The man's right.

[kamino]

I hear so much about women this and women that, but what about the father? It does take two. If I had a GF that I knocked up and she wanted the abortion, but I wanted the child, I would take care of it and raise it on my own without her help, then don't I get that right? I mean half that DNA is mine. Your not just aborting your child but your also killing MY child. Before I am accussed on anyhting just knw that I am PRO-Choice and this is just food for thought. Should the man have an inharent right to raise his own children? The reason I bring this up is because I had two friends that this situation happened to. Only she did it in secret and when he found out he was furious and ended up resenting her for several years. The relationship was damaged beyond repair, he was never again able to look at her as anything other then the women that killed his child. I feel for the poor guy, I really do.

 

[Jerry]

I hear so much about women this and women that, but what about the father? It does take two. If I had a GF that I knocked up and she wanted the abortion, but I wanted the child, I would take care of it and raise it on my own without her help, then don't I get that right? I mean half that DNA is mine. Your not just aborting your child but your also killing MY child. Before I am accussed on anyhting just knw that I am PRO-Choice and this is just food for thought. Should the man have an inharent right to raise his own children? The reason I bring this up is because I had two friends that this situation happened to. Only she did it in secret and when he found out he was furious and ended up resenting her for several years. The relationship was damaged beyond repair, he was never again able to look at her as anything other then the women that killed his child. I feel for the poor guy, I really do.

These are the facts:

Your sperm was a gift. It stopped being yours the moment it left your body. Crime labs can test it, your GF can convert it into a ZEF, and you have already had your say by choosing to give it away.

Until the baby is born, you have few if any rights at all. I have heard of fathers being awarded the right to know about the pregnancy, but nothing more.

If you don't want it but she does, to bad.

If you want it but she doesn't, to bad.

You assume the risk of pregnancy when you have sex and you must face the consequences of your actions be they good or bad.

A wise man will see his worth to his children and make sure he is in a loving, committed relationship before making them.

 

[1069]

Agreed. The (putative) "father" should have to pay half for the abortion.
But- haha- good luck with that.
Oh yeah, the (putative) "father" should also have the right to custody of the aborted fetus, if he so desires; he's welcome to shove it up one of his own bodily orifices if he'd like to attempt to gestate it himself.

What he's not welcome to do is attempt to commandeer a woman's body and deny her her right to bodily sovereignty, just because he once spooged in her, as if marking somebody with your bodily secretions signifies ownership, like a dog peeing on a fire hydrant or something.

 

[kamino]

If I hand you $10 and say nothing are you going to spend it? Because if you do then you would be wrong. Just because you may be holding my money does not make it yours. It is still my personal property, as with my sperm. It is in fact a part of my body holding my DNA. It is not yours untill stated. In no way was any statement made or any agreement that she may keep his sperm or that is is a gift.

 

[kamino]

then I want my sperm back :doh

 

[1069]

If I hand you $10 and say nothing are you going to spend it? Because if you do then you would be wrong. Just because you may be holding my money does not make it yours. It is still my personal property, as with my sperm. It is in fact a part of my body holding my DNA. It is not yours untill stated. In no way was any statement made or any agreement that she may keep his sperm or that is is a gift.

We're going to have to agree to disagree.
I'm unbudgeable. I'm unshockable. Un-guilt-trippable.
Absolutely staunch in my defense of women's right to bodily sovereignty.
I'm a proud mother of two grown kids, and I've had an abortion.
My body is mine, and no man, no government or religious entity, nobody, nobody, has any say in my reproductive choices.

All I can say as far as "men's rights" go, is that you have the right to interview your potential sex partners before you have sex with them, and make sure they're on the same page as you as far as this matter is concerned.
You could say, for instance, "Do you agree that if we start having sex, I own your body and get to dictate your reproductive choices for you?"
And if they say, "Yes", then terrific! Time to get it on.

But if they later change their mind and decide they don't want to be pregnant
even though your condom broke, there's nothing you can do about it.

A man does not become a "father" by spooging in a woman.
A man becomes a father by parenting, and he cannot parent until there is a child. He can't be an active participant until then.
Until a child is born, a woman's body provides for all the fetus needs. The man can do nothing to help the child, although he can offer support to the woman. It's her choice if she wants to accept it.
On the flip side, the fetus takes what it needs from the woman's body regardless of whether or not she wishes to provide it, regardless of whether she wishes to be a parent. It takes what it needs from her body without her consent.
This is in no way a symbiotic relationship, from a physiological perspective.

If the woman decides she wishes to sever this relationship by terminating the pregnancy, that is her choice. The man wasn't part of it. It was between her and the fetus.

 

[kamino]

A man becomes a father by parenting, and he cannot parent until there is a child. He can't be an active participant until then.

Of this point I strongly beg to differ. When my wife was pregnant both of my children would react to the sound of my voice while in the womb. I would lay there for hours with my wife rubbing her belly singing and talking to my children before they were born and still receiving a response to me. I was as much a father then as I am now that they are 3 and 1.


As far as the man's right in the say of the matter I agree. It's just sad that a women could either tell the man I'm not going to have your baby, your baby is going to die, or she can say even though you do not want the baby I am going to have it anyways and you are going to have to pay me for the next 18 years. It just does not seem right.

 

[MC.no.spin]

She may not want the baby because she thinks he is an asshole and doesn't want a family with him. If she doesn't want her baby to have a father like that, I can respect that.

He'll simply have to find someone else. Big deal.

 

[kamino]

She may not want the baby because she thinks he is an asshole and doesn't want a family with him. If she doesn't want her baby to have a father like that, I can respect that.

He'll simply have to find someone else. Big deal.

If that be the case, the man should be able to walk up and punch in the stomach trying to kill the baby, stateing, I do not want a family with you?"

 

[MC.no.spin]

Of this point I strongly beg to differ. When my wife was pregnant both of my children would react to the sound of my voice while in the womb. I would lay there for hours with my wife rubbing her belly singing and talking to my children before they were born and still receiving a response to me. I was as much a father then as I am now that they are 3 and 1.


As far as the man's right in the say of the matter I agree. It's just sad that a women could either tell the man I'm not going to have your baby, your baby is going to die, or she can say even though you do not want the baby I am going to have it anyways and you are going to have to pay me for the next 18 years. It just does not seem right.

Call it a fetus until it is viable and you might feel better about it.

She shouldn't be aborting past that 18 week period (unless her physical health is truly affected), regardless of what daddy thinks.

 

[1069]

Of this point I strongly beg to differ. When my wife was pregnant both of my children would react to the sound of my voice while in the womb. I would lay there for hours with my wife rubbing her belly singing and talking to my children before they were born and still receiving a response to me. I was as much a father then as I am now that they are 3 and 1.


As far as the man's right in the say of the matter I agree. It's just sad that a women could either tell the man I'm not going to have your baby, your baby is going to die, or she can say even though you do not want the baby I am going to have it anyways and you are going to have to pay me for the next 18 years. It just does not seem right.

Biology's a bitch.
You can always complain to the manufacturer, I suppose. :shrug:

You know, I'm sure that within our lifetimes, scientists will develop a way for men to carry fetuses. Of course, the guy would still have to get the egg from somewhere, but there are anonymous egg donors, egg banks.

What's not negotiable, however, is men ever having control over women's bodies and reproductive systems, regardless of whether said women happen to be pregnant or not.
That simply isn't going to happen.
Women are human beings just like you, and they have the same human rights as you do, including the right to sovereignty over their own bodies, including their reproductive organs.

 

[MC.no.spin]

If that be the case, the man should be able to walk up and punch in the stomach trying to kill the baby, stateing, I do not want a family with you?"

He should be able to take over the pregnancy, in theory. Since that isn't possible, he is out of luck. He should go knock another chic up. He's clearly with the wrong girl anyway.

 

[kamino]

Regardless, it still just seems wrong. It seems to me that the man "can be" and I state "can be" not allways, but "can be" the true victim.

 

[1069]

He should be able to take over the pregnancy, in theory. Since that isn't possible, he is out of luck. He should go knock another chic up. He's clearly with the wrong girl anyway.

Yeppers.
If it comes to the point of the man desiring to legally force some woman he knocked up to gestate the fetus, that's a relationship that's going nowhere anyway.
Why would a man want to be associated with someone like that for the rest of his life?
She would despise him utterly, and do everything she could to sabotage his life. And with good reason.

If you want children, find someone who's on the same page.
That is a man's right.

And if you don't want children but would change your mind and want one in the event of an accidental pregnancy, find someone who's on the same page with that.
Lots of cute chickies at those prolife rallies, I'm sure.

(No, really! I swear there are. )

 

[kamino]

We both agree, it is the womans choice and will always be a womans choice and should be a woman's choice.

So in conclusion to this very short thread, I only offer this to all men that think they may ever be in this type of situation. Be carefull and know that in a situation like this you would be the true vicitm, and no one will care and every one will tell you to shut up and deal with it. You would be no different then the wife that is abused in days of old and it was perfectly normal and no one cared. Your pain will fall into darkness and no one will care.

 

[MC.no.spin]

Lots of cute chickies at those prolife rallies, I'm sure.

(No, really! I swear there are. )

Here's proof.

 

[1069]

You would be no different then the wife that is abused in days of old and it was perfectly normal and no one cared. Your pain will fall into darkness and no one will care.

That's absurd.
"No one will care' that you don't have the legal right to control your sexual partner's body.
Boo-hoo. :roll:

Look, I have two sons. I want them to have every civil and human right a person needs, every chance in the world to be happy.
You think I "don't care" about men's rights?
But no, I don't want them to have the right to dictate the reproductive choices of the women they sleep with, or even the women they eventually marry.
I don't want them to think that they own other people's bodies.
Slavery ended some years ago, in case that slipped your attention.

If one of my boys impregnated some girl and she decided to have an abortion and he didn't want her to and felt sad about it, I would tell him all this. Even though that would've been my grandchild.
I would tell him I was sorry he was sad.
I would tell him that he obviously made a wrong choice, and he should learn from it, and choose more wisely next time, and avoid future sadness.

 

[kamino]

No seriously I totally agree with you, and it should be that way, I am just stating from and observation of my friend that it is a sad situation, I feel bad for him.

 

[1069]

No seriously I totally agree with you, and it should be that way, I am just stating from and observation of my friend that it is a sad situation, I feel bad for him.

Ah, you're no fun!
You're supposed to keep arguing with me.

(Just kidding).

 

[kamino]

Ah, you're no fun!
You're supposed to keep arguing with me.

(Just kidding).

lol, oh ok if you insist. But because this is such a weak arguement I am having a hard time keeping this up. I don't think I can come up with a rebutle.

 

[RedAkston]

Agreed. The (putative) "father" should have to pay half for the abortion.
But- haha- good luck with that.
Oh yeah, the (putative) "father" should also have the right to custody of the aborted fetus, if he so desires; he's welcome to shove it up one of his own bodily orifices if he'd like to attempt to gestate it himself.

What he's not welcome to do is attempt to commandeer a woman's body and deny her her right to bodily sovereignty, just because he once spooged in her, as if marking somebody with your bodily secretions signifies ownership, like a dog peeing on a fire hydrant or something.

What a load of crap. I'd say that I expected more out of you, but... :roll:

 

[1069]

What a load of crap. I'd say that I expected more out of you, but... :roll:

Fortunately, neither our government nor any government in the industrialized world shares your opinion.
You're free to hold it, but rendered utterly impotent when it comes to implementing it.
Hahaha. You're powerless and there's nothing you can do.

:laughat: P/N.

:2wave: Huggies, Ten.

 

[Summerwind]

What a load of crap. I'd say that I expected more out of you, but... :roll:

Which part do you find to be crap? You think a man should be able to commandeer a woman's body for nine months? I could see your point if he has arranged for another vessel to carry the child, but if not, there is no way to force the completion of the pregnancy or to force an abortion without taking over the sovereignty of her body.

 

[doughgirl]

1069 said, “Absolutely staunch in my defense of women's right to bodily sovereignty.”

Yes you are. Even killing a nine month old human being in the womb. Now that is something to be proud of isn‘t it?

1069 said,“A man does not become a "father" by spooging in a woman.”

And a woman doesn’t become a “mother” simply by giving birth to a baby either.

1069 said, “A man becomes a father by parenting, and he cannot parent until there is a child. He can't be an active participant until then.”

And neither can a woman.

1069 said, “On the flip side, the fetus takes what it needs from the woman's body regardless of whether or not she wishes to provide it, regardless of whether she wishes to be a parent. It takes what it needs from her body without her consent.
This is in no way a symbiotic relationship, from a physiological perspective.”

She INVITED THE SPERM INSIDE HER BODY. SHE TOOK THE RISKS AND EVERYTHING THAT WENT WITH THEM. It was by HER ACTIONS……….THAT THE LIFE HAPPENED.

It takes what it needs BECAUSE SHE INVITED IT IN. You don’t ask a guest over for dinner, and then let them sit while you eat. Or kill them because they insisted on eating at YOUR INVITATION.

M.C said, “She may not want the baby because she thinks he is an asshole and doesn't want a family with him. If she doesn't want her baby to have a father like that, I can respect that. He'll simply have to find someone else. Big deal.”

Well gee he was good enough to lay back and spread her legs for wasn’t he? LOL Yea she should sleep around with multitudes of guys……..you know weed out the bad seeds. Pick and choose, and abort the ones she doesn’t want.


You completely discount DNA. Biologically that unborn is half his. It just happens to be in her body. She however spread her legs and allowed him to deposit his sperm. She called the shots. A child is conceived because she invited his sperm in.

No but she certainly can have the baby……then nail his ass to the wall and ask for support. SHE SHOULDN’T GET ONE DIME OF SUPPORT. NOT ONE DIME. The father should just say I do not want the child and not be held accountable.

No woman based on our laws should get a dime of support. If the baby in the womb was not his before birth, it shouldn’t be his after. She should get a big fat NOTHING.

What a sick society we live in.

1069 said, “Women are human beings just like you, and they have the same human rights as you do, including the right to sovereignty over their own bodies, including their reproductive organs.”

Yes they are humans beings. Human beings that also have the right to slaughter, to dismember a human child alive at any gestational age. They call the shots for the child they carry. A child whose heart is beating……that is not actually a part of them.


And it was by her actions that the child was conceived. She took the chance and should have to live with it.

1069 said, “Why would a man want to be associated with someone like that for the rest of his life?”

Why would some guy want to be with any slut that would treat him that way?

1069 said, “Lots of cute chickies at those prolife rallies, I'm sure.”

You are a human size piece of ****.

1069 said, “You think I "don't care" about men's rights?’

You are a feminNazi and your views are pathetic. You could care less about anyone but yourself because quite simply you are a narcissist. And for you that is…..abortion is just one of the most cherished cornerstones of America today. You will stop at nothing to insult and demean those that stand on life…those with morals.

Oh its good to be back............LOL

 

[1069]

Yes you are. Even killing a nine month old human being in the womb. Now that is something to be proud of isn‘t it?



And a woman doesn’t become a “mother” simply by giving birth to a baby either.




And neither can a woman.




She INVITED THE SPERM INSIDE HER BODY. SHE TOOK THE RISKS AND EVERYTHING THAT WENT WITH THEM. It was by HER ACTIONS……….THAT THE LIFE HAPPENED.

It takes what it needs BECAUSE SHE INVITED IT IN. You don’t ask a guest over for dinner, and then let them sit while you eat. Or kill them because they insisted on eating at YOUR INVITATION.




Well gee he was good enough to lay back and spread her legs for wasn’t he? LOL Yea she should sleep around with multitudes of guys……..you know weed out the bad seeds. Pick and choose, and abort the ones she doesn’t want.


You completely discount DNA. Biologically that unborn is half his. It just happens to be in her body. She however spread her legs and allowed him to deposit his sperm. She called the shots. A child is conceived because she invited his sperm in.

No but she certainly can have the baby……then nail his ass to the wall and ask for support. SHE SHOULDN’T GET ONE DIME OF SUPPORT. NOT ONE DIME. The father should just say I do not want the child and not be held accountable.

No woman based on our laws should get a dime of support. If the baby in the womb was not his before birth, it shouldn’t be his after. She should get a big fat NOTHING.

What a sick society we live in.




Yes they are humans beings. Human beings that also have the right to slaughter, to dismember a human child alive at any gestational age. They call the shots for the child they carry. A child whose heart is beating……that is not actually a part of them.


And it was by her actions that the child was conceived. She took the chance and should have to live with it.



Why would some guy want to be with any slut that would treat him that way?




You are a human size piece of ****.





You are a feminNazi and your views are pathetic. You could care less about anyone but yourself because quite simply you are a narcissist. And for you that is…..abortion is just one of the most cherished cornerstones of America today. You will stop at nothing to insult and demean those that stand on life…those with morals.

Oh its good to be back............LOL

Hi, Doughgirl. Long time no see.
Still your usual pleasant self, I observe.
How's the hip?