Tesla, $1 trillion pay for Musk, and US democracy

[eman623]

BYD is everywhere except the US and Canada.

They aren’t “shit” cars.

Believe that they are to the peril of US auto manufacturing.

I mean… if only we have an example from the past where an Asian country was making the vehicles that the consumer actually wanted that were well built and affordable and not the giant land yachts that are poorly built.

They are affordable because they are subsidized pieces of shit. And even then few outside of China will touch them.

 

[eman623]

And that would be a mistake.

Why? Because Musk likes the bad orange man?

 

[SCrider]

Why? Because Musk likes the bad orange man?

No, because they are not the best EV available in the market. They have had all kinds of issues with quality control and assembly.

 

[Jezcoe]

They are affordable because they are subsidized pieces of shit. And even then few outside of China will touch them.

Man… if we could only go back in time and see what was being said about Japanese cars in the 70’s.

 

[eman623]

Man… if we could only go back in time and see what was being said about Japanese cars in the 70’s.

You do know that Chinese and Japanese are two very different peoples, right

 

[eman623]

No, because they are not the best EV available in the market. They have had all kinds of issues with quality control and assembly.

You mean like every other startup automaker? Tesla built the EV market pretty much single handedly.

 

[Jezcoe]

You do know that Chinese and Japanese are two very different peoples, right

I think that the point has been missed.

China is an advanced manufacturing powerhouse.

The US has willingly ceded the manufacturing of the EV market to them for the profit of the oil companies

 

[bullseyelqcs]

Musk has done more to make EVs a real thing than any other person on the planet. Not sure if that's worth a trillion, but if I was going to buy an EV, I'd start at the Tesla dealership.

Just bought a Volkswagen ID.4. Cheaper, nicer looking and best of all, not a Tesla.

 

[Visbek]

Tesla IIRC paid Musk $54 billion. Then it paid him $27 billion. Now it's voting on a $1 trillion payment, at least with some conditions. Musk was IIRC trump's biggest donor, quite possibly allowing him to win and Republicans to win, spending about $100-$300 million, about 2/10000 of $1 trillion, which let him run wild slashing critical spending, with a stated goal to cut $2 trillion falling far short. It allows the corruption of our government.

Tesla to award Musk an unparalleled $1 trillion - depending on performance

Tesla's board has proposed a $1 trillion compensation plan for CEO Elon Musk in what would be the largest corporate pay package in history, underscoring the hold Musk has over the carmaker as it attempts to transform into an AI and robotics powerhouse.

www.reuters.com

Yeah, it's obviously just sheer insanity. Anyone who still buys TSLA stock today is a blithering idiot.

For example, they just tossed $30 billion of stock at him, claiming he'd walk if he didn't get it. That's utter nonsense, as his Tesla holdings make up almost all of his personal wealth. And guess what? Now they're saying that wasn't enough to keep him focused. Meaning that $30 billion payout was for nothing, and he STILL isn't doing anything at Tesla.

The one saving grace here is that the milestones are utterly laughable. He'd have to double Tesla's market cap; sell another 4.5 million cars, at a time when sales are tanking; sell one million Optimus robots, when they're still vaporware; sell 1 million robotaxis, which are also still vaporware; and increase earnings from $16 billion to $400 billion, again at a time when sales are cratering.

There's no requirements for him to stop working at any other companies or for the government.

This isn't a serious offer. It's a sop to a malignant narcissist, by a Board of Directors that are too corrupt or cowardly to realize that Tesla's only chance of survival is dumping Musk.

 

[Allan]

I think that the point has been missed.

China is an advanced manufacturing powerhouse.

The US has willingly ceded the manufacturing of the EV market to them for the profit of the oil companies

BYD and other recent Chinese EVs are getting high marks from reviewers.

2024 BYD Seal Review: If You Could Buy One, You'd Probably Want To
BYD has made a car that’s good to drive, doesn’t cost the earth, looks great, and is a truly viable alternative to what’s out there.

2024 BYD Seal Review: If You Could Buy One, You'd Probably Want To

BYD has made a car that’s good to drive, doesn’t cost the earth, looks great, and is a truly viable alternative to what’s out there.

insideevs.com

 

[eman623]

I think that the point has been missed.

China is an advanced manufacturing powerhouse.

The US has willingly ceded the manufacturing of the EV market to them for the profit of the oil companies

The Chinese have a well earned reputation for stealing IP, producing inferior products and using predatory business practices to market their crap.

The Japanese have a will earned reputation for producing high quality products.

And Tesla sold a million plus cars last year despite being shut out of the Chinese market

 

[Jezcoe]

The Chinese have a well earned reputation for stealing IP, producing inferior products and using predatory business practices to market their crap.

That has no bearing on what I am saying.

The Japanese have a will earned reputation for producing high quality products.

Not always. And that’s the point

And Tesla sold a million plus cars last year despite being shut out of the Chinese market

BYD sold over 4 million cars last year and that is despite being shut out of the US market.

 

[eman623]

Just bought a Volkswagen ID.4. Cheaper, nicer looking and best of all, not a Tesla.

Let TDS guide your car buying choices. Let me know how that works out.

 

[Michael Cole]

Your argument fails

I didn't make an argument. That was you. Your argument was aesthetics. BYD doesn't have aesthetics. That's you, not me. I didn't make an argument. You did. You're wrong.

Clear enough?

if you think a $160,000 Chinese EV - only 88 of which have actually been made in the last two years - is going to storm the European or American market.

 

[eman623]

That has no bearing on what I am saying.

Not always. And that’s the point

China has had 30 years to improve. Still waiting.

BYD sold over 4 million cars last year and that is despite being shut out of the US market.

China is a bigger market than America.

 

[Jezcoe]

China has had 30 years to improve. Still waiting.

BYD is making cars that people are buying.

China is a bigger market than America.

That is global sales.

 

[eman623]

BYD is making cars that people are buying.

Mostly People in China where you don't get an alternate.

That is global sales.

The vast majority of which are in China. They sell maybe 150k in Europe and zero in the US

 

[j brown's body]

Musk has done more to make EVs a real thing than any other person on the planet. Not sure if that's worth a trillion, but if I was going to buy an EV, I'd start at the Tesla dealership.

I would suspect he's already been compensated for that.

 

[Visbek]

BYD and other recent Chinese EVs are getting high marks from reviewers.

Chinese EV makers are good enough that they are kicking Tesla's teeth in.

They're all competing fiercely for the top spot, so they are constantly innovating and slashing prices to the bone. Tesla's fleet is are aging, and they charge top dollar.

BYD's most affordable car: 69,800 yuan
Tesla's most affordable car: 231,000 yuan

For the cost of activating the license of Tesla's mediocre semi-autonomous function, you can buy an entire BYD. With better self-driving capabilities.

While Chinese cars are basically unknown in the US, it's not a new industry anymore. They're pretty mature. If it wasn't for punishing tariffs, they'd be dominating the US market right now.

 

[eman623]

I would suspect he's already been compensated for that.

I'm sure Musk will be most interested to know how much compensation you think he deserves.

 

[Allan]

Chinese EV makers are good enough that they are kicking Tesla's teeth in.

Everyone is kicking Tesla’s teeth in. The global market for EVs is skyrocketing and Elmo has messed up so badly that Tesla’s sales are declining.

Chinese vehicles, like the earliest Japanese exports, were pretty bad. Not any more.

Besides the Chinese Tesla has to compete against all the legacy western automobile manufacturers. The companies that actually know how to screw stuff together.

 

[bullseyelqcs]

Let TDS guide your car buying choices. Let me know how that works out.

My decision had nothing to do with TDS and everything to do with price, reliability and aesthetics.

 

[ElChupacabra]

You mean like every other startup automaker? Tesla built the EV market pretty much single handedly.

That's cool, and other cellphone companies built the mobile phone market but where are Blackberry and Motorola now compared to iPhone and Galaxy smartphones?

The problem with Tesla is they didn't bother developing a more affordable EV and BYD filled that gap and are now building nicer ones comparable to Tesla model lines as well as building charging infrastructure in Europe as well. This has allowed them to gain substantial market growth and beat Tesla after Musk decided to piss on his brand.

 

[Craig234]

The one saving grace here is that the milestones are utterly laughable. He'd have to double Tesla's market cap; sell another 4.5 million cars, at a time when sales are tanking; sell one million Optimus robots, when they're still vaporware; sell 1 million robotaxis, which are also still vaporware; and increase earnings from $16 billion to $400 billion, again at a time when sales are cratering.

But does he still get a lot if they aren't met?

 

[Metric Mouse]

Yeah. That doesn’t mean that they are terrible vehicles.

BYD cars are well reviewed and well liked cars.

They are going to be the EV that the world is going to use… not Tesla.

It didn’t have to be that way. The US made a decision to not pursue what the world wants because it would have cut into the oil company’s bottom line.

Are Chinese cars, of any type, taking over the market in the US? Or Canada. In Germany?

Seems not the whole world is dependent upon Chinese cars, even as their EV market is the largest.

But of all non Chinese companies in the entire world, Tesla is the single non Chinese company that has a serious footprint in China.

So there's that.