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The Debt Ceiling

Geoist said:
You do realize it's your CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS who don't give a shit about the Pentagon losing billions?
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I’m pretty sure a reduction of a single penny would drive both parties to rabid madness.
 
Phys251 said:
The solution is to put Democrats in charge. Deficits go down under Democrats and up under Republicans.
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More to the point, democrats with a spine.
 
Geoist said:
Then watch the the US government go into default, lose its credit rating, and plunge the country into deep recession. But that's what the GOP wants, isn't it?
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What anyone wants is no longer relevant. We’ve been past the point of no return for a long time.
 
Napoleon said:
What anyone wants is no longer relevant. We’ve been past the point of no return for a long time.
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Past the point of no return from what? We've had conservatives cry over the debt for generations and none of the doom-and-gloom they foretold ever came to pass. It's all fearmongering. But, of course, that is what the GOP is best at.
 
multivita-man said:
More to the point, democrats with a spine.
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Geoist said:
Past the point of no return from what? We've had conservatives cry over the debt for generations and none of the doom-and-gloom they foretold ever came to pass. It's all fearmongering. But, of course, that is what the GOP is best at.
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Napoleon said:
Some of them might pay lip service but they vote for an increase every time.
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Largely because they end up being painted by their political opponents (once again, usually GOP) as weak on defense.
 
BlueTex said:
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Ross Perot was another in a long line of populist billionaires who knew how to throw a punch but couldn't take one. He was so thin-skinned that he suspended his campaign. He was a one-issue candidate. Bitching about the national debt probably because he knew that Reagan jammed through anti-commie defense spending and later generations would ask him and other billionaires to pay for it, so he got out front and characterized the national debt as a mom-and-pop, kitchen table issue -- which couldn't be farther from the truth. It's a billionaire's issue because they're the ones who are going to be asked to pay more. But a generation later, they now have control of the courts, the media, and basically have enough influence over congress and state legislatures to thwart efforts to tax them, thus creating a false dichotomy: cut spending or lose government services. There's never talk of raising revenue; just cut spending
 
Geoist said:
Past the point of no return from what? We've had conservatives cry over the debt for generations and none of the doom-and-gloom they foretold ever came to pass. It's all fearmongering. But, of course, that is what the GOP is best at.
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Past the point of no return for any good choices. The only choices are (potentially) crash the economy if the Treasury cannot go even deeper into debt to pay its existing debts or delay the inevitable by enabling that cycle and making the problem worse. There is no good way out of the multi-trillion dollar payday loan cycle this country is in.
 
upsideguy said:
Unfortunately for America (and the rest of the world), there are far too many ignorant Americans that believe that issue of raising the debt ceiling is a leverage point in controlling spending. As you well pointed out, this is about paying for the bills we have already incurred, it has nothing to do with spending. Yet, this garbage sells in the fact-free right wing media, so the wack-a-doo, make a show, right wing nuts that now control the Republican party think this plays well to the their voters. The Republican caucus, right now, is controlled by wing-nuts (crazy people). You don't want crazy people making decisions... but that is what is in front of us.

What is scary is they have no idea of the dire consequences of defaulting on our debt. They think they will control spending, but if they screw with this, they will get the opposite result .... at least a much greater expenditure on interest and may a ton of expenditure of stimulus to right the wrong of the recession/depression they create.

I pray these people don't go full stupid.
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Actually what is unfortunate is not what Americans believe it is that a part of a certain party thinks hurting Americans is good for their goals. They think by creating chaos and economic problems people will be disillusioned about Govt. and want a change from democracy. That small group has been given extraordinary powers in the House and I fear they will use it to hurt America.
 
Napoleon said:
Past the point of no return for any good choices. The only choices are (potentially) crash the economy if the Treasury cannot go even deeper into debt to pay its existing debts or delay the inevitable by enabling that cycle and making the problem worse. There is no good way out of the multi-trillion dollar payday loan cycle this country is in.
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But there is a way to burn down our economy and make Americans suffer. That is what will be the order of the day in the House I fear.
 
Napoleon said:
Past the point of no return for any good choices. The only choices are (potentially) crash the economy if the Treasury cannot go even deeper into debt to pay its existing debts or delay the inevitable by enabling that cycle and making the problem worse. There is no good way out of the multi-trillion dollar payday loan cycle this country is in.
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Let me know when you find a pay day loan business that offers 2.8% interest rate.

Look, I'm not saying we shouldn't take our debt and deficit seriously. We absolutely should. But we all know the GOP doesn't actually buy what it is selling. Just look at how they spend when they are in power (see Phys' chart).
 
iguanaman said:
But there is a way to burn down our economy and make Americans suffer. That is what will be the order of the day in the House I fear.
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Well, it’s going to happen eventually anyway. The debt is a runaway train. America can either take the lumps it has coming so far or add to its pain in the future.
 
Geoist said:
Let me know when you find a pay day loan business that offers 2.8% interest rate.

Look, I'm not saying we shouldn't take our debt and deficit seriously. We absolutely should. But we all know the GOP doesn't actually buy what it is selling. Just look at how they spend when they are in power (see Phys' chart).
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Is doing the right thing for the wrong reasons really so bad?
 
Napoleon said:
Past the point of no return for any good choices. The only choices are (potentially) crash the economy if the Treasury cannot go even deeper into debt to pay its existing debts or delay the inevitable by enabling that cycle and making the problem worse. There is no good way out of the multi-trillion dollar payday loan cycle this country is in.
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Please... Let's take the debt limit to court...
 
Napoleon said:
Well, it’s going to happen eventually anyway. The debt is a runaway train. America can either take the lumps it has coming so far or add to its pain in the future.
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Easy solution, pass a REAL tax increase...
 
BlueTex said:
Please... Let's take the debt limit to court...
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By all means. There’s no judge anywhere that will let the treasury off the hook for its contractual debts for no reason other than Congress doesn’t feel like paying it. So you go on ahead with that argument. I’ll get the popcorn for the asset seizure.
 
Napoleon said:
By all means. There’s no judge anywhere that will let the treasury off the hook for its contractual debts for no reason other than Congress doesn’t feel like paying it.
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And we can then ignore the debt limit... Do you support repealing the Impoundment Control Act?
 
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