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Supreme Court legitimacy

Craig234

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The Supreme Court has always had tension where its power is linked to how people see its 'legitimacy'. There is tension where in a democracy where the people are supposed to rule, we create a small group who are appointed for life who have the power to overrule the government the people elect, to dictate rules for the country that the country might disagree with.

And sometimes that's exactly what it's supposed to do - such as in Brown v. Board of Education, where the country supported discrimination more while the court said no, the constitution requires less of it. Eisenhower said appointing Chief Justice Earl Warren - a Republican who had been such a popular politician he was nominee of Republicans AND Democrats for California governor - was his biggest mistake.

But that cuts both ways; if the court is corrupted, it's an isolated, protected group issuing rulings against the will of the people that aren't legitimate - and the legitimacy of the court comes in question, as it should.

The country has a decades-long project involving billions of dollars to, frankly, corrupt the courts. In the 1970's, corporate strategists identified the courts as a weak point in democracy, where putting the 'right people' in as judges and Justices could recreate the political rules in ways they couldn't through constitutional amendments and laws.

It was a two part plan, basically; one was to create an army of lawyers who would adopt their agenda, creating legal theories to benefit the wealthy, to make the country a plutocracy; the second was the political activity of getting them put on the courts. Both have been wildly successful.

I would suggest that while the country has 'sort of noticed', they've mostly gotten away with it; how many have listened to Sen. Whitehouses's exposes of the corruption? But recently, that's started to change.

One big event was the overturning of Roe v. Wade - a political act based on Republicans using the issue for votes since Reagan; the other is learning that in addition to the 'big' corruption of the Justices as dedicated to corrupt legal doctrines, there are issues suggesting personal corruption, or the possibility of it, as well. Not specific bribes, but inappropriate activities and money.

It seems to me the result - of this, and the 'Citizens United' ruling caught the public's attention as corrupt as well, and there was the court stealing the 2000 election for Bush - has been for the court to be at its lowest state of legitimacy in at least almost a century, since the 1930's.

I only have polling, from Gallup, on the public opinion going back to 1973, but it holds up over that time; here's the last 20 years or so:

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In the 1930's, the court was right-wing. It had come from a string of right-wing presidencies; the Chief Justice had been a Republican nominee for President. That ran smack into the political changes after the Great Depression when FDR was elected to 'save the country', and he tried to pass aggressive policies that were somewhat revolutionary in how the US was governed.

FDR's policies ran smack into that right-wing court, who struck them down over and over. It was harming FDR's policies enough that the only solution he was was to try to expand the court so he could appoint Justices - the same situation we're in now. But even then, as popular as he was otherwise, the country opposed his court expansion, and it didn't happen.

It seems we are getting to something of a big problem with the court's legitimacy - somewhat ironically, not for the right reasons, but secondary ones, but it's happening regardless. I'm not sure how it will be resolved, since Republicans have the power to protect the court, and are determined to do so. Perhaps it'll become more of an election issue, for the first time I remember, as it seemed to in 2022.

Unfortunately, we don't seem close to real reforms. The corruptions since Nixon are going strong. They're not stronger because Democrats appoint legitimate Justices and judges, but the corruption has firm control of the court with 6-3. But we'll see what effect this growing legitimacy problem has.
 
The supreme court seems to have the same kind of overall approval rating as the gop as a whole. Sixty percent against, forty percent for.
 
You can move back to the 1700’s with all your illogical Bernie talk.

You know nothing of the sort.

You being able to post should be a blessing.

Bernie bots unite. Free is the word of the day, always.

Jeez.
 
You can move back to the 1700’s with all your illogical Bernie talk.

You know nothing of the sort.

You being able to post should be a blessing.

Bernie bots unite. Free is the word of the day, always.

Jeez.
huh?
 
Whatever dude. I hope you get better

We should all hope for the same.

Getting better.

I agree.

It all starts at home.
 
On a much less important note, I'd think even liberals can tire of the Justices' 'camaraderie' routine, where the very opposed Justices portray some noble principles on the court by saying what good friends they are, like Ginsberg saying Scalia was a close personal friend. It seems designed to try to enhance the view of the court, but mocks the corruption. And it wasn't Ginsberg paying for Scalia's hunting trips.
 
It seems we are getting to something of a big problem with the court's legitimacy - somewhat ironically, not for the right reasons, but secondary ones, but it's happening regardless.
Ehh, what else is new?

When the court was tilted to center-left, Republicans fell all over themselves to attack the court's legitimacy. Now that it's hard right, leftists are the ones complaining.

That said, there are serious issues with the court's legitimacy, and only some of them are cared about for partisan reasons. For example, the SCOTUS has closely adhered to stare decisis for generations, and now that's getting thrown out the window, without any care for potential future consequences. In addition, the right wing spent decades proclaiming that originalism is the only valid method of interpreting the Constitution, and they're now throwing that overboard.

The hyper-partisan hypocrisy of Republican appointments are also a very serious issue. That isn't going to vanish into thin air.

On the non-partisan side, the conflicts of interest, lack of disclosures, and lack of accountability are very serious issues that are just starting to be exposed. Of course, since so far all of the offenders are on the right, Republican partisans will defend all those misdeeds to the bitter end. :mad:

What's the fix? Ultimately, the public is either not going to care (seems somewhat unlikely) and do nothing, or are going to get pissed off to the point where the legislature will make some serious changes. Either they'll set term limits, or enforce ethics rules.

I doubt we will see much open defiance -- e.g. New York State is not going to enforce a gun control law *cough* shot down by the SCOTUS any time soon. Ideologically, that kind of defiance is far more likely to come from the right than the left.
 
What's the fix? Ultimately, the public is either not going to care (seems somewhat unlikely) and do nothing, or are going to get pissed off to the point where the legislature will make some serious changes. Either they'll set term limits, or enforce ethics rules.

We don't really have one. The legislature can make limited changes that don't address the real issues, but they won't. I don't think they can remove lifetime appointments, that are in the constitution, and they wouldn't fix the problems. As I said, the only fix I'm seeing possible is if it becomes an election issue.
 
Sighhhhh. If only we could stack the court with Dem superlegislators instead of judges. WE should add 10 more judges so we can reach that nirvana. One can only dream!
 
We don't really have one. The legislature can make limited changes that don't address the real issues, but they won't.
They might, depending on how political winds blow. If respect for the court continues to crater, and especially if more scandals like the Roberts news today keep popping up, we might see a greater incentive for accountability. And of course, in politics, something that seems impossible and rock solid today can change tomorrow.

I don't think they can remove lifetime appointments, that are in the constitution, and they wouldn't fix the problems.
The Constitution doesn't actually specify lifetime appointments. It says they "shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour." A bill to limit the SCOTUS to an 18 year term already made it to the House floor last year.
 
They might

But that doesn't address that even if they did, the changes they can make don't address the real issues, just superficial ones.
The Constitution doesn't actually specify lifetime appointments. It says they "shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour." A bill to limit the SCOTUS to an 18 year term already made it to the House floor last year.

 
Sighhhhh. If only we could stack the court with Dem superlegislators instead of judges. WE should add 10 more judges so we can reach that nirvana. One can only dream!
You had no problem with McConnell reducing the Court from nine seats to eight for six plus months, 2016 - 17.

 
Stuff like this isn't helping SCOTUS's legitimacy at all.

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