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PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHERS. WAITING PERIOD FOR PERMANENT STATUS. DISMISSAL INITIATIVE STATUTE.
Increases probationary period for public school teachers from two to five years. Modifies the process by which school boards can dismiss a teaching employee who receives two consecutive unsatisfactory performance evaluations.
http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/bp_nov05/voter_info_pdf/entire74.pdf
TimmyBoy said:One of the reasons they have tenure is prevent political pressures from getting a teacher fired, but the big problem with that is allowing ineffective teachers to stay. I think some compromise should be worked out to prevent political pressures from getting a teacher fired and yet on the same token, a lazy, ineffective teacher can be fired.
Scarecrow Akhbar said:So...what sort of political and controversial things are they teaching in the first grade, anyhow?
Teachers all the way up through high school aren't supposed to be controversial. They're supposed to teach the basics. It was recently reported that 20% of California high school seniors failed a comprehensive exam that was geared to the eighth grade level. Those students won't be getting diplomas.
Why isn't the exam geared for 12th grade levels of competency? Shouldn't the state save 30% of it's budget by giving the 8th graders diplomas and casting them loose?
And one of the reasons why the education is so bad in this state is the union mandated stupid tenure.
TimmyBoy said:Scarecrow, when you write software designed to build nuclear weapons that can blow whole countries clean from the map, you can come talk to me about education.
Hoot said:The problem is we do not have as many experienced teachers as we once had...this was an article in today's paper, nor do we have as many men teaching as we once had, nor do we have anything close to equality as far as race...I think the article stated that 35-40% of school children are of non-caucasian races, yet non-caucasian teachers make up less then 5% of teaching professionals.
Schools believe they can save money by hiring young, inexperienced teachers, for less pay, and our children suffer as a result.
Tenure may have its problems, but its just about the only way we can assure our children are being taught by teachers who have at least 5 years or more of teaching experience.
You want a revolving door on teachers? Fine...our children will pay the ultimate price.
Hoot said:The problem is we do not have as many experienced teachers as we once had...this was an article in today's paper, nor do we have as many men teaching as we once had, nor do we have anything close to equality as far as race...I think the article stated that 35-40% of school children are of non-caucasian races, yet non-caucasian teachers make up less then 5% of teaching professionals.
Schools believe they can save money by hiring young, inexperienced teachers, for less pay, and our children suffer as a result.
Tenure may have its problems, but its just about the only way we can assure our children are being taught by teachers who have at least 5 years or more of teaching experience.
You want a revolving door on teachers? Fine...our children will pay the ultimate price.
debate_junkie said:Our children are already paying the ultimate price. Teacher's are no longer JUST teachers anymore. Most of our schools are being held hostage by kids who's parent's don't give a damn, and the school administration is being forced, in most cases, to dole out the education and the discipline. Look at the state of our school districts, WE the taxpayers are funding breakfast, we're funding before and after school programs, we're also funding metal detectors, drug sniffing dogs and police presence in our schools.
debate_junkie said:The quality of teachers is decreasing because teacher's are fearing their own safety. They don't WANT to teach in an environment that makes learning impossible. They don't WANT to worry which of their students has a weapon today. They don't WANT to be caught in the crossfire of another Columbine, and I don't blame them. We're blaming teachers and tenure for the mess within our schools, how about we start blaming parents? Why should we the taxpayer pay for a school for kids who refuse to go? Why aren't parent's held more responsible for that? Maybe then there wouldn't be such a truancy problem.
debate_junkie said:This notion that the school HAS to be a second guardian to our kids is f-ing ridiculous. I am active in my kids schooling... and I do work. My husband, as much as he hates it, works third shift.. why? So someone is ALWAYS here with the kids, and so someone is always available if a call comes home from the school. My kids know without a shadow of a doubt, if they don't tote the straight and narrow in school, there is NOTHING the school could do to them that would be worse than what they would get at home.
debate_junkie said:Parent's need to be the FIRST responsibility in how their kids conduct themselves in school. then, maybe then, we'll start attracting teachers who can actually teach, and not play referee all damn day.
The Mark said:Indeed. The parents should be responsible. And I just had a thought. Take the ID trial as an example. IMO, it is not the parents responsibility to change what the school teaches, but to teach their child what they want him/her to believe. I mean, that is what has been going on for years! If some parent wanted to have their child believe in ID or the like, they would take them aside at home after school and explain the opposing view.
DeeJayH said:just how does tenure assure quality experienced teachers?
Hoot said:I never said it did. But tenure does protect teachers from unfair discrimination..for instance..if they are involved in union activities, and tenure also protects the best and brightest of teachers, who may just decide to stay in teaching if they know their job is secure.
Of course, with tenure, you're going to have some mediocre teachers slip through the cracks, but any administration can fire a teacher if the evidence of wrongdoing is clear and concrete. And as I already said, tenure protects teachers from being fired for unjust reasons simply because the administraton wants cheap labor in the form of new teachers.
How many professionals would want to consider a career in teaching if they knew their job was constantly at risk?
As far as parents...that's a whole 'nother topic...totally and completely unrelated to a discussion about tenure.
debate_junkie said:It's funny you mention that. I work in downtown Harrisburg, not far from the Federal Court house in which that ID trial is going on. While, I don't understand all the logistics of the case, as I've been too busy with other relevant news than to keep up with the Dover School District, it appears to me the parents are somewhat grounded in their thinking. From what I understand, the teaching of ID is intended to say that the gaps in which evolution is "faulty" are easily explained by a touch of a "higher power".
While evolution is but a theory, proven only in bits by scientific fact, I, personally, could not approve the teaching of something that is not based on fact, but only on the belief of some. Science, we teach our children, is factual. Until then, we call it theories, that are based on idea's or belief's unproven. There is nothing to even remotely prove a "higher power" without inserting biblical reference, and well... the line is crossed. So that's my take on ID.. I think the school district has gone a bit far by FORCING it to be done in biology class. Had they offered it as an elective, giving students the option of taking... they could have avoided this entirely.
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