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- Aug 28, 2008
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- Conservative
I have no problem with different paths, as long as the goals are clear and standards are met. We lived for a few years in a small town in Idaho, with mostly farmers on the school board, and an exjock as superintendent. Standards were low in academics, but high in sports...
Parental expectations, IMO, is the primary issue that frustrates good teachers. When the student CAN, but won't, and parents won't get involved, what can you do?
from Erod
That is a great story - thanks for sharing it. Its amazing how similar our lives were. But I did not go to my graduation for college since I knew I was going on to a Masters and it did not mean that much to me. No ring either.... but I did get a different kind of ring that same summer and treasure that.
btw - I do not consider myself liberal. I eschew labels. I do admit that many of my views are on the left side of what others would call a progressive. But I also take some conservative positions on some issues. I really do not like the idea that we are like butterflies with pins in us and there is some label underneath identifying us to the world. But thats just me.
I have found that in the majority of cases (certainly with exceptions) being intelligent goes a long way in helping you get "rich." Many "rich" people will tell you that education is one of the most important things.
I have no problem with different paths, as long as the goals are clear and standards are met.
You know how Jay Leno does that thing where he asks people on the streets to identify people in pictures, and they can Jessica Simpson, but not Joe Biden? While funny, it also makes my stomach sink.
I think the biggest issue is the lack of parenting within the home. My dad scared the crap out of us at home about our grades. You brought home a C, especially in something that required basic study discipline like history or health, and your next six weeks were going to be pure hell.
Nowdays, it seems most parents don't even care enough to look at a report card, and if their kid gets held back, they picket the school.
That sort of household culture works for certain children while other techniques work for others. For example one of my kids sees his intellect (which is formidable to the point where the county wants to skip him a few grades) as attached to his self esteem. This causes him to seek out new knowledge continually.
My other kid has realized that knowing stuff allows him to do more stuff (which is an amazing thing for a 6 yearold to figure out) and that it is his motivation.
Alternatively, I know families that have a culture like you describe and all it does is to serve to demotivate the children and stress them out.
I think the best method is an unspoken understanding within the family unit that knowing stuff is important as children emulate what we do, not what we say. Then, whatever conscious actions you layer on top of it can futher help with that or hinder it.
Perhaps I overstated. We had a loving father, but he just didn't tolerate laziness. I made him sound like a brute.
But I mean, how do you fail history if you put half an effort into it? That was his point. A lot of parents - a LOT of parents - simply dont give a rip.
from Utah Bill
Here is the real problem that does not make for a good four word slogan on a bumper sticker or can be adopted as a catch phrase by a politician: we have gotten caught up in the game of comparing the scores of American students on standardized tests to those of students from other nations on standardized tests. And when some American kids fall behind some foreign children, we panic and demand that American schools "measure up".
Go and study Japanese schools. I did. Japan has one school system. One. Every public school kid across Japan learns the same thing from the same curriculum at the same time in the same grade regardless of what public school they attend. This is true if they attend in Hiroshima or Tokyo, Okinawa or Sapporo. Teachers do not spend time on lesson plans or tests. All this is provided for by the central office in Tokyo. When it is time for standardized tests, the students tend to do well because everything on the curriculum and on the standardized tests have been dovetailed together seamlessly. That is also the rule in many other nations.
The opposite is the way we do things here in America. But we still want to compare test scores and cry when we come up short.
There is a price we pay for local control of local schools. We need to face that and we need to have a discussion if it is worth that price.
But you can't compare a tiny (land-mass wise) country with basically an indigenous poplulation to the multiple environments in America.
The school district in Laredo, Texas, is entirely different than in D.C. or Omaha or Mobile. The one-size-fits-all approach just dumbs it all down.
I laugh at the TAKS tests in Texas. In south Dallas, they complain that it's way too demanding and unfair, while my kids and their friends outside the city ace it like it's nothing. You should see how ridiculously easy the test is.
School shouldn't be run by the federal government. Communities know best what they're specific kids needs.
Absolutely it is, I don't want it to be moreso. Like I said...Pandora's Box.
I don't see where it is denied to anyone. It's there for the taking, if they really want it.
Our daughter, Bachelors in Economics, tells me I have an abundance of useless knowledge. Times change, I guess SOME or our knowledge no longer has value...:shock:
Speaking of the American Dream, I channel-surfed into a prog by that name this evening, to see an old black guy recalling his war service, how he fought in Europe, was captured and sent to Stalag Luft Three, the "Great Escape" POW camp. He remembered his surprise and pleasure at being treated as an equal by his captors, if not his comrades, and of returning to New York on a troopship after the war ended, and walked down the gangplank to be told "Whites to the right, niggers to the left!" and knowing he was home.
Yeah, those Nazis really knew how to treat minorities, didn't they?
Speaking of the American Dream, I channel-surfed into a prog by that name this evening, to see an old black guy recalling his war service, how he fought in Europe, was captured and sent to Stalag Luft Three, the "Great Escape" POW camp. He remembered his surprise and pleasure at being treated as an equal by his captors, if not his comrades, and of returning to New York on a troopship after the war ended, and walked down the gangplank to be told "Whites to the right, niggers to the left!" and knowing he was home.
from Utah Bill
We did the same with our two. Although I told them that they could go to any college within driving distance and we would pay the tuition and books and could live at home as long as they wanted to. We passed on the older family cars to them as their first car. We did tell that them that if they wanted to live away from home and go away to college, the board cost would be on them. Neither did so and both finished school without owing one penny to anybody for anything.
So how long did you spend in the service? How did that food compare to your mothers?
BUYING a house is overrated anyway. . . especially when you consider that most homes are never paid off. Gee: massive debt! What a dream (more like a nightmare).
I would, right now, prefer I didn't have my own home - an apartment or condo with a reasonable rate would be fabulous.The perks: maintenance isn't up *to you* - if you have a busy life it's perfect.
The "American Dream" is a house with a white picket fence and a two-car garage, two kids, and a quiet little neighborhood. It's just an age-old, Norman Rockwell-like expression. It's still there to be had.
Now we have massive divorce rates, complete absentee parenting, women having four kids with four different dudes, Bob and Jim trying to get hitched at First Baptist United and adopt little Billy, and all hopefully in the haze of legalized drugs.
Yep, the American Dream is different for different people.
True enough...but going back to the OP and Suze's comments (I actually like her BTW...she's a good speaker and very personable 'in person') I still believe the basics are VERY attainable.
Look...its just a matter of application and hard work. it doesnt happen overnight, but then...it never has. I guarantee you...we can take ANYONE with basic skills and an average IQ (and I mean ANYONE regardless of their current circumstances) and if they are willing to put in the work create for them a plan that in 4-5 years has them in a career that they like with benefits, retirment, and earning a livable wage.
Any way you look at it, and whatever is done to try and fix this country, there is one inescapable conclusion. The standard of living for most Americans is going to deteriorate. Our children will be worse off than we are, and their children will be worse off than our children are.
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