Take the gloves off, or go home.

[Renae]

ISIS is fighting a war as it's spelled out in the Koran...ie: beheadings, crucifixions, slavery, etc.. So it's not like there are 'no rules' for ISIS...it's just that their rules date back to the 7th century and ours date from the 20th.

Yet you seem to be suggesting that the US should revert back to the 7th century as well...so that we're all playing by the same rules.

Just because ISIS believes the end times and Armageddon is upon us, doesn't mean that you have to believe it, too.

Is our approach working? No.
I am recommening win, not fight for years and get our people killed with stupid "rules of law and the moral high ground!" I want total victory, so this **** stops.

Maybe you like seeing American service members in body bags, I don't.

 

[Nilly]

Is our approach working? No.
I am recommening win, not fight for years and get our people killed with stupid "rules of law and the moral high ground!" I want total victory, so this **** stops.

Maybe you like seeing American service members in body bags, I don't.

Total victory isn't possible. We aren't fighting a state, we are fighting ideals. You can't eradicate terrorism any more than you can eradicate crime, both are impossible to stop in totality. What we can do is minimize the effects, and to be resilient against manifestations of each one.

Furthermore, the ideal that we are fighting against is actually fanned and aggravated by continued occupation and aggression against the countries where it exists. Firebombing the middle east is a surefire way to foster even more hatred towards the west, foster more terrorism, and in the long run leads to more Americans in body bags. The common factor behind 95% of suicide bombings between 1980 & 2003 was not religious fanatacism, it was a response to military occupation. Source.

"Suicide terrorists sought to compel American and French military forces to abandon Lebanon in 1983, Israeli forces to leave Lebanon in 1985, Israeli forces to quit the Gaza Strip and the West Bank in 1994 and 1995, the Sri Lankan government to create an independent Tamil state from 1990 on, and the Turkish government to grant autonomy to the Kurds in the late 1990s."

We are just now experiencing the blowback of 10 years of warring against an ideologue. It does not work. Lets not do it again.

 

[1750Texan]

Nothing, I'm just an asshole really that want's a crusade against muslims. /rollmyeyes

Go watch Patton, seriously, go watch the movie, you might MIGHT get what I'm trying to say.

maybe that is the problem you want to employ WWII tactics of war to an enemy that is no more distiguishable that the general population.

Do you think ISIS is still running around in their black pajamas with a big white I on the front?

 

[Fletch]

The dead and wounded "friendlies" might disagree.

And they would be wrong.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Is our approach working? No.
I am recommening win, not fight for years and get our people killed with stupid "rules of law and the moral high ground!" I want total victory, so this **** stops.

Maybe you like seeing American service members in body bags, I don't.

I did see my share. Too ****ing many of them. And all for the same reason as here.

Let's play war!

In the whole of the Vietnam war, the US never once changed tactics from the one they inherited from French. And a half million body bags came pouring home. Because the fighting man had his hands tied by his own army and by the politicians and meat heads who were calling the shots.

Now we have the same kind of limited engagement. And what is there to show for it? Three years ago the US was winding down, had pulled out of Iraq and was claiming progress with a 'surge' in Afghanistan. Today we have seven fronts including Iraq and the pentagon is still doing the same damned thing.

I don't know, were I fighting a war and heard the CIC of the enemy say "no boots on the ground" I'd party

What is being waged here is not war, but a massive public relations campaign

 

[Fletch]

maybe that is the problem you want to employ WWII tactics of war to an enemy that is no more distiguishable that the general population.

Do you think ISIS is still running around in their black pajamas with a big white I on the front?

No, but we know where their base in Syria is. There is no reason that the WWII tactic of flattening entire cities would fail with regard to ISIS. Rollout the B52's and the B1's and carpet bomb their strongholds.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Total victory isn't possible. We aren't fighting a state, we are fighting ideals. You can't eradicate terrorism any more than you can eradicate crime, both are impossible to stop in totality. What we can do is minimize the effects, and to be resilient against manifestations of each one.

Furthermore, the ideal that we are fighting against is actually fanned and aggravated by continued occupation and aggression against the countries where it exists. Firebombing the middle east is a surefire way to foster even more hatred towards the west, foster more terrorism, and in the long run leads to more Americans in body bags. The common factor behind 95% of suicide bombings between 1980 & 2003 was not religious fanatacism, it was a response to military occupation. Source.

"Suicide terrorists sought to compel American and French military forces to abandon Lebanon in 1983, Israeli forces to leave Lebanon in 1985, Israeli forces to quit the Gaza Strip and the West Bank in 1994 and 1995, the Sri Lankan government to create an independent Tamil state from 1990 on, and the Turkish government to grant autonomy to the Kurds in the late 1990s."

We are just now experiencing the blowback of 10 years of warring against an ideologue. It does not work. Lets not do it again.

You just lost the war.

Surrender Dorothy and kick that little dog!

 

[Nilly]

You just lost the war.

Surrender Dorothy and kick that little dog!

You grossly misunderstand our enemy.

 

[Fearandloathing]

You grossly misunderstand our enemy.

Oh!


I love to hear from internet "experts"

 

[Nilly]

Oh!

I love to hear from internet "experts"

I don't claim to be an expert, however if you read my post you'd see that the conclusions I come to draw in part from actual 'experts' and empirical data. Firebombing the cr*p out of M.E. is the emotional solution, not the sensible one.

I linked to the paper in my post but here it is again:
http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...ge=online&aid=173126&fileId=S000305540300073X

 

[Renae]

I don't claim to be an expert, however if you read my post you'd see that the conclusions I come to draw in part from actual 'experts' and empirical data. Firebombing the cr*p out of M.E. is the emotional solution, not the sensible one.

I linked to the paper in my post but here it is again:
Cambridge Journals Online - American Political Science Review - Abstract - The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism

Letsl us guess we should airdrop jobs to them? lol

 

[Nilly]

Letsl us guess we should airdrop jobs to them? lol

You're as bad at guessing as you are proposing solutions to complex sociopolitical issues. Take a break.

 

[Renae]

You're as bad at guessing as you are proposing solutions to complex sociopolitical issues. Take a break.

You say we cannot defeat USIS militarily. I say you are wrong, we must. the consequences of failure will be dire

 

[Fearandloathing]

Letsl us guess we should airdrop jobs to them? lol

Now there's the ticket....

No muss, no fuss, just drop and go and let them fight over them.....

 

[Fearandloathing]

You say we cannot defeat USIS militarily. I say you are wrong, we must. the consequences of failure will be dire

I have read a good deal of the years leading up to WW2. In the US, the history is more focused on the depression, and those who A) supported Hitler and the US joining his side and B) the ones saying "We can't stop it" have long been forgotten in the Hollywood re-write of history.

Once Hitler rolled into Poland like a knife through butter, there were even more who said "we cannot defeat him"....

Then the Japanese awakened the real America who, having lost two out of three ships in the Pacific weeks later bombed Tokyo in a one way mission simply to tell the enemy "we're coming...."

No idea can be defeated? Bull****.

 

[Oozlefinch]

I have read a good deal of the years leading up to WW2. In the US, the history is more focused on the depression, and those who A) supported Hitler and the US joining his side and B) the ones saying "We can't stop it" have long been forgotten in the Hollywood re-write of history.

Once Hitler rolled into Poland like a knife through butter, there were even more who said "we cannot defeat him"....

Then the Japanese awakened the real America who, having lost two out of three ships in the Pacific weeks later bombed Tokyo in a one way mission simply to tell the enemy "we're coming...."

No idea can be defeated? Bull****.

ISIS can indeed be defeated, it all really depends on the resolve of those fighting them.

Are they willing to take the steps needed, pure and simple.

Yes, the Coalition could easily roll into the region and defeat them militarily. Probably have them defeated on the ground within a month. But then comes the problem, how to handle the peace afterwards.

Far to many would whine and cry over the next step, which is to put into place restrictions and re-educations to show the majority population the error of their way, and to brutally stomp down future versions of the same thing from popping up again.

That type of outcome has very often worked in the past. Confederate States of America, Nazi Germany, early Showa era Japan, such methods are effective. But the question is, how long until such efforts are simply ignored and pushed aside before they have an effect? Myself, I believe they would fail not because the methods fail, but because some socialscientists would say they are to brutal and we should instead give them flowers and try to understand what makes them act the way they do.

Myself, I have no interest in knowing what goes through the minds of people who slaughter civilians on the level of ISIS. Personally, the only thing I want to see going through their minds is a bullet.

 

[Glowpun]

The real problem with the war on ISIS and other terror groups is that we're hamstrung, hamstrung by rules of war that are only followed by one side.

I say **** the Geneva convention on the rules of war. ISIS doesn't give a rats ass, and uses that against us. AQ did the same thing in Iraq.

Carpet bomb thost bastards any where they are at, roll the tanks in and flatten the earth where they are.

Firebomb the **** out of them and if any ISIS/AQ thug so much as lifts a finger hammer them.

War is hell, but fighting a war "nicely" is just asking to lose.

Total war, or total fail. We've seen this since Vietnam with only the first gulf war being a total victory, and hell even the second in terms of military defeat of the initial enemy, the Iraqi forces.

When faced with an asymetrical combat situation, the rules should be tossed and tried and true "**** with us, we'll destroy you and everything around you" comes in to play.

How many US Soldiers die because of lawyer dictated ROE? That's how you lose good people and lose wars.

Tired of this hands tied ****, if we're going to put troops in harms way, cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war. Make our enemies think twice about thinking they can win.

Obama like his predecessors is not Putin. People in the old country consider the US to be a paper tiger. Look how the US was defeated in Viet Nam inspite of superior technology. The politicians in the US just simply are not capable of learning from history. US leaders are poor tacticians allowing politics to hinder military strategy. That is a sure fire recipe for disaster again and again.