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Texas Teen Faces Capital Murder Charges in Bathroom Death of Her Newborn

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aps

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This news came out in June 2008, but I just now found it. I had railed against this girl for her actions back when it occurred in April 2008. I was told by many on this message board that nothing would come of it (the girl would not be charged with a crime). WRONG.

Yippee!

Texas Teen Faces Capital Murder Charges in Bathroom Death of Her Newborn

A 14-year-old girl who secretly gave birth in a school bathroom was charged with capital murder Thursday by police, who said she killed the newborn by choking and flushing him in the toilet.

The girl was charged as a juvenile; Baytown police Capt. Roger Clifford said prosecutors will decide whether to certify her as an adult. She cannot be executed if convicted because of her age.

FOXNews.com - Texas Teen Faces Capital Murder Charges in Bathroom Death of Her Newborn - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News
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Does the barbaric US still kill folk for child crimes? If so, I suppose they get to whoop with the odd extreme human rights abusing country.
 
Being charged as a minor is perfectly appropriate for the circumstances. She clearly took actions that were unacceptable, and she certainly knew what she was doing was wrong. However, she is only 14 and the adults responsible for her failed to act.
 
I can't imagine why anyone would be happy about any part of this story.
 
aps said:
Well, I am happy that she has been charged. Imagine it.
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When I imagine it, I imagine the stress she must've been going through, and I wonder what would have pushed her to make such a decision. I just don't imagine that this was "meanness" or "murderous." Just tragic that this poor girl would be in such a position as to have a baby in a bathroom by herself. I mean, just imagine what kind of 14yo life she must have existed in.
 
Very difficult to try a female 14-year-old as an adult, even in Texas. They're too sympathetic on the witness stand.
We frequently try male 14-year-olds as adults, though, as long as they're minorities and can't afford their own legal counsel.
 
Summerwind said:
When I imagine it, I imagine the stress she must've been going through, and I wonder what would have pushed her to make such a decision. I just don't imagine that this was "meanness" or "murderous." Just tragic that this poor girl would be in such a position as to have a baby in a bathroom by herself. I mean, just imagine what kind of 14yo life she must have existed in.
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So then we try her as a minor and she pretty much gets off the hook with probation and juvy.

As for me, I'm glad. There is nothing on this planet or in the entire universe that can allow a person to kill something as innocent as a newborn baby. Only monsters do that, not people who have to take stress pills.
 
What she did should earn her a trip Death Row INSTANTLY!
Age is irrelevant when it comes to malicious, pre-meditated murder.

This is not a case of some kid tying a string around their friends throat as they play make believe "puppy dog" games and one kids is strangled. What is wrong with people? Jesus ****ing Christ people are so God Damn Dense it is amazing.

14 year-olds can make rational decisions... She did. She has to pay the price. Death.
It is about consequences. It is not about revenge. Death.

Hell, I'll pull the lever or the trigger and be feel just fine and dandy that I did.
 
Bodhisattva said:
What she did should earn her a trip Death Row INSTANTLY!
Age is irrelevant when it comes to malicious, pre-meditated murder.

This is not a case of some kid tying a string around their friends throat as they play make believe "puppy dog" games and one kids is strangled. What is wrong with people? Jesus ****ing Christ people are so God Damn Dense it is amazing.

14 year-olds can make rational decisions... She did. She has to pay the price. Death.
It is about consequences. It is not about revenge. Death.

Hell, I'll pull the lever or the trigger and be feel just fine and dandy that I did.
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Cool. I guess you won't mind someone doing the same to your girls in a couple of years, when they get raped and end up giving birth alone in a public restroom.
This is a raped child we are talking about.
A child who had no one to turn to for help, and probably didn't have a clue what was even happening.
Society has failed her miserably.
It's all of us who deserve punishment for this failure. Not her.
She's been punished enough, and she never even did anything wrong in the first place.
 
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1069 said:
Cool. I guess you won't mind someone doing the same to your girls in a couple of years, when they get raped and end up giving birth alone in a public restroom.
This is a raped child we are talking about.
A child who had no one to turn to for help, and probably didn't have a clue what was even happening.
Society has failed her miserably.
It's all of us who deserve punishment for this failure. Not her.
She's been punished enough, and she never even did anything wrong in the first place.
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So if you get raped, you are allowed to kill a person?
Interesting logic.
 
Nobody can take you seriously when you advocate the state-sanctioned murder of victimized children.
Rather, the entire faculty of the Houston middle school the child attended ought to be fired and brought up on criminal charges, her parents ought to be arrested, an investigation ought to be launched into who victimized the child in the first place, so that person can be brought to justice, and the entire Harris County Child Protective Services Division ought to be investigated, the aim of the investigation being to explore why they are so lax in their duties, and correct whatever deficits are found.
All of these individuals and entities should then be fined in such an amount as to pay for whatever therapy this child needs for the rest of her life, since their negligence in failing to protect her led to this horrible trauma in the first place.
 
1069 said:
Nobody can take you seriously when you advocate the state-sanctioned murder of victimized children.
Rather, the entire faculty of the Houston middle school the child attended ought to be fired and brought up on criminal charges, her parents ought to be arrested, an investigation ought to be launched into who victimized the child in the first place, so that person can be brought to justice, and the entire Harris County Child Protective Services Division ought to be investigated, the aim of the investigation being to explore why they are so lax in their duties, and correct whatever deficits are found.
All of these individuals and entities should then be fined in such an amount as to pay for whatever therapy this child needs for the rest of her life, since their negligence in failing to protect her led to this horrible trauma in the first place.
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Wait... So you are saying that she was raped by some guy, but her parents should be arrested and a bunch of innocent teachers should be fired and brought up on some criminal charges, while then in the same sentence you say that the person of guilt should be found and brought to justice... that this is more reasonable than finding this young adult guilty of murdering her newborn... of strangling to death and flushing the baby down the toilet, and making her face the consequences of such action?

Really? You really think that.

Wow. Seriously... Wow. This goes beyond your usual hatred and bias Ten.

Yeah... I am the one that people are finding so hard to take "Seriously" here. :roll:


:2wave:
 
In Illinois - for any reason - an unwanted newborn can be dropped off at a police station, fire station, hospital, DCFS office etc. with no questions asked. The incidences of infantcide have dropped dramatically since the implementation of this law. Does Texas have a similar schema?
 
Tashah said:
In Illinois - for any reason - an unwanted newborn can be dropped off at a police station, fire station, hospital, DCFS office etc. with no questions asked. The incidences of infantcide have dropped dramatically since the implementation of this law. Does Texas have a similar schema?
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That is awesome. But I am afraid that those that simply don't want to have to be "pregnant" or go through the "birthing process" will still think that it is fine to kill the baby due to its inconvenience.
 
Bodhisattva said:
That is awesome. But I am afraid that those that simply don't want to have to be "pregnant" or go through the "birthing process" will still think that it is fine to kill the baby due to its inconvenience.
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What baby? :confused:
 
Tashah said:
In Illinois - for any reason - an unwanted newborn can be dropped off at a police station, fire station, hospital, DCFS office etc. with no questions asked. The incidences of infantcide have dropped dramatically since the implementation of this law. Does Texas have a similar schema?
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Texas was the first in the nation to enact Safe Haven laws (in 1999).
All states now have them, except Alaska, Hawaii, and DC, last time i checked (around 2006).
That does not help this child, however, who was obviously incapable of making her way to a hospital or police station. She was too young to drive; she was in labor and probably didn't know what was going on. No one, of the dozens or hundreds of adults who saw her each day and were entrusted with safeguarding her, apparently saw fit to assist with this situation in any way.

Hey, check out Nebraska's Safe Haven Law: link

It's not too late for me to abandon my two troublesome punks, apparently, with absolutely no legal ramifications. Wow. That's tempting.
Although I'd have to move to Nebraska, which would really suck, because that's where the Children of the Corn live.
If I stay here, on the other hand, I can just kick them out whenever I feel like it. What kind of state forces you to abandon your 19-year-old at a Safe Haven drop-off center? I mean, how exactly would you get them to go along with it?
"Honey, come on! Grandpa's had a heart attack, we have to go to the hospital and visit him. Okay, you wait right here on this bench with these other kids for a minute, and I'll... be back in a little while." :bolt
 
Tashah said:
In Illinois - for any reason - an unwanted newborn can be dropped off at a police station, fire station, hospital, DCFS office etc. with no questions asked. The incidences of infantcide have dropped dramatically since the implementation of this law. Does Texas have a similar schema?
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I did not know this. This is what EVERY state should do.
 
aps said:
I did not know this. This is what EVERY state should do.
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Every state in the continental US does it.
Hawaii and Alaska might do it too, by now.
Like I said, I haven't been involved with that issue since 2006.
But as of 2006, every state had it.

I was against it, personally; part of a group that was protesting it.
People can steal infants and small children, out of revenge or to molest or whatever, and then drop them at these anonymous locations and their parents never get them back.
Parents can drop off their teenage daughter's baby without telling her, and no one's the wiser. Fathers who want to get out of paying child support or are angry at their baby-mamas can drop off their babies, and the baby's mother will never be able to find it.
Mothers can drop off their babies, and the fathers will never see their children again.

I don't think you're putting much thought into the ramifications of an "anonymous baby drop", if you think it sounds like a great thing.
Your next door neighbor could get pissed off at you tomorrow, take your kid, and drop him off at a Safe Haven.
There's no way to retrieve children from these things.
 
Okay, I have a few questions, because I'm not familiar with the story.

How do we know the girl was raped?

Does this child live with her parents?

If so, how did this kid's mother not realize that her little girl was pregnant? She's barely a year older than my daughter and let me tell you that if she was pregnant I would KNOW.


Ten, I agree with you that her parents or legal guardians should definitely bear some of the responsibility in this tragedy, but I do disagree when you say that she didn't do anything wrong. She did. She killed her baby. At 14, unless you're mentally unbalanced, you know the difference between right and wrong. You know that it's just not right to shove toilet paper down a newborn's throat and then try to flush it down the toilet.

I realize that there might be extenuating circumstances and that this child was probably not thinking clearly, but she still killed someone. I'm not sure what kind of punishment I'd be comfortable she be given, but I'm also not comfortable with the idea of her getting off with a slap on the wrist.
 
1069 said:
Every state in the continental US does it.
Hawaii and Alaska might do it too, by now.
Like I said, I haven't been involved with that issue since 2006.
But as of 2006, every state had it.

I was against it, personally; part of a group that was protesting it.
People can steal infants and small children, out of revenge or to molest or whatever, and then drop them at these anonymous locations and their parents never get them back.
Parents can drop off their teenage daughter's baby without telling her, and no one's the wiser. Fathers who want to get out of paying child support or are angry at their baby-mamas can drop off their babies, and the baby's mother will never be able to find it.
Mothers can drop off their babies, and the fathers will never see their children again.

I don't think you're putting much thought into the ramifications of an "anonymous baby drop", if you think it sounds like a great thing.
Your next door neighbor could get pissed off at you tomorrow, take your kid, and drop him off at a Safe Haven.
There's no way to retrieve children from these things.
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What do you mean there's no way to retrieve the children from a Safe Haven? That just doesn't sound right. Is the mother not allowed to change her mind and go get her kid back?

We have a similar system here that was put in place by a pro-life group at a local hospital, but the parents have a whole year to reclaim custody of their child before it's put up for adoption.
 
Arcana XV said:
What do you mean there's no way to retrieve the children from a Safe Haven? That just doesn't sound right. Is the mother not allowed to change her mind and go get her kid back?

We have a similar system here that was put in place by a pro-life group at a local hospital, but the parents have a whole year to reclaim custody of their child before it's put up for adoption.
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No. it's an anonymous drop-off, a consequence-free infant and child abandonment program.
The child is rapidly whisked away into the CPS machine, and, as a no-strings infant, adopted almost immediately.
Many, many women- specifically- are using Safe Haven as a means to relinquish children for adoption when the father of the child is unconsenting and refuses to sign away his rights.
This is happening far more often than infants were ever abandoned in dumpsters.
Look it up and read about it.
Some states are now going back to stricter laws due to the problems they've had with completely anonymous Safe Havens.
 
1069 said:
No. it's an anonymous drop-off, a consequence-free infant and child abandonment program.
The child is rapidly whisked away into the CPS machine, and, as a no-strings infant, adopted almost immediately.
Many, many women- specifically- are using Safe Haven as a means to relinquish children for adoption when the father of the child is unconsenting and refuses to sign away his rights.
This is happening far more often than infants were ever abandoned in dumpsters.
Look it up and read about it.
Some states are now going back to stricter laws due to the problems they've had with completely anonymous Safe Havens.
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Woah. That's pretty drastic. It's completely anonymous here too, but people are still given a chance to come forward and take their child back. We have only had two cases of newborns dropped off at the "baby-box", as it's called here, since it first opened in 2002.
 
First, about the rape allegation - this child had to be 13 or barely 14 when she became pregnant. In many states, anyone having sex with a child this age has committed rape (though two same age kids bumping uglies are very rarely charged). A child this age is not capable of understanding the very serious nature of the potential long-term ramifications of having sex and not capable of understanding that the strong feelings that come with physical intimacy are not necessarily love.

Second - trying a 14 yo as an adult in this situation has to be among the most ludicrous things I've ever heard. This was an extremely frightened child who had just given birth alone and without any pain meds. There is no way that this child could have been in her normal state of mind when she killed the newborn.

Third - a 14 yo is not capable of understanding the ramifications of murder. We adults are given sweeping legal rights to restrict them and violate their rights on a regular basis because society recognizes they are very limited in their ability to make decisions that are in their own best interest (much less the interest of their child) - they aren't allowed to drink or smoke; we can force them to bathe; restrict where they go, who they see, and their contact with the outside world (you're grounded); we can force them to eat veggies instead of junk foods, go to bed at a reasonable hour; we can tell them they can't watch certain TV programs, listen to certain music or play certain video games because they contain material we deem inappropriate for their age.

Fourth - one of my grandchildren was the victim of an internet pedophile (now serving 50 years in prison) and had a child at age 14. Under GA law, the newborn was immediately placed in the custody of an adult (his grandmother) when he was born because the state recognized that a 14 yo child was not capable of making the many decisions necessary for this child.

I submit that a 14 yo who commits the heinous act of killing a newborn under these circumstances cannot be held to the same level of responsibility that a 21 yo committing this sort of act can be held because the circumstances have exceeded the ability of a 14 yo to make rational, well thought out decisions.
 
1069 said:
No. it's an anonymous drop-off, a consequence-free infant and child abandonment program.
The child is rapidly whisked away into the CPS machine, and, as a no-strings infant, adopted almost immediately.
Many, many women- specifically- are using Safe Haven as a means to relinquish children for adoption when the father of the child is unconsenting and refuses to sign away his rights.
This is happening far more often than infants were ever abandoned in dumpsters.
Look it up and read about it.
Some states are now going back to stricter laws due to the problems they've had with completely anonymous Safe Havens.
Click to expand...
I can't speak to what other states do, but in TN, the child is legally in foster care for about 7 months. The first 90 days are the time when the parent can change their mind and retrieve the infant (records are kept about when and where the infant was placed in the program to facilitate finding the infant). Beyond that, the state waits four months and then terminates the parental rights of the birth parents under the abandonment statutes (no contact for four months constitutes abandonment in TN). Once the parental rights are terminated, the legal adoption proceedings are started and the child is legally transfered to an adoptive family.

What happens in practice is that many adoptive families volunteer to take infants that are dropped off at Save Haven as foster children with the full understanding that they may not get to keep the child if the parents attempt to reclaim it within seven months. If the parents do not reclaim the infant, its is adopted by the family that took it in.

Not sure what other states do, but the info on missing children nationwide is compared to the children dropped at Safe Haven in this state to try to assure that a snatched child is not placed in this program. Is it fail safe? Probably not, but no one wants to allow the sort of use of this program that 1069 describes.
 
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