The Extreme Ambitions of West Bank Settlers

The Extreme Ambitions of West Bank Settlers​

For decades, Daniella Weiss has been one of the leaders of Israel’s settlement movement. Weiss became involved in settlement politics in the wake of the 1967 war. In the early seventies, her family moved to the settlements in the West Bank and she later served for a decade as mayor of Kedumim, a community in the north. She has also been arrested numerous times, including for assaulting a police officer and interfering with an investigation into the destruction of Palestinian property. More recently, she has been affiliated with the Nachala settlement organization, which helps younger settlers establish illegal outposts in the West Bank, an initiative that’s controversial even among the settler community. (Weiss is a neighbor and an ally of Bezalel Smotrich, the extremist minister of finance, who has said that the Palestinian people do not exist and that Palestinian communities need to be erased; he also lives in Kedumim.)

Weiss and I recently spoke by phone. Since the Hamas massacre of October 7th, Benjamin Netanyahu’s government—in addition to invading Gaza—has, with its allies in the settler movement, become increasingly aggressive in the West Bank. Sixteen Palestinian communities have been removed from their land, and a hundred and seventy-five Palestinians have been killed. I wanted to talk to Weiss to understand the extremism of the settler movement, and her ultimate intentions for the West Bank. During our conversation, edited for length and clarity, we also discussed how her religious attitudes shape her view of the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, why human rights should not be considered universal, and why she should not be expected to mourn for dead Palestinian children.

The Link

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But whatever you do, don’t call it Apartheid.

This has been what the UN has been talking about. For once it would be good to tell Bibi to go ******* himself.

Israel needs to clamp down massively on the settlers. Surely, bibi's government has to realize that they sap support for Israel when it does things it's legitimately entitled to do, like using deadly force in a defensive war against Hamas (no that doesn't mean everything is auto-acceptable).

And then there's the basic immorality of it. I want to import a comment from Felis Leo in another thread in which "But whatever you do, don’t call it Apartheid" was uttered.

Felis Leo said:

It is not Apartheid. Apartheid is segregating citizens of one country and disadvantaging one group of citizens under the color of law on the basis of race, ethnicity or religion. But a country under apartheid is still functional, such as the Southern States during Jim Crow Segregation, or Apartheid South Africa. The second-class citizens have a bare modicum of rights by virtue of still being citizens, such as recognized property rights. This is not Apartheid. It is disgraceful conquest of disputed territory by annexation and making life unlivable for the non-citizens.

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And in any event, as people like to say Palestinians ≠ Hamas, Settlers ≠ Israelis ≠ Jews.

Moreover, the differences between Palestinian and Israeli standing are not because Jews hate arabs, or hate Palestinians specifically. It's because Hamas and its predecessors have always been dedicated to the extermination of the Jews and the non-existence of a Jewish state. There would be peace if a two-state solution was not rejected in 1947. There would be peace if so many things did not happen. The conditions for peace are the removal of Hamas, whose mission has jack shit to do with anything happen to Palestinians writ large.


So yeah, stop the settlers. But let's not be under any illusions. Israel is going to continue it's anti-Hamas measures as long as they're under threat of extermination.

Mr Person said:

Israel needs to clamp down massively on the settlers.

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No, it needs to remove them from the territory they are residing in illegally and making the lives of the real residents a living hell.

They are Israelis and thus belong in Israel. And preempting the " Israeli citizens of Palestine should do likewise then" recall the laws about recognized national territory in this dispute were not written prior to 1948 BUT they were written into law prior to 1967 and thus it is a different status they are living there under.

Mr Person said:

And then there's the basic immorality of it. I want to import a comment from Felis Leo in another thread in which "But whatever you do, don’t call it Apartheid" was uttered.

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People are calling apartheid because it completely ticks the boxes in the UN Apartheid conventionhttps://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes

/Doc.10_International%20Convention%20on%20the%20Suppression%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Apartheid.pdf

This is not up for dispute imo and that's why the international HRs groups and Israeli ones are making the claim

Mr Person said:

And in any event, as people like to say Palestinians ≠ Hamas, Settlers ≠ Israelis ≠ Jews.

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If they do it's because they are ignorant

Mr Person said:

Moreover, the differences between Palestinian and Israeli standing are not because Jews hate arabs, or hate Palestinians specifically.

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They think they are above them and hence they have the right to be the lords of the land. Every action and Zionism itself is based on this.

It is also noteworthy to say that Palestinians don't hate Jews because they are Jews, they hate them for the treatment meted out to them by Jews

Just as it would be foolish to conclude that First Nation Americans hated the European colonists because they were white or Christian, it's much simpler than that, people hate those that massacre and ethnically cleanse them to steal the land for themselves,

Mr Person said:

It's because Hamas and its predecessors have always been dedicated to the extermination of the Jews and the non-existence of a Jewish state.

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The PLO downed their arms and accepted the reality of the Israeli state, what did they get in return?

500,000 more illegal settlers and an apartheid system that has cemented in the worst elements of the military occupation .

Additionally, there are plenty on the Israeli side who wish the exact same as Hamas be done to the Palestinians. They are the current Israeli leadership made up of right wing thugs and their fanatical followers

Mr Person said:

There would be peace if a two-state solution was not rejected in 1947. There would be peace if so many things did not happen. The conditions for peace are the removal of Hamas, whose mission has jack shit to do with anything happen to Palestinians writ large.

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You don't know that because you don't know what might have happened with a whole different set of circumstances, nobody knows, it's not possible to know. This should be really obvious

If you were an Palestinian in 1947, would you have accepted 55% of your country being handed over to recent arrivals from a different continent that made up 33% of the population?

When that partition was voted in, Arabs owned 90% of all privately owned land.

Turkeys don't vote for Christmas

The conditions for peace ,regardless of Hamas, are for the occupation/apartheid to end , all the illegal settlers to be returned to their own territory and a viable Palestinian state to be created/recognized on the 67 borders in step with international law

Mr Person said:

So yeah, stop the settlers. But let's not be under any illusions. Israel is going to continue it's anti-Hamas measures as long as they're under threat of extermination.

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No, get shut of the settlers, they are illegals that are violating the locals en masse under the protection and with the assistance of the occupying army.

Should the Palestinians still have the right to armed struggle to self determination against those who hold the same views on the Israeli side?

Eliminate Hamas, Hezbullah and the West Bank settlers. Eliminate all religious fanatics. Everyday Jews and Palestinians could live in peace with each other if these radical groups no longer existed. Unfortunately, this region is based on religion.

I put the odds of peace at maybe 2%. Even then there would still be plenty of attacks from fringe groups. Neither side trusts each other.

Imagine if the right wingers in Israel get their way and tear down the Temple Mount to rebuild the synagogue. That could spark world war three. It makes historical sense why they would want to do it but it would be real bad.

TEL AVIV — The first clues came from the bodies of slain terrorists: maps, drawings, notes and the weapons and gear they carried. In Beeri, a kibbutz town overrun by Hamas on Oct. 7, one dead fighter had a notebook with hand-scrawled Quranic verses and orders that read, simply, “Kill as many people and take as many hostages as possible.” Others were equipped with gas canisters, handcuffs and thermobaric grenades designed to instantly turn houses into infernos. Each was like a piece from a grisly puzzle, a snippet of fine detail from a terrorist operation that called for hundreds of discrete crimes in specific locations. Four weeks later, the reassembled fragments are beginning to reveal the contours of Hamas’s broader plan, one that analysts say was intended not to just kill and capture Israelis, but to spark a conflagration that would sweep the region and lead to a wider conflict.

The evidence, described by more than a dozen current and former intelligence and security officials from four Western and Middle Eastern countries, reveals an intention by Hamas planners to strike a blow of historic proportions, in the expectation that their actions would compel an overwhelming Israeli response. Several officials who had not previously spoken about the matter said the intelligence about Hamas’s motivations has become stronger in recent days. . . . The assault teams managed to penetrate as far as Ofakim, an Israeli town about 15 miles from the Gaza Strip and about half the distance between the enclave and the West Bank. One unit carried reconnaissance information and maps suggesting an intention to continue the assault up to the border of the West Bank, according to two senior Middle East intelligence officials and one former U.S. official with detailed knowledge of the evidence. Hamas had been increasing its outreach to West Bank militants in recent months, although the group says it did not notify its West Bank allies of its Oct. 7 plans in advance. . . .

A Hamas official, Basem Naim, asserted in an interview Friday that the group planned in advance for a severe Israeli retaliation.

[Continues]



So to repeat: the settlers are dead wrong and Israel needs to deal with them, but they have **** all to do with Hamas attempting to kill all the Jews.

Mr Person said:

TEL AVIV — The first clues came from the bodies of slain terrorists: maps, drawings, notes and the weapons and gear they carried. In Beeri, a kibbutz town overrun by Hamas on Oct. 7, one dead fighter had a notebook with hand-scrawled Quranic verses and orders that read, simply, “Kill as many people and take as many hostages as possible.” Others were equipped with gas canisters, handcuffs and thermobaric grenades designed to instantly turn houses into infernos. Each was like a piece from a grisly puzzle, a snippet of fine detail from a terrorist operation that called for hundreds of discrete crimes in specific locations. Four weeks later, the reassembled fragments are beginning to reveal the contours of Hamas’s broader plan, one that analysts say was intended not to just kill and capture Israelis, but to spark a conflagration that would sweep the region and lead to a wider conflict.

The evidence, described by more than a dozen current and former intelligence and security officials from four Western and Middle Eastern countries, reveals an intention by Hamas planners to strike a blow of historic proportions, in the expectation that their actions would compel an overwhelming Israeli response. Several officials who had not previously spoken about the matter said the intelligence about Hamas’s motivations has become stronger in recent days. . . . The assault teams managed to penetrate as far as Ofakim, an Israeli town about 15 miles from the Gaza Strip and about half the distance between the enclave and the West Bank. One unit carried reconnaissance information and maps suggesting an intention to continue the assault up to the border of the West Bank, according to two senior Middle East intelligence officials and one former U.S. official with detailed knowledge of the evidence. Hamas had been increasing its outreach to West Bank militants in recent months, although the group says it did not notify its West Bank allies of its Oct. 7 plans in advance. . . .

A Hamas official, Basem Naim, asserted in an interview Friday that the group planned in advance for a severe Israeli retaliation.

[Continues]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/11/12/hamas-planning-terror-gaza-israel/

So to repeat: the settlers are dead wrong and Israel needs to deal with them, but they have **** all to do with Hamas attempting to kill all the Jews.

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The settlements are a major part of what motivates people to support extremist groups like Hamas in the first place, so attempting to deny their relevance is foolish.

Mr Person said:

Israel needs to clamp down massively on the settlers. Surely, bibi's government has to realize that they sap support for Israel when it does things it's legitimately entitled to do,

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Netanyahu has opposed a 2 state solution all his life and he depends on extremist settlers in the West bank for his political position.

They are intertwined and until the US stops giving blanket support to Netanyahu's government, things won't change.

"Not only is Mr Netanyahu against independence for the Palestinians. His survival as prime minister depends on support from Jewish extremists who believe the entire territory between the river Jordan and the Mediterranean was given to the Jewish people by God and should all be inside Israel's borders."