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you normally don't go after those that support you.
the fact is that all those evil 1%'ers are mostly business people that create jobs
and invest in peoples companies etc ...
it is easy to demonize people that allow people the freedom of not depending on the government.
envy is not a good argument and I wish liberals would just admit that is all this is.
But business people don't create jobs, their companies do. And, the jobs could not be created unless there was demand from the poor. LOL
Why? It won't help the poor.
The only thing that moves people out of poverty is job skills and education.
If they refuse to do either then how is taxing the rich going to help them?
The government doesn't get anyone out of poverty it keeps people there.
Agreed.I've never been against raising taxes on the rich but all of the rich, not just business owners and CEO's.
But, everyone over the poverty line should be paying at least some taxes, not zero.
I'm going to ask this again since you never answered before. What would you rather have 30k at a 0% tax rate or 10M at a 90% tax rate? Conservatives are always so quick to point out that "life isn't fair" when pointing out the plight of the poor and the futility of an equal society and I'm mostly ok with that. The question is when you turn that idea around, why does fairness jump back into the conversation so quick.It is ridiculous to claim that someone who pays millions in taxes is not paying their fair share while 43% pay zero.
Why not? We're wasting human capital right now.And, we should not raise taxes to spend more.
We might be able to do both.We should raise taxes to cut down on the budget deficit.
What happened to the 43% who pay zero taxes?
Yep. That is hypocrisy at it's finest. They rail against the CEO's for making so much money at the expense of the little guy while these very same rich actors demand multi-millions per movie, at the expense of the little guy who has to pay inflated prices to see their movies.
Seriously, he walked right into that one. Honestly, this is the crap that made me abandon the idea that I was an "independent". It usually takes just one post to expose some serious flaw in any logic they might have. The really bad part is they never care. They add in some other anecdote, some strawman, some random statement that nobody was talking about etc.Outstanding, pdog!
MR is on a campaign in this community to delegitimise the call for efforts to address the extremely unjust and highly dysfunctional explosion in income inequality that has developed over the past thirty-five years. In this thread, he plays the simple-minded game of claiming that the wealth accumulated over the years by the Clintons makes them hypocrites. (Fwiw, I have no idea why he includes the Obummers in this. What information does he have that irks him regarding their income? The only thing I've heard about it is that they have given a LOT more to charity over the years than the grotesque pig that's been put up to run against Hellory by the ignorant toads that voted for him in the GOP primaries.)
Excellent job of exposing the … hypocrisy … of the point raised in this thread. OK, MR, let's raise the taxes on those crooked, scheming, murdering Clintons a few percent. Are you saying they oppose that proposal?
Particularly since the left never attacks republican politicians.Is there any point to this thread? I mean other than an opportunity to post mindless attacks on Democratic politicians? I suppose that's standard fare for some in this community.
there is still plenty of taxes that everybody pays (outside of just FIT). So what? It is FIT that funds most government expenses, therefore EVERYONE over the poverty line should be contributing something. The rich pay all of these other taxes as well, and probably more dollars to boot. SS and Medicare are a different category.
I'm going to ask this again since you never answered before. What would you rather have 30k at a 0% tax rate or 10M at a 90% tax rate? This is stuff for liberal dreams. Why don't we talk about reality instead of talking about dreams? The fact is that the top 60% pay 60% of all FIT, the top 80% pay 80% of all FIT and the top 90% pay 90% of all FIT. What could be more fair than that?
It's ridiculous to have a national debt of 20 trillion dollars, adding at least another 500 billion to it every year so if we are going to raise tax revenues those should go toward lowering the deficit, not spending more money. That's why the Republicans are against raising taxes - because they know that for every dollar in extra tax revenues that are collected, the Democrats will spend two dollars.
Oh, we're throwing the poverty line in there now eh? Exactly how many people above the poverty line don't pay FIT?So what? It is FIT that funds most government expenses, therefore EVERYONE over the poverty line should be contributing something. The rich pay all of these other taxes as well, and probably more dollars to boot. SS and Medicare are a different category.
This is stuff for liberal dreams. Why don't we talk about reality instead of talking about dreams? The fact is that the top 60% pay 60% of all FIT, the top 80% pay 80% of all FIT and the top 90% pay 90% of all FIT. What could be more fair than that?
I say we raise taxes on them. You game?
Why should we have to?
Why aren't Hillary and Obama donating their money so they make an average of 15.00 an hour?
Teens from less privileged backgrounds face numerous barriers to finding jobs. They are less likely to own a car (or have access to one), and often live in areas where jobs are scarce. Their parents are less likely to be able to help them get a foot in the door at a local business. They may attend schools that are, or are perceived as, inferior, making them less attractive to prospective employers. And they may face discrimination based on race, class or other factors. None of those barriers is new, of course, but they may have grown higher as the U.S. has become more unequal and more segregated by class.If they made the money honestly I don't care how much money they have. it has no affect on me. just as if bill gates or warren buffett make another billion dollars. it has no affect on me my wife or what I make.
the fact that you think it does shows that you need to do more studying on how economics actually works.
If you want to have a lower deficit then be my guest. Just make sure you do that by taxing the rich - that's the only way to get additional revenue without hurting the economy (low marginal propensity to consume).
Oh, we're throwing the poverty line in there now eh? Exactly how many people above the poverty line don't pay FIT?
I have no idea what point you are trying to make here. I also don't know what "dream" you are talking about. You don't think that there are people making 30k and 10M? It was an insanely simply question to answer, and you sidestepped it because it hurts your point. Fairness has nothing to do with anything.
I don't know, don't really know what the op is looking for on this thread.
Ludin said:If they made the money honestly I don't care how much money they have. it has no affect on me. just as if bill gates or warren buffett make another billion dollars. it has no affect on me my wife or what I make.
the fact that you think it does shows that you need to do more studying on how economics actually works.
No, actually, I don't have to explain ANYTHING to you....that is NOT addressed to YOU. If YOU cannot figure out the connection between the effects of inequality and the ability for the poor to gain employment, then you once again prove you are NOT a cohort of doctors.uh huh.. that's nice.. now please explain how its relevant to Ludins post:
Well.. it would seem to me.. that when you make millions of dollars.. and you think that you making millions of dollars is "unfair" and needs to be addressed..
I've always thrown the poverty line in there. It is not something new for me. The poverty line is around 15% of the population and 43% pay no federal income taxes. That means approximately 28% could be paying something instead of zero.
Well.. it would seem to me.. that when you make millions of dollars.. and you think that you making millions of dollars is "unfair" and needs to be addressed.. then it would behoove you to start with yourself.. and divest yourself of all those millions of dollars that are making you unequal.
So why hasn;t Obama and Hillary given all those millions up for charity? Or given it to the government.
Its seems a little odd.. that when you make millions of dollars and complain about the inequity of it all.. that you then call to raise taxes on those making 250,000.
See.. the real issue is that when these rich folks talk about raising taxes.. they are generally NOT talking about raising their taxes.. they are talking about raising other peoples taxes. Like the small businessman making 250,000.
Or raising marginal rates on earned income.. while meanwhile.. they make their money with capital gains. etc.
Its seems a little odd.. that when you make millions of dollars and complain about the inequity of it all.. that you then call to raise taxes on those making 250,000.
No, actually, I don't have to explain ANYTHING to you....that is NOT addressed to YOU. If YOU cannot figure out the connection between the effects of inequality and the ability for the poor to gain employment, then you once again prove you are NOT a cohort of doctors.
Where does Hellory's tax plan focus on raising taxes on $250K+ hpuseholds?
Her reforms would raise taxes slightly and collect billions over the next decade. Here’s what she’s proposing:
The Tax Policy Center estimates that most Americans wouldn’t be affected by Clinton’s proposed tax hikes, which target the highest income earners. The increases would average $78,000, equal to a 5 percent increase in after-tax income, for the top 1 percent of taxpayers and $520,000 or about 7.6 percent for the top 0.1 percent.
- Create a 4 percent surcharge on incomes over $5 million and impose a 30 percent minimum rate on adjusted gross incomes above $1 million
- Limit itemized deduction benefits at 28 percent; raise rates on medium-term capital gains to between 27.8 percent and 47.4 percent; increase the top estate tax rate to 45 percent and reduce the threshold to $3.5 million; limit the value of tax-deferred retirement accounts
- Create a new caregiver tax credit up to $1,200
Middle-income households would pay about $44 more on average, equal to a tenth of a percent of change. The poorest filers would lose an additional $4, equal to no change.
Clinton’s reforms to the corporate tax code aim to tax profits earned by multinational businesses in the United States and U.S. companies earned abroad. Clinton is also seeking to penalize excessive risk taking in the financial sector while incentivizing business programs that help workers and distressed communities.
Analysts say Clinton’s proposals would increase feder,al revenues by $500 billion to $1.1 trillion in the first decade. — "PolitiFact's guide to the 2016 presidential candidate tax plans" PolitiFact, April 4, 2016
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I have never heard any politician say that it is unfair for people to make millions of dollars. Can you quote any politician who said that?
Or is this another right wing myth?
I guess I would need to see something that says they're specifically excluding themselves from their policy changes.
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