The GOP Rebrands Itself as the Party of Tax Cheats

RedFishBlueFish · Oct 22, 2021

Once upon a time, Republicans portrayed themselves as the party of small government and family values. Recently, though, GOP leaders have been cobbling together a new coalition, welcoming insurrectionists, white-nationalist tiki-torchers and people who think Bill Gates is trying to microchip them. - The latest recruit to the Big Tent? Tax cheats.

(1) Each year, about $600 billion in taxes legally owed are not paid. For scale, that’s roughly equal to all federal income taxes paid by the lowest-earning 90 percent of taxpayers, according to Treasury Department data.

(2) There are some types of income for which little or no third-party reporting exists. These income categories — including partnership, proprietorship and rental income — accrue disproportionately to high earners. The government has much less ability to tell when these filers are misreporting; as a result, they can more easily get away with cheating.

(3) When it comes to ordinary wage and salary income, taxpayers are remarkably forthcoming, with noncompliance averaging only 1 percent; for those more “opaque” income sources, noncompliance is an estimated 55 percent.

(4) An effective response would involve more third-party reporting so the IRS has greater visibility into who’s likely fudging their numbers. Then the agency could better target its audit decisions.

(5) Only accounts with flows of more than $10,000 not tied to wage income or exempted benefits would be affected — the idea being that the IRS already knows about the wage income anyway. The reporting proposal is estimated to bring in $200 billion to $250 billion in revenue over the next decade, according to Treasury.

(6) This is revenue that would be collected without having to raise a single tax rate, which you’d think Republicans would applaud. Instead, the GOP, backed by the bank lobby, has fought every version of the reporting policy tooth and nail.

(7) The GOP seeks to exploit the confusion of honest, rank-and-file taxpayers. Their income is already quite well reported to the IRS and Americans haven’t considered this a “dragnet” or “infringement on personal privacy.” But suddenly it is — when similar reporting is proposed to ensure high-income people’s tax compliance, too.

(8) Republicans also presumably have another shameful aim: communicating to tax cheats that, now and in the future, the GOP has their backs.

The above from a WAPO opinion piece. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/10/21/gop-rebrands-itself-party-tax-cheats/

tres borrachos · Oct 22, 2021

RedFishBlueFish said:
Once upon a time, Republicans portrayed themselves as the party of small government and family values. Recently, though, GOP leaders have been cobbling together a new coalition, welcoming insurrectionists, white-nationalist tiki-torchers and people who think Bill Gates is trying to microchip them. - The latest recruit to the Big Tent? Tax cheats.

(1) Each year, about $600 billion in taxes legally owed are not paid. For scale, that’s roughly equal to all federal income taxes paid by the lowest-earning 90 percent of taxpayers, according to Treasury Department data.

(2) There are some types of income for which little or no third-party reporting exists. These income categories — including partnership, proprietorship and rental income — accrue disproportionately to high earners. The government has much less ability to tell when these filers are misreporting; as a result, they can more easily get away with cheating.

(3) When it comes to ordinary wage and salary income, taxpayers are remarkably forthcoming, with noncompliance averaging only 1 percent; for those more “opaque” income sources, noncompliance is an estimated 55 percent.

(4) An effective response would involve more third-party reporting so the IRS has greater visibility into who’s likely fudging their numbers. Then the agency could better target its audit decisions.

(5) Only accounts with flows of more than $10,000 not tied to wage income or exempted benefits would be affected — the idea being that the IRS already knows about the wage income anyway. The reporting proposal is estimated to bring in $200 billion to $250 billion in revenue over the next decade, according to Treasury.

(6) This is revenue that would be collected without having to raise a single tax rate, which you’d think Republicans would applaud. Instead, the GOP, backed by the bank lobby, has fought every version of the reporting policy tooth and nail.

(7) The GOP seeks to exploit the confusion of honest, rank-and-file taxpayers. Their income is already quite well reported to the IRS and Americans haven’t considered this a “dragnet” or “infringement on personal privacy.” But suddenly it is — when similar reporting is proposed to ensure high-income people’s tax compliance, too.

(8) Republicans also presumably have another shameful aim: communicating to tax cheats that, now and in the future, the GOP has their backs.

The above from a WAPO opinion piece. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/10/21/gop-rebrands-itself-party-tax-cheats/

The Republicans only want you to pay taxes. They don't want to pay them.

CaughtInThe · Oct 22, 2021

I've never seen a political party more successfully lie about who they are for almost 6 decades. It's been genius.

gdgyva · Oct 22, 2021

First it was $ 600, and now they have raised it to $ 10,000 in annual money flowing through an account

Now....lets be honest here....is this really after the big dollar earner?

Or is this just another way big brother is going to use to get your personal information?

For instance....here is one person it will catch

The guy running the gardening service in the local neighborhood.....might have one or a couple of employees...all of them working on what is commonly referred to as the shadow economy.....gets paid in cash, or checks from his customers, and pays his employees in cash

Yep.....his 60k in banking annually will get tagged....and him not filing will be a problem

This is designed to catch all types....and the majority will be low earners way below 400k annually

eohrnberger · Oct 22, 2021

gdgyva said:
First it was $ 600, and now they have raised it to $ 10,000 in annual money flowing through an account

Now....lets be honest here....is this really after the big dollar earner?

Or is this just another way big brother is going to use to get your personal information?

For instance....here is one person it will catch

The guy running the gardening service in the local neighborhood.....might have one or a couple of employees...all of them working on what is commonly referred to as the shadow economy.....gets paid in cash, or checks from his customers, and pays his employees in cash

Yep.....his 60k in banking annually will get tagged....and him not filing will be a problem

This is designed to catch all types....and the majority will be low earners way below 400k annually

It's little more than spying on the electorate's finances for creating an IRS 'Hit List', for those 80K more IRS agents the admin wants to hire, and keep them busy.
When the process becomes the punishment.

Razoo · Oct 22, 2021

The lower wage folks won't be able to afford legal counsel and big dollar folks always have a legal
team.

Neither the $600 nor the $10,000 numbers will pay back and will further overload the IRS work force that
has been scaled back by the right wing nuts as a back door means of deregulation aka not enough employees to do the work.

Maybe the starting point should be $1,000,000.

Craig234 · Oct 22, 2021

They've long been the party of *rich* tax cheat, it is part of being the part of the rich against the rest of the country. Under Bush there were slashing the budget for audits of the rich, while spending a lot more on automated systems that would catch any problems with the taxes of wage earners.

Razoo · Oct 22, 2021

RedFishBlueFish said:
Once upon a time, Republicans portrayed themselves as the party of small government and family values. Recently, though, GOP leaders have been cobbling together a new coalition, welcoming insurrectionists, white-nationalist tiki-torchers and people who think Bill Gates is trying to microchip them. - The latest recruit to the Big Tent? Tax cheats.

(1) Each year, about $600 billion in taxes legally owed are not paid. For scale, that’s roughly equal to all federal income taxes paid by the lowest-earning 90 percent of taxpayers, according to Treasury Department data.

(2) There are some types of income for which little or no third-party reporting exists. These income categories — including partnership, proprietorship and rental income — accrue disproportionately to high earners. The government has much less ability to tell when these filers are misreporting; as a result, they can more easily get away with cheating.

(3) When it comes to ordinary wage and salary income, taxpayers are remarkably forthcoming, with noncompliance averaging only 1 percent; for those more “opaque” income sources, noncompliance is an estimated 55 percent.

(4) An effective response would involve more third-party reporting so the IRS has greater visibility into who’s likely fudging their numbers. Then the agency could better target its audit decisions.

(5) Only accounts with flows of more than $10,000 not tied to wage income or exempted benefits would be affected — the idea being that the IRS already knows about the wage income anyway. The reporting proposal is estimated to bring in $200 billion to $250 billion in revenue over the next decade, according to Treasury.

(6) This is revenue that would be collected without having to raise a single tax rate, which you’d think Republicans would applaud. Instead, the GOP, backed by the bank lobby, has fought every version of the reporting policy tooth and nail.

(7) The GOP seeks to exploit the confusion of honest, rank-and-file taxpayers. Their income is already quite well reported to the IRS and Americans haven’t considered this a “dragnet” or “infringement on personal privacy.” But suddenly it is — when similar reporting is proposed to ensure high-income people’s tax compliance, too.

(8) Republicans also presumably have another shameful aim: communicating to tax cheats that, now and in the future, the GOP has their backs.

The above from a WAPO opinion piece. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/10/21/gop-rebrands-itself-party-tax-cheats/

party of high crimes and tax evasion

RedFishBlueFish · Oct 22, 2021

gdgyva said:
First it was $ 600, and now they have raised it to $ 10,000 in annual money flowing through an account

Now....lets be honest here....is this really after the big dollar earner?

Or is this just another way big brother is going to use to get your personal information?

For instance....here is one person it will catch

The guy running the gardening service in the local neighborhood.....might have one or a couple of employees...all of them working on what is commonly referred to as the shadow economy.....gets paid in cash, or checks from his customers, and pays his employees in cash

Yep.....his 60k in banking annually will get tagged....and him not filing will be a problem

This is designed to catch all types....and the majority will be low earners way below 400k annually

No. That's BS. Did you hear that on Fox?

Here's a breakdown by income of the percentage of individual returns audited by the IRS during fiscal year 2017:

Adjusted Gross Income	2018 Audit Rate
0	2.04%
$1- $25,000	0.69%
$25,000-$50,000	0.48%
$50,000-$75,000	0.54%
$75,000-$100,000	0.45%
$100,000-$200,000	0.44%
$200,000-$500,000	0.53%
$500,000-$1,000,000	1.10%
1,000,000-$5,000,000	2.21%
$5,000,000-$10,000,000	4.21%
over $10,000,000	6.66%

RedFishBlueFish · Oct 22, 2021

eohrnberger said:
It's little more than spying on the electorate's finances for creating an IRS 'Hit List', for those 80K more IRS agents the admin wants to hire, and keep them busy.
When the process becomes the punishment.

I'd be quite happy to have 80K more IRS agents busy auditing people's taxes. I've faithfully paid my full taxes my whole life and continue to do so without complaint. I'd like to see everybody do so. Tax cheats are anti-patriotic. They are stealing from our country. Find 'em, audit 'em, and prosecute 'em.

eohrnberger · Oct 22, 2021

RedFishBlueFish said:
I'd be quite happy to have 80K more IRS agents busy auditing people's taxes.

RedFishBlueFish said:
I've faithfully paid my full taxes my whole life and continue to do so without complaint.

As have I.

RedFishBlueFish said:
I'd like to see everybody do so. Tax cheats are anti-patriotic. They are stealing from our country. Find 'em, audit 'em, and prosecute 'em.

But that's not what this is about is it?
It is demanding a listing of all the accounts from the bank which have $x combined inflow or outflow in a year.
That's not finding tax cheats. It's spying, at worst, or unjustified data collection on a massive scale overreach, at best, of the electorate's finances. That's what that is.

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The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides that "[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

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How does this not violate this Constitutional amendment?

If the IRS suspects a tax cheat, let them get a search warrant. That's how this works.

You might want to start thinking why you are so eager to give up your Constitutional rights and empower the federal government to violate them.

Roadvirus · Oct 22, 2021

There's a whole list of Democrats in Illinois who have been busted for tax fudging.

Even the current Governor, JB Pricker, has done it:

Illinois Governor Candidate Removed Mansion's Toilets To Dodge Taxes, Report Finds

J.B. Pritzker had five toilets removed so a property would be classified as "uninhabitable" on his taxes, according to the Cook County inspector general. Pritzker says he will pay the county $330,000.

www.npr.org

RedFishBlueFish · Oct 22, 2021

eohrnberger said:
As have I.

But that's not what this is about is it?
It is demanding a listing of all the accounts from the bank which have $x combined inflow or outflow in a year.
That's not finding tax cheats. It's spying, at worst, or unjustified data collection on a massive scale overreach, at best, of the electorate's finances. That's what that is.

Fourth Amendment
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Overview
I. INTERESTS PROTECTED

The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides that "[t]he right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Fourth Amendment

www.law.cornell.edu

How does this not violate this Constitutional amendment?

If the IRS suspects a tax cheat, let them get a search warrant. That's how this works.

You might want to start thinking why you are so eager to give up your Constitutional rights and empower the federal government to violate them.

You've done a good job here of replicating the comments from GOP officials who are supporting tax cheats while hiding behind Constitutional rights.

In the real world, the legislation, if passed, would require only two additional numbers to be reported. The total inflows and outflows for any bank account of more than $10,000 and would exempt wages and Social Security benefits from the $10,000 figure. This would not require reporting of individual transactions of any amount.

The purpose is to find unusual circumstances, such as a taxpayer who reports $10,000 of income, but has $10 million of flows in and out of their bank account.

eohrnberger · Oct 22, 2021

RedFishBlueFish said:
You've done a good job here of replicating the comments from GOP officials who are supporting tax cheats while hiding behind Constitutional rights.

Funny how principals do that, eh? Funny how the truth is consistent from different sources.

What you are doing is parroting the typical leftist government power expansion, tyrannical talking points.

Do please, go after the all the tax cheats you, or the IRS actually, can find, but it'll have to be within the constraints on government when doing so.

RedFishBlueFish said:
In the real world, the legislation, if passed, would require only two additional numbers to be reported.

And a bank account number, right?

RedFishBlueFish said:
The total inflows and outflows for any bank account of more than $10,000 and would exempt wages and Social Security benefits from the $10,000 figure. This would not require reporting of individual transactions of any amount.

The purpose is to find unusual circumstances, such as a taxpayer who reports $10,000 of income, but has $10 million of flows in and out of their bank account.

This is a BS hypothetical. It is an expansion of government powers in clear violation of Constitutional rights. If the IRS suspect a tax cheat they can file for a search warrant to obtain those bank records. This proposal is little more than a permanent search warrant for everyone's bank records.

RedFishBlueFish · Oct 22, 2021

eohrnberger said:
Funny how principals does that, eh?

What you are doing is parroting the typical leftist government power expansion, tyrannical talking points.

Do please, go after the all the tax cheats you, or the IRS actually, can find, but it'll have to be within the constraints on government when doing so.

And a bank account number, right?

I don't have a problem with them having my bank account number, nor information on my total flows. Why should I? I'm not cheating on my taxes. But, I do understand why tax cheats would object.

eohrnberger said:
This is a BS hypothetical. It is an expansion of government powers in clear violation of Constitutional rights. If the IRS suspect a tax cheat they can file for a search warrant to obtain those bank records. This proposal is little more than a permanent search warrant for everyone's bank records.

No it isn't. We're talking about a very simple check. If your monetary inflows and outflows are huge in comparison to your income, you should be audited.

eohrnberger · Oct 22, 2021

RedFishBlueFish said:
I don't have a problem with them having my bank account number, nor information on my total flows. Why should I? I'm not cheating on my taxes. But, I do understand why tax cheats would object.

Your statement is little more than reinforcing how little you care about principals involved, the Constitutional rights we all enjoy and benefit from, as well as the prudent limiting of Government's powers.

Why are you volunteering to live under a tyranny of unlimited government power?

RedFishBlueFish said:
No it isn't.

I'm sorry, but in my view you are wrong.

RedFishBlueFish said:
We're talking about a very simple check. If your monetary inflows and outflows are huge in comparison to your income, you should be audited.

A simple check. OK. Fine.
The IRS presently needs a warrant, and should continue to be required to obtain a warrant, for an individual's bank records, As is required per the 4th Amendment.

Just because you don't value your Constitutional rights doesn't mean that everyone else don't.

RedFishBlueFish · Oct 22, 2021

eohrnberger said:
Your statement is little more than reinforcing how little you care about principals involved, the Constitutional rights we all enjoy and benefit from, as well as the prudent limiting of Government's powers.

Why are you volunteering to live under a tyranny of unlimited government power?

I'm sorry, but in my view you are wrong.

A simple check. OK. Fine.
The IRS presently needs a warrant, and should continue to be required to obtain a warrant, for an individual's bank records, As is required per the 4th Amendment.

Just because you don't value your Constitutional rights doesn't mean that everyone else don't.

Yeah, yeah. You're hiding behind "Constitutional Principals for the Dumb" to protect tax cheats.

But, the American public (majority) want the rich to pay more taxes. And the American public (majority) says that it is unacceptable for people to cheat on their taxes. And Americans realize that most of the tax cheating goes on in the upper income brackets. So I think the American public generally rejects the Republican, and your, ideas designed to protect tax cheats.

j brown's body · Oct 22, 2021

eohrnberger said:
It's little more than spying on the electorate's finances for creating an IRS 'Hit List', for those 80K more IRS agents the admin wants to hire, and keep them busy.
When the process becomes the punishment.

Otherwise, they'll just keep busy with folks like you and me.

eohrnberger · Oct 22, 2021

RedFishBlueFish said:
Yeah, yeah. You're hiding behind "Constitutional Principals for the Dumb" to protect tax cheats.

What part of principals and Constitutional rights escapes you?
Must be the failed education system again. <* SMH *>

RedFishBlueFish said:
But, the American public (majority) want the rich to pay more taxes.

A good thing that the US is not a pure Democracy but a Republic. You should probably Google or consult WikiPedia on the difference.

RedFishBlueFish said:
And the American public (majority) says that it is unacceptable for people to cheat on their taxes.

And I would agree. But I'm not prepared to turn over my rights.
The IRS is just going to have to work within the government's limits of the Constitution.

I'm terribly sorry that such limits on government power frustrates you.

Perhaps you'd consider relocation to another country which doesn't value or respect the rights you have in the US government system? Might I suggest North Korea or Venezuela? I hear they are both simply wonderful this time of year.

RedFishBlueFish said:
And Americans realize that most of the tax cheating goes on in the upper income brackets. So I think the American public generally rejects the Republican, and your, ideas designed to protect tax cheats.

If you consult the recent polls, it is the progressive and leftist agendas that are being rejected by the electorate, along with the banner carrier of the same, Biden.

RedFishBlueFish · Oct 22, 2021

eohrnberger said:
What part of principals and Constitutional rights escapes you?
Must be the failed education system again. <* SMH *>

A good thing that the US is not a pure Democracy but a Republic. You should probably Google or consult WikiPedia on the difference.

And I would agree. But I'm not prepared to turn over my rights.
The IRS is just going to have to work within the government's limits of the Constitution.

I'm terribly sorry that such limits on government power frustrates you.

Perhaps you'd consider relocation to another country which doesn't value or respect the rights you have in the US government system? Might I suggest North Korea or Venezuela? I hear they are both simply wonderful this time of year.

If you consult the recent polls, it is the progressive and leftist agendas that are being rejected by the electorate, along with the banner carrier of the same, Biden.

OK echrnberer, I'm switching channels. Good debate. See ya.

Razoo · Oct 22, 2021

ALEC Right Wing Nut party = loads of high crimes and tax evasion

gdgyva · Oct 22, 2021

this again is NOT about the high earners....this is about catching the people not reporting income in the shadow economy

i dont have a major issue with that aspect, but other people with also get caught up in this and i do care about those people

People who cant afford the attorneys they will need to help them fight the IRS who think they are cheating on their taxes

and i just dont like the way the whole thing is done......

RedFishBlueFish · Oct 23, 2021

gdgyva said:
this again is NOT about the high earners....this is about catching the people not reporting income in the shadow economy

i dont have a major issue with that aspect, but other people with also get caught up in this and i do care about those people

People who cant afford the attorneys they will need to help them fight the IRS who think they are cheating on their taxes

and i just dont like the way the whole thing is done......

This is an exaggeration. Sure, some innocent tax filers get caught up in undeserved IRS audits. But the number is likely very low. By and large audits work the way they should. And in regards to small businesses and low-to-middle income people having to hire lawyers, that too is exaggeration. Most of those disputes can be handled without lawyers, by simply providing the proper documentation.

Republicans are arguing against this because they cheat on their taxes or support tax cheats - and they like it that way.

jotathought · Oct 23, 2021

Is Al Sharpton a Republican?

ttwtt78640 · Oct 23, 2021

RedFishBlueFish said:
Once upon a time, Republicans portrayed themselves as the party of small government and family values. Recently, though, GOP leaders have been cobbling together a new coalition, welcoming insurrectionists, white-nationalist tiki-torchers and people who think Bill Gates is trying to microchip them. - The latest recruit to the Big Tent? Tax cheats.

(1) Each year, about $600 billion in taxes legally owed are not paid. For scale, that’s roughly equal to all federal income taxes paid by the lowest-earning 90 percent of taxpayers, according to Treasury Department data.

(2) There are some types of income for which little or no third-party reporting exists. These income categories — including partnership, proprietorship and rental income — accrue disproportionately to high earners. The government has much less ability to tell when these filers are misreporting; as a result, they can more easily get away with cheating.

(3) When it comes to ordinary wage and salary income, taxpayers are remarkably forthcoming, with noncompliance averaging only 1 percent; for those more “opaque” income sources, noncompliance is an estimated 55 percent.

(4) An effective response would involve more third-party reporting so the IRS has greater visibility into who’s likely fudging their numbers. Then the agency could better target its audit decisions.

(5) Only accounts with flows of more than $10,000 not tied to wage income or exempted benefits would be affected — the idea being that the IRS already knows about the wage income anyway. The reporting proposal is estimated to bring in $200 billion to $250 billion in revenue over the next decade, according to Treasury.

(6) This is revenue that would be collected without having to raise a single tax rate, which you’d think Republicans would applaud. Instead, the GOP, backed by the bank lobby, has fought every version of the reporting policy tooth and nail.

(7) The GOP seeks to exploit the confusion of honest, rank-and-file taxpayers. Their income is already quite well reported to the IRS and Americans haven’t considered this a “dragnet” or “infringement on personal privacy.” But suddenly it is — when similar reporting is proposed to ensure high-income people’s tax compliance, too.

(8) Republicans also presumably have another shameful aim: communicating to tax cheats that, now and in the future, the GOP has their backs.

The above from a WAPO opinion piece. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/10/21/gop-rebrands-itself-party-tax-cheats/

Hmm… using your supplied data, this proposed unfunded reporting mandate on banks (the unstated compliance costs of which are likely to be passed on to all of their customers) coupled with (an unstated annual amount of) increased IRS auditing funding would likely yield $20B to $25B of additional annual FIT revenue.

While getting those (estimated) billions of increased revenue may seem impressive, they may reduce the (now) typical annual federal “budget” deficit of $1T+ by (at most) 2% to 2.5%, yet $575B to $580B of annual tax cheating would still remain.

There also seems to be built in potential for continued tax cheating - simply place the unreported income funds into an account which also has a (qualified) direct deposit (making that account exempt from the new IRS reporting requirement).

The GOP Rebrands Itself as the Party of Tax Cheats

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