The 2026 bill for the Ukraine war is already in the mail

[Roadvirus]

Ukraine cannot keep fighting into 2026 without a significant injection of European money.

Neither can Russia. Russia more so since it is under crippling sanctions.

Even if the war were to stop tomorrow, Ukraine would still face a huge funding black hole.

Which is where the frozen Russian assets come in handy.

This latest request for money is a clear signal that Zelensky is not serious about U.S. demands for peace, and would prefer to continue the fight, drawing directly upon European funds.

And Russia is?

 

[Roadvirus]

Much more likely a recognition that Putin will not stop and Trump can't make him.

Trump doesn't want to stop him.

 

[Roadvirus]

Why are you a warmonger?

Why do you want to let a tyrant continue his campaign of terror?

 

[Roadvirus]

They are protecting their interests against the encroachment.

This is how one protects their interests?

Bucha killings: Satellite image of bodies site contradicts Russian claims

Russia called footage of bodies in Bucha 'staged' but its evidence for this does not stack up.

www.bbc.com

I call that state-sponsored terrorism.

 

[Peter]

Why do you say that? Is that because western countries attacked Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia, Libya for the simple reason that they cannot be stopped? What's all this nonesense like Russia is the only one attacking anyone in the world??? Especially given that UK, US, France, dwarf Russia when it comes to attacking others

So becauise other countries have had wars in the past the actions of Russia are somehow fine?

 

[craig]

They are not invading Europe. They were protecting ethic Russians in Ukraine, securing a military assets that would be lost. I am not defending them. I understand the strategy, and am trying to explain it.

It has been explained over and over. Why do you deny the facts as stated?

The politics of this should be based on avoiding WWIII, which will likely happen if the EU and NATO do not back off.

We've seen this movie before.

Throughout 1938, Adolf Hitler (1889-1945), the leader of Nazi Germany, threatened to occupy the Sudetenland region of Czechoslovakia. The excuse presented was that Sudeten Germans were being repressed
In March 1939, Hitler occupied the Bohemian and Moravian regions of Czechoslovakia, Slovakia became a German client state, and Hungary and Poland grabbed what was left of the old Czechoslovakia. When Hitler invaded Poland in September 1939, Britain and France finally declared war. Czechoslovakia had been betrayed and bargained away for nothing.

 

[j brown's body]

At this point neither Russia or Ukr wants the war to stop

What an ignorant comment. Such a callous insult to Ukrainians. Of course Ukraine wants peace that can only come from Russia withdrawing it's troops.

 

[j brown's body]

Why do you say that? Is that because western countries attacked Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia, Libya for the simple reason that they cannot be stopped? What's all this nonesense like Russia is the only one attacking anyone in the world??? Especially given that UK, US, France, dwarf Russia when it comes to attacking others

Because it's what Putin has said he wants.

Putin’s history lecture reveals his dreams of a new Russian Empire

Vladimir Putin turned his hotly anticipated interview with Tucker Carlson into a history lecture that laid bare the dangerous delusions and imperial ambitions driving the invasion of Ukraine, writes Peter Dickinson.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

 

[Fledermaus]

They are protecting their interests against the encroachment.

What encroachment?

 

[Juin]

So because other countries have had wars in the past the actions of Russia are somehow fine?

I am simply challenging that holier than thou attitude when it comes to Russia that is prevalent in the western press at large, as well as in dp.

 

[Juin]

What an ignorant comment. Such a callous insult to Ukrainians. Of course Ukraine wants peace that can only come from Russia withdrawing it's troops.

What about Ukrainians of Crimea and Donbass who want out? Ukraine gets to keep by force folks they dont like; folks they despise; folks whose Church they banned; folks whose monuments they destroyed; folks whose media and publications they banned?

 

[j brown's body]

What about Ukrainians of Crimea and Donbass who want out? Ukraine gets to keep by force folks they dont like; folks they despise; folks whose Church they banned; folks whose monuments they destroyed; folks whose media and publications they banned?

That's an internal matter.

 

[j brown's body]

I am simply challenging that holier than thou attitude when it comes to Russia that is prevalent in the western press at large, as well as in dp.

Tell it to the Ukranians. How many of them did Stalin murder? 4 million?

 

[soap box]

That is not a Russian demand or in the cards

He has ordered bombings throughout the country. This is an effort to destroy morale and infrastructure in places that are far from the Eastern Oblasts. The attacks in western parts of Ukraine show how he wants to destabilize systems to the point where he can control Ukraine militarily and install a new government or annex the whole country, not just taking the Oblasts. This is real to him.

Kyiv, Zhytomyr, Khmelnytskyi, Ternopil and more were attacked last week at the same time the Kremlin was announcing the demands.

There's another indicator; Putin is not intending to allow Eastern Oblasts to pursue independence or be a new nation. They will be annexed, like Crimea is not an independent country. If Putin was telling the truth about his intentions, Zelensky and Putin would request a new referendum and invite EU officials or other international monitoring organizations. That would be convincing, whereas a war is not. With a ceasefire and a peaceful vote, the question would be answered and the killing would stop.

I don't trust Putin. Do you?

~~
Russia's primary territorial demands in Ukraine involve the four regions it illegally annexed in 2022: Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson, according to the Institute for the Study of War. Additionally, Russia demands Ukraine recognize Crimea as Russian territory and acknowledge the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk. Putin has also reportedly maintained a demand for Ukraine to cede all of these four oblasts, even though Russia doesn't fully occupy them

The real meaning of this is Putin's way of refusing to stop now.

Wouldn't the question be about where concentrations of separatists and ethnic Russians were living? Instead of asking which tanks are in which town? I would rather know the vote of which group in which part of which oblast. That would require an internationally observed new referendum, but Putin can't do it because he can't control the voting so we just have to have a war instead and kill half a million people.

No . Neither Russia nor Ukraine can achieve all their territorial goals.. the war ends when both feel that warring cannot improve their positions

See? I don't trust him. Let's say they maintain a ceasefire and come to a solution in negotiations. Putin also has demanded that NATO cannot expand and Ukraine can never be a member. That means Ukraine has a short peace but no security guarantee or agreements and Putin can use the year or two to rearm and just roll the tanks back again into whatever countryside isn't yet his.

Seriously, the guy's so delusional he thinks the Soviet Union wasn't legally dissolved.

What difference would it make that the USSR wasn't legally dissolved 35 years ago, unless someone wants to restore it. Otherwise why would it make any difference to anyone now?

Putin is the only one who can stop this war. But he won't.

 

[anatta]

He has ordered bombings throughout the country. This is an effort to destroy morale and infrastructure in places that are far from the Eastern Oblasts. The attacks in western parts of Ukraine show how he wants to destabilize systems to the point where he can control Ukraine militarily and install a new government or annex the whole country, not just taking the Oblasts. This is real to him.

Yes Putin is using air war to destroy industry /infrastructure/spread terror . Noting new in war there. And I question the damage reports which are always "so many civilians killed" but not a word about losses or infrastructure targeting/ Ukr is secretive and wants to make it look lik Russia is only hitting civilians. Obviously the Russian target war prosecution interests.

Putin's stated goal is cementing Crimea as part of Russia , and getting as much territory as he can. He also wants to get rid of Z and de-Nazify and prevent NATO expansion into Ukr.
He will probably get NATO guarantee. I wonder just how keen the Euro NATO states would be responding to an Article 5 alert from Kyiv if Ukr became a NATO state ??

Kyiv, Zhytomyr, Khmelnytskyi, Ternopil and more were attacked last week at the same time the Kremlin was announcing the demands.

and??

There's another indicator; Putin is not intending to allow Eastern Oblasts to pursue independence or be a new nation. They will be annexed, like Crimea is not an independent country. If Putin was telling the truth about his intentions, Zelensky and Putin would request a new referendum and invite EU officials or other international monitoring organizations. That would be convincing, whereas a war is not. With a ceasefire and a peaceful vote, the question would be answered and the killing would stop.

Impossible to set an election in the southern/ eastern oblasts. they are war zones

I don't trust Putin. Do you?

Trust doesn't factor in. Negotiations should produce a settlement - sadly not in the forseable futures. But assuming terms are reached the border will be highly militarized - similar to the DMZ-which is how the new border would be guaranteed

The real meaning of this is Putin's way of refusing to stop now.

Z wont stop either. He has his own demands like return of all lands

Wouldn't the question be about where concentrations of separatists and ethnic Russians were living? Instead of asking which tanks are in which town? I would rather know the vote of which group in which part of which oblast. That would require an internationally observed new referendum, but Putin can't do it because he can't control the voting so we just have to have a war instead and kill half a million people.

Generally the further east and south parts of Ukraine are more Russian. Has war has shook up old loyalties? Or hardened against Kyiv rule which was common pre-war?

See? I don't trust him. Let's say they maintain a ceasefire and come to a solution in negotiations. Putin also has demanded that NATO cannot expand and Ukraine can never be a member. That means Ukraine has a short peace but no security guarantee or agreements and Putin can use the year or two to rearm and just roll the tanks back again into whatever countryside isn't yet his.

Militarize border security

Seriously, the guy's so delusional he thinks the Soviet Union wasn't legally dissolved.

What difference would it make that the USSR wasn't legally dissolved 35 years ago, unless someone wants to restore it. Otherwise why would it make any difference to anyone now?

Putin is the only one who can stop this war. But he won't.

Both parties have to agree towards peace

 

[j brown's body]

Yes Putin is using air war to destroy industry /infrastructure/spread terror . Noting new in war there. And I question the damage reports which are always "so many civilians killed" but not a word about losses or infrastructure targeting/ Ukr is secretive and wants to make it look lik Russia is only hitting civilians. Obviously the Russian target war prosecution interests.

Putin's stated goal is cementing Crimea as part of Russia , and getting as much territory as he can. He also wants to get rid of Z and de-Nazify and prevent NATO expansion into Ukr.
He will probably get NATO guarantee. I wonder just how keen the Euro NATO states would be responding to an Article 5 alert from Kyiv if Ukr became a NATO state ??

and??

Impossible to set an election in the southern/ eastern oblasts. they are war zones

Trust doesn't factor in. Negotiations should produce a settlement - sadly not in the forseable futures. But assuming terms are reached the border will be highly militarized - similar to the DMZ-which is how the new border would be guaranteed

Z wont stop either. He has his own demands like return of all lands

Generally the further east and south parts of Ukraine are more Russian. Has war has shook up old loyalties? Or hardened against Kyiv rule which was common pre-war?

Militarize border security



Both parties have to agree towards peace

It's his frickin' right to demand the return of land stolen from his country.

And we should help him get it. If we don't stand for ideals like respect for international law, we're no better than thug Russia.

 

[anatta]

What an ignorant comment. Such a callous insult to Ukrainians. Of course Ukraine wants peace that can only come from Russia withdrawing it's troops.

The populace is war weary. Some want to fight till they throw out the Russians. Everyone wants the war over, but does Z defer an end until he improves his strategic position? he needs the cards to negotiate.

 

[anatta]

It's his frickin' right to demand the return of land stolen from his country.

And we should help him get it. If we don't stand for ideals like respect for international law, we're no better than thug Russia.

"as long as it takes" is a very long time in this case

 

[j brown's body]

"as long as it takes" is a very long time in this case

Doesnt have to be. Russia is teetering.

Imagine pulling out of WWII or the Civil War because it took too long.

 

[anatta]

Doesnt have to be. Russia is teetering.

lots of ways to look at advantages for both sides. here's your POV

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/5322260-why-time-is-not-on-russias-side-in-ukraine/

Imagine pulling out of WWII or the Civil War because it took too long.

Those were existential battles for a nation. Unfortunately Ukr bet on the west at the Maidan and Putin now sees Ukr as an existential threat from the west

 

[j brown's body]

lots of ways to look at advantages for both sides. here's your POV

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/5322260-why-time-is-not-on-russias-side-in-ukraine/

Those were existential battles for a nation. Unfortunately Ukr bet on the west at the Maidan and Putin now sees Ukr as an existential threat from the west

Yes, and we can provide great advantage.

Those wars were fought to protect principles - for the right of people to live in freedom and international law. That is what we have here.

 

[soap box]

By what motivation? Who else has ethnic Russians to protect, or a military base that would have been lost?

Lord Chamberlain asked almost the same thing.

There is a hard link. In the case of Crimea, had the Ukraine become a EU member, Russia would very likely lost their access to Sevastopol, and probably their Navel base there as well.

I don't accept that premise.

That was not going to happen until the illegal ousting of the president in 2014.

I don't accept that premise. Do you trust Putin?

30 years ago, the left in the USA was different. Things change over time. Russia will not accept that region to have the EU, a government that clearly hates them at that border. They will fight tooth and nail to protect that border from having the EU, or NATO on the other side. Ukraine has been a buffer country that could trade with either side. They ousted the president in 2014 for making a $15 billion dollar trade deal with Russia. Look at the lost trade though eastern Ukraine lost, for politics.

The politics the the EU demanded take place for them to be a member.

Does not matter. Situations change with time. That is a very short-sighted attitude.

He says he needs a buffer but he's the one who got Finland and Sweeden to join. He wants NATO to give him an agreement for security of no new members and he's doing the attacking.

Did NATO ever start a war? Putin did.

Putin did not stat that war.

Over and out.

Ukraine did, against their own rebellious people. The ethnic Russians were rebelling. Russian came in and helped once they declared secession.

What was the total both Ukrainian and separatists KIA before 2022?

What was the total Ukrainians KIA since February 2022?

You are assuming Did NATO ever start a war and propaganda. You deny the reality. That is why it does not make sense to you.

Ok
Putin wants an agreement that NATO will never add new countries and Ukraine cannot be a member. That's a security commitment for Russia he wants from NATO.


Ukraine is asking for its own security agreement from member countries like France. Putin opposes Ukraine having an alliance or entering into a security agreement. That's not a security commitment for Ukraine.

The man attacking others is demanding that he is better defended! He might really think that NATO is a threat to him, but that's either because he is still planning greater conquest
OR
He's really that delusional to think he'll rebuild the USSR.

If you have a third possibility, I will listen.

Try to think outside of that the talking heads tell you to believe. Look at all the possibilities, then look at which facts fit best where.

NATO only matters to Putin because it could stop future invasions.

Putin started this war. Putin ordered the invasion of Ukraine.

 

[Hamish Howl]

This latest request for money is a clear signal that Zelensky is not serious about U.S. demands for peace, and would prefer to continue the fight, drawing directly upon European funds.

Oh, for ****'s sake.

 

[soap box]

Yes Putin is using air war to destroy industry /infrastructure/spread terror . Noting new in war there. And I question the damage reports which are always "so many civilians killed" but not a word about losses or infrastructure targeting/ Ukr is secretive and wants to make it look lik Russia is only hitting civilians. Obviously the Russian target war prosecution interests.

Putin's stated goal is cementing Crimea as part of Russia , and getting as much territory as he can. He also wants to get rid of Z and de-Nazify and prevent NATO expansion into Ukr.
He will probably get NATO guarantee. I wonder just how keen the Euro NATO states would be responding to an Article 5 alert from Kyiv if Ukr became a NATO state ??

and??

Impossible to set an election in the southern/ eastern oblasts. they are war zones

Trust doesn't factor in. Negotiations should produce a settlement - sadly not in the forseable futures. But assuming terms are reached the border will be highly militarized - similar to the DMZ-which is how the new border would be guaranteed

Z wont stop either. He has his own demands like return of all lands

Generally the further east and south parts of Ukraine are more Russian. Has war has shook up old loyalties? Or hardened against Kyiv rule which was common pre-war?

Militarize border security



Both parties have to agree towards peace

I can't reply to ribbons anymore.

Putin has broken every accord, agreement, treaty that Ukraine has been a part of. What makes you sure he's not going to invade another country after this?

I somewhat agree with about half you posted But there's more.

I bet we agree that trump can't stop this war.
What would it look like for Zelensky to stop this war? Would Ukraine declare a unilateral ceasefire? How would it happen, Zelensky ending the war?

Why can't Putin order a conditional ceasefire tomorrow?

Putin is the person responsible for this war and the only one right now who could stop it.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Why are you a warmonger?

Why do you consider supporting the invaded side warmongering?

Was the UK warmongering when it tried to help France stop the Nazis in WWII?