REO SpeedDealer
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I'm sorry that I'm not going to go back in the thread some 30+ pages to show the 3 relevant indicators of the REAL numbers...
A) The panoramic shot shows at least 250k (about 2and a half stadiums worth of people)
b) The time delay video from the rooftop... this shows a stream of people in a tight crowd from sidewalk to sidewalk that progressed out over at least 6-8 city blocks. I could place that in the 600-700kjust with how consistently thick the crowd of people is through the whole procession.
c) The tendancy for people to want to exaggerate / reduce numbers for whatever reasons, meaning that those that claim the highest numbers will tend to be exagerating for their benefit... to say it was 60-70thousand was just a laughably small estimate, that had to only been counting people in the area of the stage, since that seemed about the capacity of that area... but then you take that area and see that it was about a tenth of the area that was occupied.
So, I would go to a max of about 800k to account for places that weren't clearly shown because of angles, trees, and other obstructions. European media was saying in the 1.5 million, probably by asking the police their estimates... which actually would put media and organizaer estimates with a .5 discrepency... that almost makes me think the REAL number was between 1.25 - 1.75 million people... but I didn't count it like that, so I'm going based on the list of things.
Well I'm glad to hear that you're such an expert at determining crowd size from simply looking at photos. Or maybe it's telepathy? Did you just sense "the vibes" of all those millions of people:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:?
Well I'm glad to hear that you're such an expert at determining crowd size from simply looking at photos. Or maybe it's telepathy? Did you just sense "the vibes" of all those millions of people:mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:?
Ex : an article I saw about a woman that died of swine flue... read the first two paragraphs and the woman died from deadly swine flu... read the last two paragraphs and the woman suffered respiratory illness, had been in and out of hospitals for years and had a previously weakened immune system (aka she died while infected with swine flu but not necessarily because of swine flu)
In my opinion, conservatives made two mistakes with this march. The first was in their hugely exaggerated number claims, which turned the story from the rally itself, and into an argument about numbers that makes them look bad.
The second was that the organizers and protesters did not quickly and loudly condemn the more radical elements of the protest. This again shifted the topic away from the point of the rally and onto a topic where they simply will not look good.
While from a political standpoint I am glad they made these mistakes, on a more personal level I feel bad for the tens to hundreds of thousands of demonstrators who where exercising their rights in this country to protest and demonstrate whose message was lost due to the actions of the radical elements and poor leadership by the organizers.
If you believe that it was 60-70k of people... I'm sorry, but you clearly didn't see the whole picture.
The 60-70k estimate is from the DC fire dept....who have at least some expertise at this sort of thing. No offense, but I tend to trust their opinion over yours or Glenn Beck's in a matter such as this.
Umm your wrong there Hazlnut as I have stated the NPS has stated this was the largest March in DC History so are you calling the NPS Liers.
Ya, I probably could have taken another angle... not that it matters, since I could have just explained how the end result of 'the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer' will end up with the 1% with all the ressources and the other 99% either dead or dependant on the 1%, and you'd have still called it 'paranoid'...
I could have went and dug out all sorts of sources, linked them, bill numbers, historical precedences where similar laws had been enacted allowing a dictator to take control, etc, etc... and you would have said 'no... I don't care about facts and figures, history and politics... you're just paranoid.' (and since I support the majority of those views that you would have found at the DC protest, you might have just added that I was racist too...
Which is funny... think about it :
taxes too high?? That's racist
Don't want socialized health care?? It's cause you're racist
Don't want to give up your guns ?? You must just not like black people.
Don't like having to walk through a naked body scanner at the airport?? R to the 'acist'
Tell me though, why SHOULD I care what you think of me when I'm just trying to present information (which if you showed any inclination of actually looking into, I might have made the effort to source) and you're just trying to say that anyone that thinks that way is 'paranoid'??
cheers
When did I say I was an expert?? If anything I said that I was NOT an expert... it doesn't always take an expert to have common sense...
The common sense that the stream of people was probably around 40-50 people across... it doesn't take many rows deep to get 1000 people... and you can get a feel for the types of numbers watching the flow of people just going on for blocks and blocks... and that's only a few viewpoints...
If you believe that it was 60-70k of people... I'm sorry, but you clearly didn't see the whole picture.
Except you can see that they only fill up about 1/4 of the mall. When completely full, the mall holds approx. 240k. Hmmmmm.... 1/4 of 240 is what?
60K.
The people claiming that there were much more than that are simply desperate to try to make their cause seem larger than it was...as a result they are making themselves and their "cause" look even more silly and irrelevant.
Classic....the sequel.
America....^This is the voice of the right-wing opposition. See how reasonable and rational it is?
What about the pictures??
There were obviously hundreds of thousands of people there, I would guess a conservative estimate would be about 200 thousand, to 300.
Apparently not so obvious to those with any actual experience estimating crowd size. Nice to know there are so many armchair authorities around though.
The pictures are irrelevant....in the digital age the manipulation of photographs is entirely too easy and likely (not to mention the fact that the event organizers have already been busted trying to pass off a fake photo).
What is your problem with the DC fire dept. estimate? Do you think they have an agenda?
In spite of the name, factcheck isn't the most reliable source... better then say wikkipedia, but it still has a bias.
It's a little shallow by the New Left to score points on whether it was "700,000 instead of a cool 1 Million" when indeed, it was their grand standing and thinly veiled insinuations that obliterated the National Park Service's resolve to measure the events. That last objective measurement of 'Marches on Washington' burned during their PR campaign to make the Million Man March become something more than another symbol of aborted political activism.
I strongly suspect you would find that most right wingers where either indifferent or not happy with the "million Man March". Further, I strongly suspect that hardly any of us on the left thought that a lawsuit against the NPS was a good thing. You are making generalities that are not accurate, and then trying to blame us on the left that we only have one official source for the crowd size. Very disingenuous of you.
I was on the Mall during some AIDS thing and the radio stations were reporting a crowd of half a million. It wasn't even crowded. I think the Mall can hold well over a million. I was in Battery Park during the bicentennial and that crowd was estimated at a million. Battery Park is just a small fraction of the size of the Mall. These are all just estimates and I'm not claiming to know for sure but your estimate seems waaaaay off.Except you can see that they only fill up about 1/4 of the mall. When completely full, the mall holds approx. 240k. Hmmmmm.... 1/4 of 240 is what?
60K.
The people claiming that there were much more than that are simply desperate to try to make their cause seem larger than it was...as a result they are making themselves and their "cause" look even more silly and irrelevant.
I'm just ignoring every argument that finds traction in some sort of vast right-wing plot. Defending the National Park Service, calling Jesse Jackson or Farrakhan for their inflammatory remarks against the tried-and-true judicator of census taking at the events is hardly the same as having issues with the march itself. Any more statements that continue with that train of thought will be ignored on principle.
Regardless of what you have mind-read in your fellow New Leftists, a trait reserved only for Jimmy Carter, the fact remains that if he had no popular support or better yet, a responsible selection of people who objected to what he was saying the NPS would still be here today. A circle of 'yes-men' would have prevented the entire situation - how is that not accurate?
I leave it up to the public record to try and decided how "disingenuous" it is to have only one source, because the New Left ran the other out of business. I thought you guys were against monopolies?
Take a close look at your own picture link dude.
Are you seriously going to try to argue that they are comparable? :doh
Even assuming that they by some chance were. When the mall is COMPLETELY filled it holds 240,000.
Why are you guys so desperately trying to inflate your numbers. It is making the cause look rather silly.
So you bring up an issue, and are going to ignore any argument against what you proclaimed to be true. Oh, well done sir, well done!
WHy is it when I say what I believe to be true it is mindreading, but when you do it, it is supposed to matter? I would tend to think that since I am an actual part of the left, I might know a bit more about what we think than you do, especially since your ignorance on us is pretty clear.
Again, "the New Left" did not such thing. One organization made a foolish lawsuit, and congress decided to keep similar controversies from happening. What you are doing is similar if I said that Republicans have fidelity troubles because a couple republican congressmen have been caught at affairs.
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