[h=2]At the end of World War II, the U.S. opened camps of its own, where perhaps a million German prisoners died in secret.[/h]
What has largely escaped the victors’ history books, however, is that another program of internment and mass murder was put together at the end of the war by Allied forces, who took in millions of German prisoners in the summer of 1945 and deliberately starved roughly one in four of them to death.
The story of the Rheinwiesenlager, or “Rhine Camps,” was then covered up and obfuscated by professional historians for decades after the war while the survivors grew old and the prisoner records were destroyed.
As early as 1943, at the Tehran Conference, Roosevelt and Stalin had famously toasted to the shooting of 50,000 German officers after the war.
Somehow I get the impression that the author is nuts.
Stalin was our host at dinner. The company was strictly limited – Stalin and Molotov, the President, Hopkins, Harriman, Clark Kerr, myself and Eden, and our interpreters. After the labours of the Conference, there was a good deal of gaiety, and many toasts were proposed.
Presently Elliott Roosevelt, who had flown out to join his father, appeared at the door, and somebody beckoned him to come in. He therefore took his seat at the table. He even intervened in the conversation, and has since given a highly coloured and extremely misleading account of what he heard.
Stalin, as Hopkins recounts, indulged in a great deal of “teasing” of me, which I did not at all resent until the Marshal entered in a genial manner upon a serious and even deadly aspect of the punishment to be inflicted upon the Germans.
The German General Staff, he said, must be liquidated. The whole force of Hitler’s mighty armies depended upon about fifty thousand officers and technicians. If these were rounded up and shot at the end of the war, German military strength would be extirpated.
On this I thought it right to say: “The British Parliament and public will never tolerate mass executions. Even if in war passion they allowed them to begin, they would turn violently against those responsible after the first butchery had taken place. The Soviets must be under no delusion on this point.”
Stalin however, perhaps only in mischief, pursued the subject. “Fifty thousand,” he said, “must be shot.” I was deeply angered. “I would rather,” I said, “be taken out into the garden here and now and be shot myself than sully my own and my country’s honour by such infamy.”
At this point the President intervened. He had a compromise to propose. Not fifty thousand should be shot, but only forty-nine thousand. By this he hoped, no doubt, to reduce the whole matter to ridicule. Eden also made signs and gestures intended to reassure me that it was all a joke.
But now Elliott Roosevelt rose in his place at the end of the table and made a speech, saying how cordially he agreed with Marshal Stalin’s plan and how sure he was that the United States Army would support it.
At this intrusion I got up and left the table, walking off into the next room, which was in semi-darkness. I had not been there a minute before hands were clapped upon my shoulders from behind, and there was Stalin, with Molotov at his side, both grinning broadly, and eagerly declaring that they were only playing, and that nothing of a serious character had entered their heads.
Stalin has a very captivating manner when he chooses to use it, and I never saw him do so to such an extent as at this moment. Although I was not then, and am not now, fully convinced that all was chaff and there was no serious intent lurking behind, I consented to return, and the rest of the evening passed pleasantly.
Somehow I get the impression that the author is nuts.
Yes heres what really happened in that quote from the memoirs of Winston Churchill
Which author?
New York Times said:when scholars do the necessary research, they will find Mr. Bacque's work to be worse than worthless.
Well he killed 9000 Polish and blamed it on the Germans... sooooSomehow I get the impression that the author is nuts.
Yes heres what really happened in that quote from the memoirs of Winston Churchill
Should we truly trust Winnie's remembrances? This is the same man who ordered the deaths of millions of Indians by starvation out of convenience, stating "there are plenty more wogs."
The NYT was at the bastion of protecting the American war images during and after the war. No American journalist or media would dare the opposite.
Bacque's work is filled with hyperbole, lies, propaganda, misinformation and elements of truth. He wasn't crazy, he had in many respects a more realistic viewpoint.
No nation, no political force, emerged from this war unsullied, without skeletons in the closet. Arguing over who was more evil is a waste of time.
The truth lies somewhere in between and we will never know the details for sure.
My uncles who survived combat during the war, after Hitler's announced death and the end of the war, were stationed in Germany and wherever Americans occupied territory. At night, with pistol and knives in hand, they took up the sports of torturing and killing German males, regardless of age. And they would arm camp survivors to do the same. This was common. It was never reported on the American home front, where prosperity lurked around the corner and the war waited to be forgotten. My father never said word, he'd quietly smile as he sharpened his knife on a small whetstone. They didn't rape. They had plenty of chocolate bars, cigarettes, extra k rations, to buy what they wanted.
No one wins wars by being nice guys. And no can shut off the hate, and hormones built to fight that war with a treaty or pretense.
So in other words you are saying your uncles were serial killers and war criminals? I hope you know that your uncles were psychopaths.
Can you find a verifiable source of these killings?
Bacque is a proven liar, he is no better than holocaust denialist. You cannot believe anything he says. Why should we trust a proven liar who was not there over Winston Churchill?
Somehow I get the impression that the author is nuts.
No, my uncles were not psychopaths. No easy out for you. They were regular American boys, with 3 years of experience fighting Nazis who shot, exploded, tortured and murdered the men they fought alongside, boys who became men who wanted and took vengeance, while you sat on the huge pimply, stinking unwashed derriere of yours and accused those who did the job while you hid. The victors determine who are war criminals, not a coward like you.
Please do tell about your war experiences. Don't tell me what you think you would do. Speak only about what you have done.
Winston Churchill was a psychopathic war criminal who ordered the murder of millions by starvation thanks to his racial bigotry. I won't bother to bring up Gallipoli.
How do I know you aren't a psychopathic murder who has murdered and raped little boys. Prove you are not with verifiable sources. I have no reason to trust you without verifiable documented proofs.
Civilization is a very thin veneer.
Really? Because those are the acts of a psychopath whether you are German or American. Whether you like it not butchering civilians in cold blood is a war crime, especially after the war has ended, that is the very definition. How can you justify that?
Churchill had no reason to lie and he was actually there.
No, my uncles were not psychopaths. No easy out for you. They were regular American boys, with 3 years of experience fighting Nazis who shot, exploded, tortured and murdered the men they fought alongside, boys who became men who wanted and took vengeance, while you sat on the huge pimply, stinking unwashed derriere of yours and accused those who did the job while you hid. The victors determine who are war criminals, not a coward like you.
Please do tell about your war experiences. Don't tell me what you think you would do. Speak only about what you have done.
Winston Churchill was a psychopathic war criminal who ordered the murder of millions by starvation thanks to his racial bigotry. I won't bother to bring up Gallipoli.
How do I know you aren't a psychopathic murder who has murdered and raped little boys. Prove you are not with verifiable sources. I have no reason to trust you without verifiable documented proofs.
Civilization is a very thin veneer.
No, my uncles were not psychopaths. No easy out for you. They were regular American boys, with 3 years of experience fighting Nazis who shot, exploded, tortured and murdered the men they fought alongside, boys who became men who wanted and took vengeance, while you sat on the huge pimply, stinking unwashed derriere of yours and accused those who did the job while you hid. The victors determine who are war criminals, not a coward like you.
Please do tell about your war experiences. Don't tell me what you think you would do. Speak only about what you have done.
Winston Churchill was a psychopathic war criminal who ordered the murder of millions by starvation thanks to his racial bigotry. I won't bother to bring up Gallipoli.
How do I know you aren't a psychopathic murder who has murdered and raped little boys. Prove you are not with verifiable sources. I have no reason to trust you without verifiable documented proofs.
Civilization is a very thin veneer.
Actually, there's this thing called the "Geneva Convention" which makes it pretty ****ing clear that randomly torturing and murdering civilians is a war crime.
You literally just admitted they targeted(if anything you say is actually true, which, since we only have your word for it, is questionable) people indiscriminately. They apparently didn't go hunting for SS officers. They picked out, say Johann Schmuck, age 50, as he walked down the street--- who might have done some nasty things......and far more likely, whose only "crime" was putting on a uniform instead of taking a prison sentence or bullet.
Interestingly enough, millions of Americans have engaged in combat without committing war crimes.
Your argument is downright ludicrous..... much like the claims of both the author, and the OP, who conveniently ignores the gulags all those Germans got shoveled into when he starts whining about how awfully he thinks the US acted.
We're tired of hearing about your uncles. It doesn't make you one of some kind of aristocracy, being related to someone who fought in WW2. Everyone in North America and Europe has relatives that fought in WW2. See if you can discuss WW2 without mentioning your uncles, okay?
"Johann Schmuck" was as guilty as any SS officer. He enabled that SS officer.
I didn't admit anything. I bragged.
BS hyperbole. Less than a million Americans saw combat during the war. You assume because some old men wrote some laws that any soldier during combat gave a crap. Again, these men committed no war crimes, the war was over. Merely because what happened was purposefully omitted from the victor's history books, you have no knowledge, one way or another of what any men did during war and afterwards,
Any German who disappeared into the gulags, got what was deserved.
We're tired of hearing about your uncles. It doesn't make you one of some kind of aristocracy, being related to someone who fought in WW2. Everyone in North America and Europe has relatives that fought in WW2. See if you can discuss WW2 without mentioning your uncles, okay?
Under the war isn’t the reason Russians suffered. Under Ioseph is why they suffered........ that and the malarkey about a popular revolt.complete bull****
my dad is was born 31, my mum 38 in different regions of Westphalia - the american soldiers where very poular, because they came with food and chocolade for the kids - in the east at best they got beaten. And actually I can understand that because the russians suffered much more under the war
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