On you?
what is crazy is the fact we got here and both sides are guilty!Unfortunately for America (and the rest of the world), there are far too many ignorant Americans that believe that issue of raising the debt ceiling is a leverage point in controlling spending. As you well pointed out, this is about paying for the bills we have already incurred, it has nothing to do with spending. Yet, this garbage sells in the fact-free right wing media, so the wack-a-doo, make a show, right wing nuts that now control the Republican party think this plays well to the their voters. The Republican caucus, right now, is controlled by wing-nuts (crazy people). You don't want crazy people making decisions... but that is what is in front of us.
What is scary is they have no idea of the dire consequences of defaulting on our debt. They think they will control spending, but if they screw with this, they will get the opposite result .... at least a much greater expenditure on interest and may a ton of expenditure of stimulus to right the wrong of the recession/depression they create.
I pray these people don't go full stupid.
I have been hearing of this pain since ReaganWell, it’s going to happen eventually anyway. The debt is a runaway train. America can either take the lumps it has coming so far or add to its pain in the future.
The debt has been a "runaway train" since after WWII. We never paid the WWII debt down either. You are being a chicken little.Well, it’s going to happen eventually anyway. The debt is a runaway train. America can either take the lumps it has coming so far or add to its pain in the future.
The debt has been a "runaway train" since after WWII.
We never paid the WWII debt down either. You are being a chicken little.
What I said is that we never paid the debt from WWII. Dropping the % of GDP of the debt by increasing GDP is not paying it off. The last time we actually paid off the national debt was in 1835.Actually, the debt was around 100% or more of the GDP in 1946, but then it came down during the economic expansion of the late 1940s and into the 1950s.
But we did pay it down, too. We paid it down until the 1980s when Reagan and Congressional Democrats ignored the debt for a while, but then Clinton paid it down again.
Here's why the debt is out of control in 2023 (as I think the chart makes perfectly clear):
https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/us-debt-held-by-public-1790-2021-labels.jpg
- We had two wars that lasted the better part of 10-20 years.
- We not only had tax cuts during the Bush years but even tax rebates
- We had the worst economic crisis in 80 years beginning in the final year of Bush's term
- We spent vast sums of money to get out of the crisis but we didn't raise enough taxes to cover the spending
- Trump and the GOP gave the rich a tax break with no substantive decrease in spending
- COVID relief in the trillions but with no tax increases
I was wrong when I posted we hadn't had tax increases since the 1990s - Obama got one passed at the end of his first term, I believe. But we've had two waves of massive emergency spending in the last 15 years and they were both woefully underfunded. I was also incorrect when I suggested that Democrats could have somehow used their majority to rescind the debt limit, as it's not a rule but the result of several acts. The difference now, and the reason there's a potential crisis, is that previous congressional majorities and minorities understood it's not a good idea to weaponize the US' full faith and credit.
Democrats are not blameless, and I agree that some hard and unpopular spending cuts will probably have to be made, but it's just richly ironic to see Republicans talking about their debt fears. Republicans object to taxes not spending, and that is the single biggest reason we're here.
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That is correct. But, fixing the problem has to be done further up stream. Simply not paying the bills for the debts incurred is suicide.what is crazy is the fact we got here and both sides are guilty!
We wouldn't have this problem if democrats knew how to plan a budget and executer it. Instead we haven't had a balanced budget in decades because the democrats don't want it and they also don't want to handle the budget by voting on the 12 major appropriations bills one at a time. Instead we keep getting massive omnibus bills requiring more spending and lots of pork.With the House in a mess there's been lots of talk about what will happen when it comes time to raise the debt ceiling. I'm sure everyone on this forum knows exactly what the debt ceiling is and how it works. But for my own edification I've found some facts on it.
What Is the U.S. Debt Ceiling? - dummies
The debt ceiling, legally known as the debt limit, is the total amount of money that the U.S. government is authorized to borrow to pay existing obligations, suwww.dummies.com
The debt ceiling, legally known as the debt limit, is the total amount of money that the U.S. government is authorized to borrow to pay existing obligations, such as Social Security and Medicare benefits, military salaries, interest on the national debt, tax refunds, and disbursements for other programs.
The debt limit applies to federal debt held by the public, namely, securities held by investors outside the federal government, and to federal debt held by the government’s own accounts. The debt limit does not create new spending commitments but allows the government to finance existing obligations already established by Congress.
U.S. Debt Ceiling: Definition, History, Pros, Cons, and Clashes
The debt ceiling is a limit that Congress imposes on the amount that the federal government can owe. Discover the current debt ceiling and its economic impact.www.investopedia.com
the debt ceiling explained for dummies - Yahoo Video Search Results
The search engine that helps you find exactly what you're looking for. Find the most relevant information, video, images, and answers from all across the Web.video.search.yahoo.com
Only D’s don’t plan budgets.We wouldn't have this problem if democrats knew how to plan a budget and executer it. Instead we haven't had a balanced budget in decades because the democrats don't want it and they also don't want to handle the budget by voting on the 12 major appropriations bills one at a time. Instead we keep getting massive omnibus bills requiring more spending and lots of pork.
Plan a budget and that's all you get for the year.
The problem isn't taxing it's spending. The Congress keeps telling us that increases in the economy, the GDP will result in more income to the government in tax revenue, fees licenses issued. That doesn't happen because we don't have a budget that we stick too. We need to start with better management of the money instead of just spending.What makes you think republicans spend less than democrats?
Familiarize yourself with entrenchment and you will see how silly you sound…The problem isn't taxing it's spending. The Congress keeps telling us that increases in the economy, the GDP will result in more income to the government in tax revenue, fees licenses issued. That doesn't happen because we don't have a budget that we stick too. We need to start with better management of the money instead of just spending.
Most people understand they cannot spend more than they bring in each month. I can purchase long term on credit for big items but I still have to have it figured into my monthly expenses. Congress doesn't do that, they spend and then spend some more. Cut spending, rebuild the tax structure and stick to the budget.
The problem isn't taxing it's spending.
so, we wait until we fail?That is correct. But, fixing the problem has to be done further up stream. Simply not paying the bills for the debts incurred is suicide.
We fail if we screw around with the debt ceiling. I don't believe people have an idea just how dire an economic situation could be created by defaulting on our debt. It could put the world in a depression (which will do the opposite of fixing the debt problem).so, we wait until we fail?
Its both. The solution requires bi-partisan sacrifice, not a demand that the other guy sacrifice. Expecting the other guy to solve the problem and us not to be inconvenienced is pretty immature. You are either serious about the problem and willing to do what it takes or you are not serious.The problem isn't taxing it's spending. The Congress keeps telling us that increases in the economy, the GDP will result in more income to the government in tax revenue, fees licenses issued. That doesn't happen because we don't have a budget that we stick too. We need to start with better management of the money instead of just spending.
Most people understand they cannot spend more than they bring in each month. I can purchase long term on credit for big items but I still have to have it figured into my monthly expenses. Congress doesn't do that, they spend and then spend some more. Cut spending, rebuild the tax structure and stick to the budget.
I am all for taxes, but they must be used if good faith.We fail if we screw around with the debt ceiling. I don't believe people have an idea just how dire an economic situation could be created by defaulting on our debt. It could put the world in a depression (which will do the opposite of fixing the debt problem).
You fix the problem the problem upstream, with the budget. Living within our means includes not generally spending money we do not have, including not cutting taxes when the budget isn't balanced. The exceptions to this, however, are recession, when the government must invest in stimulus as it is the only entity large enough and with the right motivation to actually stimulate the economy during a recession.
The problem is, to fix our deficits, we will need to cut spending AND increase taxes, which will take political will and compromise (and time), neither of which we seem to have in abundance. But, that is the solution, this idea of screwing with the debt ceiling is just terrorism with the terrorist being ignorant of the power of their grenades, which makes this quite scary. What the wack-a-doo far right is setting up is a show with powerful explosives that they do not understand. We can only pray none of us gets hurt.
Its both. The solution requires bi-partisan sacrifice, not a demand that the other guy sacrifice. Expecting the other guy to solve the problem and us not to be inconvenienced is pretty immature. You are either serious about the problem and willing to do what it takes or you are not serious.
BTW... the household budget analogy does not apply to the federal government.
The debt ceiling (or limit) is nothing more than a political toy to be deployed at will when someone wants to make this an issue.
Abolish it.
Accomplishes absolutely nothing. Legislation, no matter the means, determines intentions to spend and tax a long way back. Whenever we hit the next debt limit, it is an guesstimate as to when it will happen assuming the subject ever comes with when Congress passes various intentions to influence spending and taxation.
The only time this becomes an issue is when someone needs it to be simply because they do not control enough of Congress and/or the White House.
What you foolishly overlook is that the reason for needing to "RAISE THE DEBT CEILING" is the mismanagement of Taxes, allUnfortunately for America (and the rest of the world), there are far too many ignorant Americans that believe that issue of raising the debt ceiling is a leverage point in controlling spending. As you well pointed out, this is about paying for the bills we have already incurred, it has nothing to do with spending. Yet, this garbage sells in the fact-free right wing media, so the wack-a-doo, make a show, right wing nuts that now control the Republican party think this plays well to the their voters. The Republican caucus, right now, is controlled by wing-nuts (crazy people). You don't want crazy people making decisions... but that is what is in front of us.
What is scary is they have no idea of the dire consequences of defaulting on our debt. They think they will control spending, but if they screw with this, they will get the opposite result .... at least a much greater expenditure on interest and may a ton of expenditure of stimulus to right the wrong of the recession/depression they create.
I pray these people don't go full stupid.
It's unconstitutional... IMHO
This might be the most moronic post ever made on DP. And there have been some moronic posts over the years. How do you not know that republicans have had total control of congress and the white house, numerous times over the past 40 years?We wouldn't have this problem if democrats knew how to plan a budget and executer it. Instead we haven't had a balanced budget in decades because the democrats don't want it and they also don't want to handle the budget by voting on the 12 major appropriations bills one at a time. Instead we keep getting massive omnibus bills requiring more spending and lots of pork.
Then why don't republicans ever do that?Plan a budget and that's all you get for the year.
and to note the Republicans kept telling the lie that Obama doubled the debt and he didn't
Oh, no ? Do say,,,The debt has been a "runaway train" since after WWII. We never paid the WWII debt down either. You are being a chicken little.
END OF FISCAL YEAR | DEBT (IN BILLIONS, ROUNDED) | DEBT-TO-GDP RATIO | MAJOR EVENTS BY PRESIDENTIAL TERM |
---|
1946 | $269 | 119% | Truman's 1st term budgets and recession |
1952 | $259 | 71% | |
1953 | $266 | 68% | Recession when war ended |
1954 | $271 | 69% | Eisenhower's budgets and Recession |
1955 | $274 | 64% | |
1956 | $273 | 61% | |
1957 | $271 | 57% | Recession |
1958 | $276 | 58% | Eisenhower's 2nd term and recession |
1959 | $285 | 55% | Fed raised rates |
1960 | $286 | 54% | Recession |
1961 | $289 | 52% | Bay of Pigs |
1962 | $298 | 50% | JFK budgets and Cuban missile crisis |
1963 | $306 | 48% | U.S. aids Vietnam, JFK killed |
1964 | $312 | 46% | LBJ's budgets and war on poverty |
1965 | $317 | 43% | U.S. entered Vietnam War |
1966 | $320 | 40% | |
1967 | $326 | 40% | |
1968 | $348 | 39% | |
1969 | $354 | 36% | Nixon took office |
1970 | $371 | 35% | Recession |
1971 | $398 | 35% | Wage-price controls |
1972 | $427 | 34% | Stagflation |
1973 | $458 | 33% | Nixon ended gold standard and OPEC oil embargo |
1974 | $475 | 31% | Watergate and budget process created |
1975 | $533 | 32% | Vietnam War ended |
1976 | $620 | 33% | Stagflation |
1977 | $699 | 34% | Stagflation |
1978 | $772 | 33% | Carter budgets and recession |
1979 | $827 | 32% | |
1980 | $908 | 32% | Volcker raised fed rate to 20% |
1981 | $998 | 31% | Reagan tax cut |
1993 | $4,411 | 63% | Omnibus Budget Act |
2001 | $5,807 | 55% | 9/11 attacks and EGTRRA |
and to note the Republicans kept telling the lie that Obama doubled the debt and he didn't
the ONLY Presidents to double the debt in the last 60 plus years have been Republicans
Reagan almost TRIPLED it and G. W. Bush just over doubled it
But according to the Republicans they know how to cut the debt
have a nice day
END OF FISCAL YEAR | DEBT (IN BILLIONS, ROUNDED) | DEBT-TO-GDP RATIO | MAJOR EVENTS BY PRESIDEN |
---|
2016 | $19,573 | 105% | Brexit |
2017 | $20,245 | 104% | Congress raised the debt ceiling |
2018 | $21,516 | 105% | Trump tax cuts |
2019 | $22,719 | 107% | Trade wars |
2020 | $27,748 | 129% | COVID-19 and 2020 recession |
2021 | $29,617 | 124% | COVID-19 and American Rescue Plan Act |
2022 | $30,824 | 123% | Inflation Reduction Act and student loan forgiveness |
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