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

AC take it one step further. yes he was born of Mary, we get that with the christmas story.

That can't be what is meant by "firstborn of all creation" though, because there were many births before that. When Jesus was born to Mary, it wasn't His first birth. He was, wait for it...

...born again!

Jesus said, before Abraham was, i am. basically before Abraham was born he was the I AM or God. we find in the bible that Jesus was the Creator and other things.

Adam was before Abraham as well. Does that make Adam God as well?

 

[Revelation]

That can't be what is meant by "firstborn of all creation" though, because there were many births before that. When Jesus was born to Mary, it wasn't His first birth. He was, wait for it...

...born again!

AC, Jesus was incarnated; meaning he moved out of heaven into a body that Mary gave birth too.

before Mary giving birth he existed before Abraham; the Jews understood that to mean that he was God.

look in Genesis, and God said let US make man in our image. the US is the Trinity, the pluralness of God, the 3 in 1

the Old Testament folks didn't get it, but it was there all the time. many christians to this day don't get it either.

and don't ask me to explain much about 3 persons in one, i just believe the Bible. wait till heaven i guess.

Adam was before Abraham as well. Does that make Adam God as well?

no because Adam was Created and sinned against God. Adam lived 900 plus years and died.

@tosca1 is our Trinity expert and will be back in a while, but she has done a lot of good splaining concerning the Trinity. @LittleNipper is pretty good also; most have explained it over and over, but i don't know what it takes for people to get it.

i understood and accepted this as a child; God is so much greater than our pin head sized brains, which cause many to stumble on Eternal infinite truth.

again, i have to just step aside and yield to the Bible teachers on the Trinity.

.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

AC, Jesus was incarnated; meaning he moved out of heaven into a body that Mary gave birth too.

before Mary giving birth he existed before Abraham; the Jews understood that to mean that he was God.

If so, that was pretty silly of them lot's of people existed before Abraham.

look in Genesis, and God said let US make man in our image. the US is the Trinity, the pluralness of God, the 3 in 1

Because He had already created Jesus.*

no because Adam was Created and sinned against God. Adam lived 900 plus years and died.

How could Adam have been created if he lived before Abraham? Are you suggesting that living before Abraham isn't the same thing as being God?



*Really he was talking to Asherah at that point, before the messy breakup.

 

[Daisy]

Firstborn of all creation means just what it says. The first of all creation to be born. Thus a created being.

It's also implicit in the Father-Son relationship. If Jesus was as old as God, that would make them twin brothers.

Excellent points that will be glossed over from the crowd...

 

[Revelation]

If so, that was pretty silly of them lot's of people existed before Abraham.

true. lots of people lived before Abraham.

but the Jews understood the 'I AM' to mean the Almighty God. when Jesus said before Abraham was: I AM, they accused him of claiming to be God. (he claimed to be God and was God, and they got that part correct)...

Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Because He had already created Jesus.*

you find out in Hebrews that Jesus created the whole world...........again proving he was God

How could Adam have been created if he lived before Abraham? Are you suggesting that living before Abraham isn't the same thing as being God?

??? Adam was created the first human being, the Eve next.

lots of people live before Abraham; but if i told you that i lived before Abraham today on this forum. LOL, you would say i am very daft; you would be correct in yur assessment.

*Really he was talking to Asherah at that point, before the messy breakup.

 

[Daisy]

It's not as complicated as the crowd wants to make it sound...the firstborn of all creation means just that...Jehovah God created Jesus Christ before He created anything else, so yes, Jesus existed before Abraham...before the heavens and earth were created...the firstborn of ALL creation...

 

[Daisy]

No, the trinity cannot be explained because it does not make not reasonable...

“Beyond the Grasp of Human Reason”

THIS confusion is widespread. The Encyclopedia Americana notes that the doctrine of the Trinity is considered to be “beyond the grasp of human reason.”

Many who accept the Trinity view it that same way. Monsignor Eugene Clark says: “God is one, and God is three. Since there is nothing like this in creation, we cannot understand it, but only accept it.” Cardinal John O’Connor states: “We know that it is a very profound mystery, which we don’t begin to understand.” And Pope John Paul II speaks of “the inscrutable mystery of God the Trinity.”

Thus, A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge says: “Precisely what that doctrine is, or rather precisely how it is to be explained, Trinitarians are not agreed among themselves.”

We can understand, then, why the New Catholic Encyclopedia observes: “There are few teachers of Trinitarian theology in Roman Catholic seminaries who have not been badgered at one time or another by the question, ‘But how does one preach the Trinity?’ And if the question is symptomatic of confusion on the part of the students, perhaps it is no less symptomatic of similar confusion on the part of their professors.”

The truth of that observation can be verified by going to a library and examining books that support the Trinity. Countless pages have been written attempting to explain it. Yet, after struggling through the labyrinth of confusing theological terms and explanations, investigators still come away unsatisfied.

In this regard, Jesuit Joseph Bracken observes in his book What Are They Saying About the Trinity?: “Priests who with considerable effort learned . . . the Trinity during their seminary years naturally hesitated to present it to their people from the pulpit, even on Trinity Sunday. . . . Why should one bore people with something that in the end they wouldn’t properly understand anyway?” He also says: “The Trinity is a matter of formal belief, but it has little or no [effect] in day-to-day Christian life and worship.” Yet, it is “the central doctrine” of the churches!

Catholic theologian Hans Küng observes in his book Christianity and the World Religions that the Trinity is one reason why the churches have been unable to make any significant headway with non-Christian peoples. He states: “Even well-informed Muslims simply cannot follow, as the Jews thus far have likewise failed to grasp, the idea of the Trinity. . . . The distinctions made by the doctrine of the Trinity between one God and three hypostases do not satisfy Muslims, who are confused, rather than enlightened, by theological terms derived from Syriac, Greek, and Latin. Muslims find it all a word game. . . . Why should anyone want to add anything to the notion of God’s oneness and uniqueness that can only dilute or nullify that oneness and uniqueness?”
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989301

 

[Logician Man]

It's not as complicated as the crowd wants to make it sound...the firstborn of all creation means just that...Jehovah God created Jesus Christ before He created anything else, so yes, Jesus existed before Abraham...before the heavens and earth were created...the firstborn of ALL creation...

GENESIS CHAPTER 1 KJV​

• 1. In the --->beginning<--- God created --->the heaven and the earth.<---

BEGINNING | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary​

BEGINNING definition: 1. the first part of something or the start of something:

 

[LittleNipper]

If so, that was pretty silly of them lot's of people existed before Abraham.

Lots of people were not Jewish.

Because He had already created Jesus.*

lasting or enduring through all time
The Bible never says that the MESSIAH/CHRIST/JESUS was created. The Bible does say in Isaiah 9:6 “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace”. (Everlasting means enduring throughout all time/forever and always existing). So, in this regard the Witnesses don't know what they are saying and are in the fatal error of diminishing the glory of CHRIST/MESSIAH for the sake of their own traditions.

How could Adam have been created if he lived before Abraham? Are you suggesting that living before Abraham isn't the same thing as being God?

The point is that CHRIST was around the entire time. Adam eventually died.

*Really he was talking to Asherah at that point, before the messy breakup.

GOD doesn't waste HIS time talking to pretend (man made) deities.

 

[Daisy]

Jesus is God’s “firstborn” (Col 1:15) as God’s first creation, called “the Word” in his prehuman existence. (Joh 1:1 The word “beginning” in John 1:1 cannot refer to the “beginning” of God the Creator, for he is eternal, having no beginning. (Ps 90:2) It must therefore refer to the beginning of creation, when the Word was brought forth by God as his firstborn Son. The term “beginning” is used in various other texts similarly to describe the start of some period or career or course, such as the “beginning” of the Christian career of those to whom John wrote his first letter (1Jo 2:7; 3:11), the “beginning” of Satan’s rebellious course (1Jo 3:8), or the “beginning” of Judas’ deflection from righteousness. (Joh 6:64; see JUDAS No. 4 [Became Corrupt].) Jesus is the “only-begotten Son” (Joh 3:16) in that he is the only one of God’s sons, spirit or human, created solely by God, for all others were created through, or “by means of,” that firstborn Son.—Col 1:16, 17;
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200004182#h=34:0-34:759

“The beginning” refers to the time when God began his creative work and produced the Word. Thereafter, the Word was used by God in the creation of all other things. (John 1:2, 3) The Bible states that Jesus is “the firstborn of all creation” and that “by means of him all other things were created.”—Colossians 1:15, 16.

Misconception: The Word has always existed.

Fact: The “beginning” referred to in this verse cannot mean “the beginning” of God, because God had no beginning. Jehovahd God is “from everlasting to everlasting.” (Psalm 90:1, 2) However, the Word, Jesus Christ, did have a beginning. He is “the beginning of the creation by God.”—Revelation 3:14.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/pc/r1/lp-e/1200273113/997/0

 

[Daisy]

Prehuman Existence. The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: “In the beginning the Word [Gr., Loʹgos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god [“was divine,” AT; Mo; or “of divine being,” Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God.” Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from “the beginning” must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as “the firstborn of all creation,” “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002451

“I Am”

AT JOHN 8:58 a number of translations, for instance The Jerusalem Bible, have Jesus saying: “Before Abraham ever was, I Am.” Was Jesus there teaching, as Trinitarians assert, that he was known by the title “I Am”? And, as they claim, does this mean that he was Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures, since the King James Version at Exodus 3:14 states: “God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM”?

At Exodus 3:14 (KJ) the phrase “I AM” is used as a title for God to indicate that he really existed and would do what he promised. The Pentateuch and Haftorahs, edited by Dr. J. H. Hertz, says of the phrase: “To the Israelites in bondage, the meaning would be, ‘Although He has not yet displayed His power towards you, He will do so; He is eternal and will certainly redeem you.’ Most moderns follow Rashi [a French Bible and Talmud commentator] in rendering [Exodus 3:14] ‘I will be what I will be.’”

The expression at John 8:58 is quite different from the one used at Exodus 3:14. Jesus did not use it as a name or a title but as a means of explaining his prehuman existence. Hence, note how some other Bible versions render John 8:58:

1869: “From before Abraham was, I have been.” The New Testament, by G. R. Noyes.

1935: “I existed before Abraham was born!” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.

1965: “Before Abraham was born, I was already the one that I am.” Das Neue Testament, by Jörg Zink.

1981: “I was alive before Abraham was born!” The Simple English Bible.

1984: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.

Thus, the real thought of the Greek used here is that God’s created “firstborn,” Jesus, had existed long before Abraham was born.—Colossians 1:15; Proverbs 8:22, 23, 30; Revelation 3:14.

Again, the context shows this to be the correct understanding. This time the Jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to “have seen Abraham” although, as they said, he was not yet 50 years old. (Joh 8 Verse 57) Jesus’ natural response was to tell the truth about his age. So he naturally told them that he “was alive before Abraham was born!”—The Simple English Bible.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989307?q=trinity+texts&p=sen