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Ted Cruz going on Obamacare


I understand this, and accept it, but it seems like the hysteria surrounding this uses the meaning we all infer, again, I refer to being "coerced" to pay taxes.
 
social programs=/= socialism.

all those countries you are going bananas over are capitalist countries... period.

I already state that I accept a modern, fully socialist state will not occur for some time that is in a well developed country. The programs are aligned to socialist ideas, capitalism there isn't always a bad thing, I accept the current system, they do it better, obviously.
 
I'm not new to any of this, nor am I a kid... you're not bringing me anything i haven't see nor read before.

Just showing how successful these socialist minded policies are. eace
 
Way more then the danes who have socialist minded policies, Germany, canada, denmark, finland, netherlands, ireland, new zealand, belgium, england, costa rica, heck, most of europe has socialist minded policies. Oh yes, because the free market was doing fantastic for everyone before any regulation. :roll:
 

There is no question needing an answer. If you need health insurance, ACA is the only game in town. ACA has eliminated all options other than ACA approved policies (be they created by your employer or bought through an exchange or directly from an insurer). When the state eliminates all options other than their options, you either go without insurance for your wife and kids or you make the best of a crappy program.

But, I guess, he looks 'bad' because he played by the rules and didn't sacrifice his family to avoid the jeering of of those who made the rules.
 
I sleep fine.. i actually know the meaning of the words "mandate" and "force"... though i can understand why an authoritarian socialist would be hesitant to talk bad about govt. force.

I'm a democratic socialist, how am I authoritarian? The mandate still doesn't make you get the plan, heck, tons are exempt, read the article I've sent you, also, the fine is not forcing anyone, I wouldn't be so concerned if words like this didn't cause mass hysteria.
 
Just showing how successful these socialist minded policies are. eace

they are social policies, not socialist policies.... they are not synonyms.

all brought to people through capitalism... every bit of it.... so us capitalists thank you for supporting the greatest economic system the earth has ever seen
 

Ok, I agree, but the way it is being used causes paranoia, and read up on the number of people getting exemptions, and the fines that scale based on income, no where are you forced to get on it, you may have to pay a fine, but that's completely different from forcing as it is used in its primary sense.
 
they are social policies, not socialist policies.... they are not synonyms.

all brought to people through capitalism... every bit of it.... so us capitalists thank you for supporting the greatest economic system the earth has ever seen

Really? Universal healthcare is government run healthcare that benefits everyone that is not privatized, that seems "socialist" to me. I agree capitalism brings forth these programs, as there has never been good bearing for true socialism to rise up in a well developed country, so I accept that capitalism exists, and contributes. I've already said this.
 
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He is a graduate of Princeton and Harvard (juris Doctor), honors in both, chief editor of the Harvard Law Review. USA National Debate and Speech Champion. Law Clerk for the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court. Entered a race for US Senate at 3% in the polls and won.

You may intensely disagree with him, but I suspect he is vastly more intelligent than you and I. You could tell us YOUR educational and professional resume to prove my suspicious inaccurate.
 

the only one hysterical here is you... and I don't really care what the forbes article says.
it's an individual mandate, not an individual suggestion... the mandate is an official order, sanctioned and enforced by the federal government... end of story.

authoritarianism is inherent to the collectivists ideologies...well, that's pertaining to practical application, not the Utopian bull**** rhetoric collectivists use to sell their snake oil.
 

It still doesn't force you to get the plan, you can get exemptions or pay a fine, that is not relevant to forcing someone to get the plan. and I'm talking about the definition being used by those who rally and say it's forcing them in the context of what people attribute forcing to, not the other meanings. I won't even bother addressing the other points, want me to talk about the rhetoric of capitalism by citing one of my inspirational figures? You claim what I believe is snake oil, I can say the same for your rampant support of capitalism as the best system. We will both never agree, that is obvious, but let's not resort to such nonsense.
 

he's highly educated in his filed, that much i'll certainly give him... but he's a political idiot who marginalizes himself with his rhetoric and "take no prisoners" attitude.
I expect such things from activists, talking heads, and blowhards...not from elected officials who should be acting like adults with a job to perform.

as for resume, we are in different worlds ( private sector versus public sector)... I'm nothing in his world, and he's nothing in mine.
 

i've given my definitions already.. .they are supported by the dictionary.
be wary of ruling out a term based on a single definition that does not apply.... as words have more than one definition, others may indeed apply( as is the case with the term "force")

when there is an official government order with or without a penalty... there is force... end of story.

and no, it's not rhetoric or snake oil to claim capitalism is the best economic system the earth has ever seen.. it's objective fact.
Socialism cannot offer the potential capitalism actually lives up to... it's an inherently constrained system resulting in mediocrity at best.
 

Sure it is :roll: Like I said, not worth us both going back and forth. I already have stated it is the best system currently in existence and being utilized as of right now.
 

universal healthcare can be socialist, depending on it's structure... but as the socialized aspect of universal healthcare is primarily in the delivery of healthcare, you'd be hard pressed to categorize it as "production".
every bit of the infrastructure in the universal healthcare system in developed countries in capitalist in nature, though the delivery and funding are public and can be construed as socialist in a loose sense of the term.
 

The delivery and funding are socialist in nature, and I've already attested to capitalism as a supporting factor.
 
The delivery and funding are socialist in nature, and I've already attested to capitalism as a supporting factor.

that's kinda sorta what i said... though the term "socialist" must be used in a very loose sense to be accurate.

capitalism isn't a "supporting factor"... it's the reason the programs exist and succeed.
 
that's kinda sorta what i said... though the term "socialist" must be used in a very loose sense to be accurate.

capitalism isn't a "supporting factor"... it's the reason the programs exist and succeed.

Yes, a supporting factor, and the main reason, I agree, I've already said multiple times capitalism is the current system being used, and the one working as of now.
Socialism doesn't need to be used loosely, universal healthcare is socialist in it's very application. I still do not agree with capitalism fundamentally, as you do not agree with socialism.
 
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You're not one for details are you ?

You just make these generic replies without substance.
 
You're not one for details are you ?

You just make these generic replies without substance.

They have plenty of substance when you cherry pick select countries and ignore all of the others. Tell me these countries are doing bad with socialist policies :roll: I also forgot to add Britain.
 
They have plenty of substance when you cherry pick select countries and ignore all of the others. Tell me these countries are doing bad with socialist policies :roll: I also forgot to add Britain.

So I'm not allowed to bring up ACTUAL Socialist failures because that would be " cherry picking " ?

Sorry, I dont work like that. I'm not restricted by the confines of a ideology that doesnt allow the mentioning of the many fallacies of Socialism.

I can be honest, post facts and if it offends you then maybe you should re-evaluate your loyalty to a destructive and twisted world view.

Just a suggestion.

And I offered up a very detailed explanation of just how destructive Government intervention is.

You offered up lazy generic talking points.
 

You're of course allowed! But when the successes of socialist policies override the few failures, it isn't a good argument against it. Here you go: Occupy was right: capitalism has failed the world | Books | The Guardian Some good reading to show how capitalism is a failure, even though I'll even agree it is working, for the wealthy :lamo
I'm not restricted to a confine, I appreciate your inquiry.
I don't dispute your facts, they show that every system has flaws, which I agree with.
I don't like Chavez, Venezuela has failed horribly, I agree.
I am not necessarily against the free market, as realistically, socialism in it's true form will never exist in my lifetime in a country able to support it. I support a free market with regulations and socialist policies, as that's realistic although I'd love socialism.
Government intervention may not be beneficial all the time, but for the majority of cases, yes, it is. Can you imagine an unregulated free market? Come on now, just look at Americas history. You say the 2008 financial crisis was caused by government intervention, any evidence to back this up apart from your opinion? You want to talk dangers of capitalism and discussion on capitalism?
http://www.theguardian.com/books/20...-failed-world-french-economist-thomas-piketty
I agree that government intervention can be bad, but it has done more good then bad.
 
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there are quite few forms of universal healthcare... not all are socialist in nature.. .some are far from socialist (such as single payer health insurance)

at this time in human history, I believe socialism to be unnecessary and ultimately a destructive force( in most cases)..... maybe in the future, as we trend out of human labor based production, Socialism might become necessary and even constructive. ( think in terms of near total automation, and such).
 
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