• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

talking about the Swastika

R

Rumpelstil

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
43,120
Reaction score
9,316
Location
Schwarzwald = Black Forest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I noticed on TV that the swastika is sometimes shown in the US and other countries

in Germany this would be illegal

and the very word is nearly unknown. it is Hakenkreuz in German

i though of this topic because this week somebody had smeared the swastika on a ballot paper in the Baden.Württemberg Parliament .... and that caused a Skandal
 
I almost never see it except at extreme right wing protests. But it's not limited to right wing protests. In 2023 a man at a pro Palestinian rally at our Parliament had a sign with a swastika.

The message of the sign was Swastika = Israel.

The sign was strongly denounced by all political parties.
 
Rumpel said:
I noticed on TV that the swastika is sometimes shown in the US and other countries

in Germany this would be illegal

and the very word is nearly unknown. it is Hakenkreuz in German

i though of this topic because this week somebody had smeared the swastika on a ballot paper in the Baden.Württemberg Parliament .... and that caused a Skandal
Click to expand...
Even thought I was born right after WWII, it means nothing to me. Watched way too many WWII movies for it to mean anything to me. Kind of like the old TV westerns, white hat, good guy, black hat, bad guy. But I also would like to point out that in Buddhism, the Swastika represents the footprint of Buddha. The swastika is a symbol of good fortune and well-being. It represents the path to enlightenment. You’ll find the swastika adorning many Buddhist and Hindu temples.

So once again, a symbol can mean different things to different people. A concept in the west that is impossible for them to understand.
 
Rumpel said:
what does it mean in this case?
Click to expand...
You reacted before I finished editing my previous comment. When I realized this was a non-political forum, and not sure why you posted THIS thread here when discussing a nazi flag is bound to be political.
 
NJBob said:
It’s an ancient symbol which originally was a sign of good fortune.
Click to expand...
Also, symbolizing wellbeing, good health, good luck prosperity along with also being a sacred symbol in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. Going way back in history, the swastika has appeared on artifacts from ancient Egypt, Troy, China, and India, and even in synagogues in ancient Israel. Even long before Europeans set foot in the Americas, Some Native American tribes, like the Navajo, used the symbol as well, sometimes calling it "whirling logs".

It's like I said previously, in the west they can’t understand the concept of symbols meaning different things to different people.
 
I was in India many years ago- and In Mumbai noticed all the houses had a swastika on top of them (except they were reversed). I asked what that was all about, and they said it was a symbol of blessing and prosperity in Hinduism.

I later learned that it’s a sacred symbol in not just Hinduism, but all the whole family of Indo-Aryan religions- including Zoroastrianism, which was the religion of the ancient Persian empire. Today, Zoroastrianism exists in large numbers only in India.

So what’s the connection to the Third Reich? It turns out Hitler really wanted to give his movement a mysterious, mystical, esoteric flavor. That was part its attraction to many young men: it made them feel like they were joining this ancient secret mysterious esoteric movement - something much bigger than themselves- something many young men are attracted to.

So why pick the Swastika? He had always talked about how Germans were the origin of all civilization and cultural advancements in history- that was the Nazi propaganda. But it was hard to point to any ancient grand civilization starting in Germany. They were descendants of a bunch of Vikings, famous mostly for their ruthless killing and looting. So he created this myth that the Germans were descendants of the “Aryans”- the tribe which had created the grand civilizations of Persian empire in the Middle East and brought Hinduism to India.

Archeological and historical evidence shows these “Aryan” tribes probably originated somewhere in what’s now the central Asian steppes-modern day Kazakhstan- and migrated south due to increasingly colder climates, overgrazing of their cattle, and invasions from proto-Turkic nomads in the area.

The word “Iran” actually comes from the word “Aryan”- they were the only ancient civilization which explicitly identified themselves as Aryan. The word Aryan means “noble ones”.

By there is no evidence these tribes ever went to Europe (maybe a few went to Greece). But since that link to grand old civilizations was part of Nazi propaganda, Hitler adapted this ancient Indo-Aryan symbol of the Swastika, and created the story that the Germans were the only pure remaining branch of this ancient tribe.

It was all made-up propaganda.
 
Last edited:
Rumpel said:
I noticed on TV that the swastika is sometimes shown in the US and other countries

in Germany this would be illegal

and the very word is nearly unknown. it is Hakenkreuz in German

i though of this topic because this week somebody had smeared the swastika on a ballot paper in the Baden.Württemberg Parliament .... and that caused a Skandal
Click to expand...
Didn't you start this same thread over on USMB?

The Swastika has multiple uses across multiple cultures across Europe, Asia, and the Americas. It is, after all, a very basic geometric design.

For instance, the 45th Infantry Division of the US Army had a patch with a Swastika on it until 1939, when they realized that probably wasn't a good look. But it was originally associated with Native American culture.
 
JoeB131 said:
Didn't you start this same thread over on USMB?

The Swastika has multiple uses across multiple cultures across Europe, Asia, and the Americas. It is, after all, a very basic geometric design.

For instance, the 45th Infantry Division of the US Army had a patch with a Swastika on it until 1939, when they realized that probably wasn't a good look. But it was originally associated with Native American culture.
Click to expand...
The Finnish Air Force used it as a marking on their planes before the Nazis took it as their symbol.
 
NJBob said:
The Finnish Air Force used it as a marking on their planes before the Nazis took it as their symbol.
Click to expand...

Damned Nazis ruined everything.

 
Rumpel said:
what do you feel when you see this sign? 😒😔
Click to expand...

In the end, the swastika and the hammer and sickle represent the same things: extreme collectivism, mass murder, slavery, and death.
 
aociswundumho said:
In the end, the swastika and the hammer and sickle represent the same things: extreme collectivism, mass murder, slavery, and death.
Click to expand...

Only to you. It’s still over most houses in India as a symbol of blessing and prosperity.

This is a good example of seeing yourself and your own history/culture at the center of the whole universe.

There is no “in the end”…
 
If I see it on the arm of some neo-nazi punk, I think you're a ******* idiot.

And if I see someone 'waving it around'' in protest of something that is a far cry from what the Nazis were and did, I think, you're a ******* idiot.
 
ataraxia said:
I was in India many years ago- and In Mumbai noticed all the houses had a swastika on top of them (except they were reversed). I asked what that was all about, and they said it was a symbol of blessing and prosperity in Hinduism.

I later learned that it’s a sacred symbol in not just Hinduism, but all the whole family of Indo-Aryan religions- including Zoroastrianism, which was the religion of the ancient Persian empire. Today, Zoroastrianism exists in large numbers only in India.

So what’s the connection to the Third Reich? It turns out Hitler really wanted to give his movement a mysterious, mystical, esoteric flavor. That was part its attraction to many young men: it made them feel like they were joining this ancient secret mysterious esoteric movement - something much bigger than themselves- something many young men are attracted to.

So why pick the Swastika? He had always talked about how Germans were the origin of all civilization and cultural advancements in history- that was the Nazi propaganda. But it was hard to point to any ancient grand civilization starting in Germany. They were descendants of a bunch of Vikings, famous mostly for their ruthless killing and looting. So he created this myth that the Germans were descendants of the “Aryans”- the tribe which had created the grand civilizations of Persian empire in the Middle East and brought Hinduism to India.

Archeological and historical evidence shows these “Aryan” tribes probably originated somewhere in what’s now the central Asian steppes-modern day Kazakhstan- and migrated south due to increasingly colder climates, overgrazing of their cattle, and invasions from proto-Turkic nomads in the area.

The word “Iran” actually comes from the word “Aryan”- they were the only ancient civilization which explicitly identified themselves as Aryan. The word Aryan means “noble ones”.

By there is no evidence these tribes ever went to Europe (maybe a few went to Greece). But since that link to grand old civilizations was part of Nazi propaganda, Hitler adapted this ancient Indo-Aryan symbol of the Swastika, and created the story that the Germans were the only pure remaining branch of this ancient tribe.

It was all made-up propaganda.
Click to expand...
Very well said. A short history lesson that was needed. Even today you’ll see the swastika adorning Buddhist temples of Southeast Asia. A good, holy symbol. Not the evil one associated with Hitler and the NAZI’s. The swastika has been associated with goodness for several thousand years, spoiled by the NZAI’s in the west.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom