Batista was a very corrupt dictator, with US support; the mob had a large presence in the country. The people were greatly dissatisfied with the government, and supported its overthrow.
Castro led a remarkable revolution, that overthrew the government. Reportedly, he had approached the US, then with Nixon handling Cuban issues after Eisenhower's stroke, wanting to have a good relationship as a socialist country, and Nixon refused, leading Castro to ally with the USSR as a communist.
economic boycott in place to this day.
Yet JFK did not plan a long boycott; he was interested in ending the conflict, either by the overthrow of Castro, or by negotiating an agreement with him. His private representative was secretly meeting with Castro to begin negotiations to end the conflict.
Back to the evil of Cuba. The US does not want to copy the system of Cuba. It's poorer, and heavily state controlled, owning most industry and employing most Cubans. That doesn't mean the US shouldn't and doesn't want to have some more government-run systems; we already have such things as public water systems, public libraries, public education, public power in some areas such as the TVA, and many more.
Popular areas for expansion include things like ending the very poor privatized prison industry, avoiding privately owned highways, not going too far in private education (there has been a high rate of problems with for-profit 'colleges'), and Medicare for All. Back to Cuba, Wikipedia:
"The government of Cuba owns and operates most industries and most of the labor force is employed by the state. Following the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991, the ruling Communist Party of Cuba encouraged the formation of worker co-operatives and self-employment. However, greater private property and free market rights were granted by the 2019 Cuba Constitution. It has also been acknowledged that foreign market investment in various Cuban economic sectors increased before 2019 as well.
As of 2000, public-sector employment was 76% and private-sector employment (mainly composed of self-employment) was 23% - compared to the 1981 ratio of 91% to 8%. Investment is restricted and requires approval by the government. The government sets most prices and rations goods to citizens. In 2016 Cuba ranked 68th out of 182 countries, with a Human Development Index of 0.775, much higher than its GDP per capita rank (95th). As of 2012, the country's public debt comprised 35.3% of GDP, inflation (CDP) was 5.5%, and GDP growth was 3%.
Housing and transportation costs are low. Cubans receive government-subsidized education, healthcare and food subsidies."
About that 'Human Development Index'. It ranks Cuba 30th of 176 nations in life expectancy; second in literacy with 99.8%; sixth in primary school enrollment; 17th of 135 in the 'human poverty index' (lower is better).
Cuba has essentially no homelessness; reportedly, homelessness is illegal; if a person is homeless, the government provides them housing (the US has an estimated 500,000 homeless).
1/2
It's rather pathetic, when you think about it, how we still base our relations with Cuba on, 'but what about what Castro did in 1961'. Imagine US negotiators going to discuss relations with a country, and being told, 'sorry, we just can't make a deal with you, because we disapprove of the 1954 Guatemalan coup and Reagan's actions in the Iran-Contra crimes'.
I bet nearly 100% of Americans know the name "Fidel Castro" with Cuba; how many know the current leader? 1%? For that matter, can you name the current leader of Mexico? And you have strong opinions on why it's a good idea to be at economic war with Cuba? That's rational?
It's rather pathetic, when you think about it, how we still base our relations with Cuba on, 'but what about what Castro did in 1961'. Imagine US negotiators going to discuss relations with a country, and being told, 'sorry, we just can't make a deal with you, because we disapprove of the 1954 Guatemalan coup and Reagan's actions in the Iran-Contra crimes'.
I bet nearly 100% of Americans know the name "Fidel Castro" with Cuba; how many know the current leader? 1%? For that matter, can you name the current leader of Mexico? And you have strong opinions on why it's a good idea to be at economic war with Cuba? That's rational?
It’s pretty pathetic how those on the left will go to any extent to defend a brutal dictator for the sole reason of them being left leaning.
Do you condemn those on the right who are defending the brutal dictator of Russia? Trading with the Chicoms?
Yep, on numerous occasions. Just because Trump is an idiot doesn’t make romanticizing Cuba a good thing...especially since they are helping prop up Nicholas Maduro, who is starving the people of Venezuela into submission.
Who's romanticizing Cuba? The logic of trading with the ChiComs and the Soviets was to change them toward democracy through trade. It has partially worked. So what is the reasoning not to do it with Cuba, a tiny nation of 11.5M? About the population of Ohio and only slightly more than the population of NYC?
Russia is a violent kleptocracy run by a KGB agent which is actively seeking to undermine the West at every turn. China is literally trying to culturally exterminate its muslim populace in Xinjiang and carves up dissidents for organs. If that’s “working” I’d hate to see wha you consider a failure.
As for who is romanticizing it....all you’d have to do is look at the OP.
Yet every President since Nixon and to Trump has sought to establish relations with them. Again, why is Cuba special?
Cuba is a brutal dictatorship which has committed horrific human rights abuses against its own people on numerous occasions. They have been involved in multiple wars of aggression propping up other brutal regimes in Africa, most notably in Angola. JFK’s mistake vis a vis the Bay of Pigs was agreeing to it and not having the nerve to see it through; if he was going to allow the operation to go forwards at all he should have been willing to allow it to go all the way, instead of allowing the Cuban exiles to be slaughtered while he waffled.
A big part of why the Soviets agreed to pull nukes out of Cuba was that they thought Castro was nuts and would press to use them.
If we are going to take moral stands, might as well start with baby steps.
If we are going to take moral stands, might as well start with baby steps.
That's idiotic. It's justifying irrational, hypocritical, immoral, counter-productive, selective policy.
Nixon went to China, that was almost 50 years ago. Time to take adult steps.
But the literacy rates, Tigerace117!
It’s pretty pathetic how those on the left will go to any extent to defend a brutal dictator for the sole reason of them being left leaning.
There is nothing irrational, immoral or counterproductive about it.
The United States should not treat with murderous tyrannical regimes.
It always ends up poisoning us in the end, because the murderous tyrannical regimes seek to perpetuate themselves in any manner that they can.
Trading with Saudi Arabia fueled the growth of Wahhabism and Sunni revanchist terrorism. Trading with China helped spur their rapid growth combined with imperialistic appetites in Asia and the Pacific.
Yes, there is.
Yet you support trump letting Saudi Arabia murder a US resident with impunity, lying for him, because as trump admits, he wants the arms deals.
Unless trump does it. And no, Cuba and many other countries we have attacked have not been the problem 'perpetuating themselves in any manner they can.' In fact, that sounds a lot more like us.
You have no idea about the real option, tradeoffs, corruption, it seems, but just a determination to insist on low-information ideological nonsense. Who is the leader of Cuba you say we should be at economic war with?
That's you dishonestly misrepresenting the meaning of the literacy rates, creating a straw man that Cuba is being praised overall for providing an accurate picture. Who said "Cuba is great at everything, because of a high literacy rate?" No one, but that's your straw man. No, it's your implied argument - Cuba is completely evil about everything - that's false.
Batista was a very corrupt dictator, with US support; the mob had a large presence in the country. The people were greatly dissatisfied with the government, and supported its overthrow.
Castro led a remarkable revolution, that overthrew the government. Reportedly, he had approached the US, then with Nixon handling Cuban issues after Eisenhower's stroke, wanting to have a good relationship as a socialist country, and Nixon refused, leading Castro to ally with the USSR as a communist.
Castro created a strong authoritarian government and communist system. It failed pretty badly, with things like low crop yields, dependent on Soviet subsidies. GDP per capita plummeted. He also did some good things - greatly increasing literacy and training doctors. As Wikipedia notes:
"Before 1959 the literacy rate for Cuba was approximately 77%, as noted by UNESCO. This was the 4th highest rate in Latin America. The Cuban government of Fidel Castro at Che Guevara’s behest dubbed 1961 the "year of education" and sent "literacy brigades" out into the countryside to construct schools, train new educators, and teach the predominantly illiterate guajiros (peasants) to read and write. The campaign was "a remarkable success” although some participants recalled it as an indoctrination program to support the party. By its completion, 707,212 adults were taught to read and write, raising the national literacy rate to 96%."
US politics at the time were the height of the cold war. Gallup polls showed the American people said Cuba was the #1 threat in the world. Politics demanded the government oppose Castro. Nixon tried and failed to launch a US invasion under cover of Cuban exiles before the 1960 election, and failed; JFK inherited plan expanded by the CIA that had been overthrowing so many government, which misled him into supporting it, despite his prohibition on US military involvement, and it became the disastrous Bay of Pigs, which led to end of Allen Dulles' career leading the CIA's plots, for what RFK called 'virtually treason' against JFK in the operation. JFK instead initiated a complete economic boycott in place to this day.
Yet JFK did not plan a long boycott; he was interested in ending the conflict, either by the overthrow of Castro, or by negotiating an agreement with him. His private representative was secretly meeting with Castro to begin negotiations to end the conflict.
Back to the evil of Cuba. The US does not want to copy the system of Cuba. It's poorer, and heavily state controlled, owning most industry and employing most Cubans. That doesn't mean the US shouldn't and doesn't want to have some more government-run systems; we already have such things as public water systems, public libraries, public education, public power in some areas such as the TVA, and many more.
Popular areas for expansion include things like ending the very poor privatized prison industry, avoiding privately owned highways, not going too far in private education (there has been a high rate of problems with for-profit 'colleges'), and Medicare for All. Back to Cuba, Wikipedia:
"The government of Cuba owns and operates most industries and most of the labor force is employed by the state. Following the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991, the ruling Communist Party of Cuba encouraged the formation of worker co-operatives and self-employment. However, greater private property and free market rights were granted by the 2019 Cuba Constitution. It has also been acknowledged that foreign market investment in various Cuban economic sectors increased before 2019 as well.
As of 2000, public-sector employment was 76% and private-sector employment (mainly composed of self-employment) was 23% - compared to the 1981 ratio of 91% to 8%. Investment is restricted and requires approval by the government. The government sets most prices and rations goods to citizens. In 2016 Cuba ranked 68th out of 182 countries, with a Human Development Index of 0.775, much higher than its GDP per capita rank (95th). As of 2012, the country's public debt comprised 35.3% of GDP, inflation (CDP) was 5.5%, and GDP growth was 3%.
Housing and transportation costs are low. Cubans receive government-subsidized education, healthcare and food subsidies."
About that 'Human Development Index'. It ranks Cuba 30th of 176 nations in life expectancy; second in literacy with 99.8%; sixth in primary school enrollment; 17th of 135 in the 'human poverty index' (lower is better).
Cuba has essentially no homelessness; reportedly, homelessness is illegal; if a person is homeless, the government provides them housing (the US has an estimated 500,000 homeless).
1/2
I was parodying Bernie Sanders' oft-repeated talking point. You can blame it on Sanders for being a perennial lickspittle apologist for the Castros.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?