The Deal looks to me like a Pie in the Sky for the United States? (1 Viewer)

[Juin]

.

For starters, the thing is very vague. Each item the press puts out only raises more questions! Maybe there will be clarity as more details emerge; but at the moment it is like lending money to an unemployed man on the promise he will pay back when he gets a job. What are his job prospects? Not certain. He is at present on disability. He suffered some serious injuries from his last job. Are his prospects for recovery good? Yea, if he can receive a huge cash infusion for his treatment; but even then the chances he succumbs to his injuries cannot be excluded. Has he got any collateral? Kind of. He has, but some loan sharks have a lien on substantial portions of it.

On the some $350billions Trump claims Senile Joe gifted to Ukraine; which Trump vowed to recoup from a minerals deal. Most agree Joe was magnanimous to the point of senility, but not to the tune of $350billions. Whatever. An initial minerals proposal did momentarily appear to trap Ukraine's sleek snake oil salesman, but he escaped the noose in the final deal.

This deal is a masterpiece of vaguery. Another item of vaguery is a so called United States-Ukraine Reconstruction Investment Fund. Both Ukraine and the US are expected to contribute to it. Why the US should contribute to it is not clear. How the US should contribute is also not clear.

Arms to Ukraine. Trump chastised Senile Joe mercilessly for gifting hundreds of billions of dollars with little in return. Its not clear that the minerals deal does any better. It is claimed the Deal allows the US to contribute to the future Ukraine Reconstruction Fund through arms provided today. I am not sure how that is a departure from Senile Joe gifting them outright.

I will appreciate any clarity on this nebulous Minerals Deal

 

[911Sparky]

From Ukraine's standpoint, it assures some amount of US help into the future, since a Russian win/occupation of Ukraine would put an end to any chance of gaining strategic minerals,
or profiting from the reconstruction of the Ukrainian infrastructure.

 

[Juin]

From Ukraine's standpoint, it assures some amount of US help into the future, since a Russian win/occupation of Ukraine would put an end to any chance of gaining strategic minerals,
or profiting from the reconstruction of the Ukrainian infrastructure.

Agree. From Ukraine's standpoint it is an important beginning. A deal is a deal. It is vague on security guarantees; but in the able hands of Zelensky he can argue, or expand it to mean more

 

[911Sparky]

Agree. From Ukraine's standpoint it is an important beginning. A deal is a deal. It is vague on security guarantees; but in the able hands of Zelensky he can argue, or expand it to mean more

The only security provided by the agreement is trump's hunger to get his hands on the minerals and reconstruction projects. Putin should be very concerned about that aspect of the deal.
trump may be gearing up Trumpco for major work as we speak.

 

[Juin]

The only security provided by the agreement is trump's hunger to get his hands on the minerals and reconstruction projects.

That, in my opinion, is the pie in the sky aspect of the deal. Zelensky managed to protect from Trump all mines and minerals presently under operation.

Putin should be very concerned about that aspect of the deal.
trump may be gearing up Trumpco for major work as we speak.

Exploitation of the minerals is not expected to start anytime soon. Some speculate 10 or more years. Long after Trump is gone

 

[Rogue Valley]

Both Zelernskyy and Trump gained things from the deal.

Most important for Trump... he saved face and preserved his fictional reputation as a "dealmaker".

 

[j brown's body]

Ukraine has given Trump a pointless victory of extortion to atone for refusing to be extorted in Trump's first term in the hopes it will flatter him into supporting them.

We've gone from the senile to the psychotic.

 

[Juin]

Ukraine has given Trump a pointless victory of extortion to atone for refusing to be extorted in Trump's first term in the hopes it will flatter him into supporting them.

We've gone from the senile to the psychotic.

I dont know. I see the deal as favourable to Ukraine. For one, all items that Ukrainians and Europeans considered "extortionary" have been removed. Furthermore the Deal appears to extend an unlimited line of credit for arms purchases to Ukraine

 

[Rogue Valley]

I dont know. I see the deal as favourable to Ukraine. For one, all items that Ukrainians and Europeans considered "extortionary" have been removed. Furthermore the Deal appears to extend an unlimited line of credit for arms purchases to Ukraine

Under Donald Trump, things change faster than you can say "The tariffs are permanent".

 

[Scatty Kitty]

.

For starters, the thing is very vague. Each item the press puts out only raises more questions! Maybe there will be clarity as more details emerge; but at the moment it is like lending money to an unemployed man on the promise he will pay back when he gets a job. What are his job prospects? Not certain. He is at present on disability. He suffered some serious injuries from his last job. Are his prospects for recovery good? Yea, if he can receive a huge cash infusion for his treatment; but even then the chances he succumbs to his injuries cannot be excluded. Has he got any collateral? Kind of. He has, but some loan sharks have a lien on substantial portions of it.

On the some $350billions Trump claims Senile Joe gifted to Ukraine; which Trump vowed to recoup from a minerals deal. Most agree Joe was magnanimous to the point of senility, but not to the tune of $350billions. Whatever. An initial minerals proposal did momentarily appear to trap Ukraine's sleek snake oil salesman, but he escaped the noose in the final deal.

This deal is a masterpiece of vaguery. Another item of vaguery is a so called United States-Ukraine Reconstruction Investment Fund. Both Ukraine and the US are expected to contribute to it. Why the US should contribute to it is not clear. How the US should contribute is also not clear.

Arms to Ukraine. Trump chastised Senile Joe mercilessly for gifting hundreds of billions of dollars with little in return. Its not clear that the minerals deal does any better. It is claimed the Deal allows the US to contribute to the future Ukraine Reconstruction Fund through arms provided today. I am not sure how that is a departure from Senile Joe gifting them outright.

I will appreciate any clarity on this nebulous Minerals Deal

So I'm going to put this bluntly about why it's actually pretty stupid to make a minerals deal with a country at war over land.

Who is going to honor the deal.... if the land is lost? The US isn't getting to get the 'minerals' from Ukraine... if they no longer control the land and give up land in a peace treaty. If anything, Trump now has to fund arms and money to Ukraine to protect its investments. Beforehand, ironically, it actually would have helped US foreign policy not to get too invested into Ukraine other than to sell military surplus. US stays involved in the continent, tells China that "yes, it will defend Taiwan with as much force as Ukraine", and if Ukraine lost then nothing serious was lost. Now with the mineral deal? The US has to keep its investments in Ukraine, which means even more US involvement.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Trump - the bestest dealmaker ever - was content with the Ukraine mineral rights terms and signed off on the deal.

Are you saying Trump made a mistake?

U.S. to acquire rights to rare earth minerals after signing deal with Ukraine

The United States and Ukraine on Wednesday X

www.yahoo.com

 

[Juin]

So I'm going to put this bluntly about why it's actually pretty stupid to make a minerals deal with a country at war over land.

Who is going to honor the deal.... if the land is lost? The US isn't getting to get the 'minerals' from Ukraine... if they no longer control the land and give up land in a peace treaty. If anything, Trump now has to fund arms and money to Ukraine to protect its investments. Beforehand, ironically, it actually would have helped US foreign policy not to get too invested into Ukraine other than to sell military surplus. US stays involved in the continent, tells China that "yes, it will defend Taiwan with as much force as Ukraine", and if Ukraine lost then nothing serious was lost. Now with the mineral deal? The US has to keep its investments in Ukraine, which means even more US involvement.

Exactly! You articulated well an oddity I was grappling with. Thanks to your input I can state with a greater degree of confidence: Trump just bought himself a war.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

Exactly! You articulated well an oddity I was grappling with. Thanks to your input I can state with a greater degree of confidence: Trump just bought himself a war.

No problem. The bigger issue for me isn't that. It's that this isn't the first time has made a terrible deal in the middle of a war. He ended up signing a deal with the Taliban which ultimately led to the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan. I don't think he understands the complexities of the deals that he's signing, or that his deals aren't as good as he wants them to be.

 

[Juin]

No problem. The bigger issue for me isn't that. It's that this isn't the first time has made a terrible deal in the middle of a war. He ended up signing a deal with the Taliban which ultimately led to the chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan. I don't think he understands the complexities of the deals that he's signing, or that his deals aren't as good as he wants them to be.

That's also very unsettling