The big hole in the cosmological argument

[zyzygy]

I only worship the one God but, I see a holy spirit in others to different degrees.

Why can't you give a straight answer? Does the god Krishna exist or not?

 

[Visbek]

God specifically does not have a beginning, or an ending. However the human mind is not good at grasping concepts like eternity, infinity, or similar absolutes.

We can't experience something unlimited; e.g. there isn't enough time in the day to experience an event of infinite duration.

However, we don't have any real issues understanding concepts like eternity or infinity. E.g. Set theory, calculus and other branches of mathematics have no problems dealing with infinity; Cantor developed transfinite numbers; ZFC includes the axiom of infinity, and so forth.

Further, one rejoinder to the cosmological arguments is that the energy that makes up the universe can be "eternal," i.e. neither created nor destroyed. It wasn't always in its current form, but it always existed.

Or, we can say that one reason that creation ex nihilo is impossible is because "nothingness" itself is a contradiction, and makes no sense. E.g. "nothingness" cannot be the "absences of something," because then "nothingness" has a property; and Nothing cannot actually have any properties (including the property of "unable to hold any properties"). The term "nothingness" is actually a reference failure, because there is no thing to refer to. "Nothingness" cannot exist, because if it exists then it is classified as "Something," but "Nothingness" is the total absence of all properties including thing-ness / existence. I.e. if Nothing exists, then it cannot be nothing, because it exists.

Even a vacuum is not Nothingness, because it has properties (temperature, volume, spatial extents). Though we should note that in contemporary quantum theories, we can never have a total vacuum, as that would violate the Uncertainty Principle, and would require that the region of space be at absolute zero. There will always be some zero-point energy in a given region of space.

At best, "nothingness" is a linguistic negation, that only makes sense in a metaphorical sense. When I say "there is nothing in the box," I do not mean "there is a total absence of existence inside the confines of the box." I don't even mean "the box is a vacuum." I mean "there are no ordinary everyday objects in the box."

I.e. perhaps there is Something, because it is impossible for there to be Nothing. In which case, the universe logically must have always existed in some form; and creation ex nihilo is impossible because nihilo is not possible. In which case, there's no logical requirement for a supernatural entity to bring all the universe's energy into being.

Note that this does not disprove the existence of a supernatural creator-deity, only that the cosmological arguments are not valid, as "the energy that makes up the universe has always existed" may not just be logically sound, it's logically necessary.

 

[WCH]

That statement is what I call 'a rationalization'.

That 'statement' is Hebrews 11.

 

[WCH]

Why can't you give a straight answer? Does the god Krishna exist or not?

I wouldn't know but, if I knew some of his followers about might be able to tell if they feel his or her spirit.

 

[RAMOSS]

That 'statement' is Hebrews 11.

Yet another example!

 

[Absentglare]

God cannot be proven or disproven by scientific means. I know what I believe, and why. However, my personal "proofs" would mean little to you, because you were not there.


If one earnestly and sincerely seeks God, I believe you will find him if you really want to. If you "seek" with an attitude of skepticism and disbelief, probably not.


I have nothing to offer in the way of scientific proof that you would accept. Science is not, as an institution, interested in seeing God. I would note, however, that quite a few scientists are also believers, despite this.

I absolutely agree with your first paragraph. We do not have the ability to scientifically prove or disprove God because the theory of God does not make predictions that fall within the domain of science as we know it.

Many people have an intuition for God, and i am grateful that so many can use faith to influence the world for the better. I cannot claim to know that they are wrong or they are right.

Søren Kierkegaard, one of my favorite philosophers, declared that, without doubt, there is no faith. Faith requires a leap. It takes no faith to believe in the existence of something that can be proven to exist, it can be proven!

 

[RAMOSS]

I absolutely agree with your first paragraph. We do not have the ability to scientifically prove or disprove God because the theory of God does not make predictions that fall within the domain of science as we know it.

Many people have an intuition for God, and i am grateful that so many can use faith to influence the world for the better. I cannot claim to know that they are wrong or they are right.

Søren Kierkegaard, one of my favorite philosophers, declared that, without doubt, there is no faith. Faith requires a leap. It takes no faith to believe in the existence of something that can be proven to exist, it can be proven!

Since it doesn't make predictions , from a scientific point of view it is not even a hypothesis. I don't see anybody even DEFINING what God is in a concrete manner, but only using metaphysical terms that are entirely conceptual in nature.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Does God's policy on sexual perversion trouble you?

I don't think we have to know everything God knows even if it were possible.

Do you think your God's hangups reflect his godchildhood?

 

[zyzygy]

I wouldn't know but, if I knew some of his followers about might be able to tell if they feel his or her spirit.

You are saying that he does exist.

 

[devildavid]

We are all puny humans but, you do realize without God, there can be no devil.

There are neither. Except in the imagination of some.

 

[rhinefire]

God laid a turd on Earth. He called it Jesus. Like all turds it was disposed of and thousands of years before Jesus and after Jesus turds still come and go.