Why don't you read the material in the link, which answers your criticisms and gives truly remarkable prophecies that have been fulfilled of Joseph Smith, whether you can admit it or not. Name prophecies anywhere, that can be verified, that are more impressive than the civil War prophecy and the Stephen A. Douglas prophecy.
LDS FAQ: Fulfilled Prophecies of Joseph Smith, the Mormon Prophet
There is no comparison between Joseph Smith and Jesus Christ.
For one thing THE PROPHECIES OF JESUS CAME TRUE. He warned us about the persecution Christians will face, and that's still very true to this day!
On the other hand, Joseph Smith made several clear Missouri prophecies, but not only did they not come true, but they afflicted his followers instead!
Let me try illustrate again the point I'm trying to make:
Jeremiah 14
14 And the Lord said to me: “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds.
15 Therefore thus says the Lord concerning the prophets who prophesy in my name although I did not send them, and who say, ‘Sword and famine shall not come upon this land’: By sword and famine those prophets shall be consumed.
16 And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem, victims of famine and sword, with none to bury them—them, their wives, their sons, and their daughters. For I will pour out their evil upon them.
And here are the fulfillments of Smith's prophecies:
FULFILLMENT: Mormons were driven out of Independence and from all of their settlements in Missouri in 1839. The temple lot is not owned by the Mormon church. No one living in the generation when the prophecy was made is still alive.
FULFILLMENT: The Mormons lost all their lands in Missouri; they did seek legal redress but were unsuccessful; their enemies were not destroyed; their wrongs were not avenged; the Mormons were driven out of Missouri.
FULFILLMENT: Zion's Camp was organized but utterly failed and it disbanded in July. Cholera decimated them and the campaign did not restore the saints to their homes.
I can't help but compare the results of the Missouri Prophesies with the warnings from Jeremiah 14.
The results were stark contrasts from what he prophesied.
The way I interpret what happened to the followers of Smith was that.....God was showing them in unmistakeable and very serious ways that the prophecies did not come from Him.
I went to that link....I still have to sift through it.
Why don't you cut-and-paste some of those prophecies? If they're supposed to prove me wrong, surely you'd want to bring them out, wouldn't you?
If Joseph Smith is a false prophet because he used the word generation in the Missouri prophecy, is Jesus a false prophet for giving this prophecy relating to the Second Coming:
Jesus' prophecies came true. Are still coming true.
Therefore, why should He be a false prophet with His track record?
Re-read what I wrote and try and get the point. Both stated "this generation", you condemn Joseph for this but not Christ. That fact is in prophecy we do not know what length of time that refers to. The LDS believe both prophecies are still in the future to be fulfilled.
Edit, they are too long. Just read them in the link. I started a thread not too long ago where I pasted the Civil War prophecy.
Jesus' prophecies came true. Are still coming true.
THEY CAME TRUE TO THE LETTER!
Therefore, why should He be a false prophet with His track record? Furthermore, why shouldn't He be who He said He is, especially when His words are backed by His Father?
Most importantly....think about this:
If we go by Joseph Smith's claim about himself -
- that would make Jesus and The Father both liars, wouldn't it?
I'm not interested about the Civil War. We're talking about the Missouri Prophecies.
A test of a true prophet of God is that all his prophecies must come true.
Also, you forgot to answer this:
Where in the Bible is it specified that false prophets/religious leaders will not want you to pray?
tosca1
If we go by Joseph Smith's claim about himself -
- that would make Jesus and The Father both liars, wouldn't it?
What are you talking about? All Joseph ever claimed was that he was a prophet of God. He in no way thought he was greater than Jesus. He was sent to testify of Jesus like all the prophets. As Joseph stated here:
“The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it. But in connection with these, we believe in the gift of the Holy Ghost, the power of faith, the enjoyment of the spiritual gifts according to the will of God, the restoration of the house of Israel, and the final triumph of truth.”
The point is: GOD told the people HIS EXACT MESSAGE - through Jonah.
Being an All-Knowing God, of course He already knew it would turn out just the way it did like He already knew
even then everything that will happen to the Messiah, everything that will happen after the Messiah, everything that's happening now, and in the future, etc..,
He already knew how Jonah will react to it - when He didn't destroy Nineveh after all. For all we know, the whole lesson was probably actually meant for Jonah!
As we learn from the OLD TESTAMENT, punishment were meted for disobedience.
Why was Moses denied entry to the Promised Land? Because he deviated from the instructions of God - he struck the rock twice instead of speaking to the rock as God had told him to.
Typical of hate groups, they take 1 instance, repeat it hundreds of times, then say it happened hundreds of times.....and an anti mormon site is NOT a hate group?First you said it didn't happen...you were wrong.
Then you said it came from a biased source.....you were wrong again.
Now you're saying it was only one person......would you like to bet on it this time?
If we can judge that Joseph Smith wasn't a racist by 1880 standards, then why can't we judge that Brigham Young was?
Typical of hate groups, they take 1 instance, repeat it hundreds of times, then say it happened hundreds of times.....and an anti mormon site is NOT a hate group?
I used to attend protestant churches in east Texas, they are great at claiming persecution, while being very guilty of it themselves. The KKK is full of people who claim to be christians.
Did you even google search the pic?
That is a good point. Yes, I agree, we should be able to judge Young as a rascist- even by standards of 1880.
At the same time, a statement that Young was rascist should be balanced with an aknowledgement that racism (both codifed and un condified) was common at that time amongst a variety of cultures.
It is the same with the American confederates as slave owners. Yes, many did own slaves and were to varying degrees, rascists. This also needs to be acknowleged.
At the same time, slavery in the US south did not occur in a historical vacuam and various forms of slavery were common in 1860 amongst a variety of peoples.
Very interesting....but none of that qualifies Brigham Young to be a bridge from bondage to God.
I would agree. I am also surprised that Mormons would assign Brigham Young that title. In traditional Christianity, titles such as that are reserved only for Christ.
Not sure, but I don't think Laska is LDS. I doubt a real Mormon would've tried to pretend that Brigham Young was "a bridge from bondage" knowing that it could bring unwanted attention to their church history.
I dont know....
I have seen transcripts of speeches by senior Mormons - granted, they were made generations ago, that used very messianic imagery (of the sort reserved only for Christ in traditional christianity) in reference to Jospeph Smith.
In addition, only Mormons tend to use flattering religous titles for Jospeh Smith and Brigham Young. My guess is that Laska is Mormon. I saw a 60 minutes interview with one of the past Mormon presidents (Bishop Osborne?). In the interviews, he humanized Smith and Younga nd acknowledged their potential for human error. Laska could well be a Mormon who has not gotten the new message.
None of this gets around a simple fact. Jonah delivered a message, on behalf of God, that, as he delivered it, turned out to be false. He told the people of Nineveh that God was going to destroy them, and God did not destroy them.
Was Jonah a prophet of God, or was he a false prophet?
:lol:
There must be something in the water of the anti-Mormon population.
In spite of all their warts, Mormon's have a very rich and interesting history and one of the reasons I enjoy living in Utah.
10. Mormons believe that when Jesus died, the people fell away and the priesthood left the earth. The priesthood didn't return until it was given to Joseph Smith.
Not exactly but close. The New Testament apostles still had real authority while they were alive. After they are killed the authority was gone. Which means the Catholic church and all the Protestant churches that have come from it, their leaders have had no real authority to act in God's name.
Peter, Lames, and John, the first presidency of the NT church, who last held the keys to the Melchizadech priesthood, restored them to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the restoration of the same church set up in the New Testament.
Restoration of the Melchizedek Priesthood[edit]
Joseph Smith, Jr. and Oliver Cowdery said they were visited by John the Baptist, who laid his hands on their head and gave them the Aaronic priesthood; Smith described the event in detail and gave an exact date when it happened. In contrast, he never gave a description of any vision in which he saw an angel separately confer the Melchizedek priesthood. However, by the turn of the 20th century, Latter Day Saint theologians believed that such a separate ordination by angels had occurred prior to the organization of the Church of Christ on April 6, 1830.[7]
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