A child uses their imagination to hide their imaginary friend. When a adult is zeroing in on a childs imaginary friend with questions. The child will then make up something new that is seemingly untouchable. If it turns out there was a route around the new imagined circumstance then the child moves the goalposts again.
The supernatural is nothing more than the moving of goalposts. When one wants their claims to be untouchable, they use the supernatural notion to hide their claims in it.
You cannot find my god because it resides in a place that you cannot investigate.
Once the supernatural is invoked the conversation is over. Just as when talking to a child about their imaginary friend and they become defensive, and put up a even bigger smokescreen. You disengage so that the child doesnt become offended or embarrassed. And the child is just playing so no need to expose them as frauds. The kid knows that they are playing and just making crap up.
But adults who invoke the supernatural, do they know that they are just playing and making crap up?
You cannot know anything about the supernatural, so therefor whoever invokes the supernatural is making it up.Prove it.
I suspect that I know where you are headed with that. But I could be wrong.But honestly, if that's your position, that this is all meaningless made up stuff, why do you feel the need to heavily involve yourself in these debates?
But adults who invoke the supernatural, do they know that they are just playing and making crap up?
A child uses their imagination to hide their imaginary friend. When a adult is zeroing in on a childs imaginary friend with questions. The child will then make up something new that is seemingly untouchable. If it turns out there was a route around the new imagined circumstance then the child moves the goalposts again.
The supernatural is nothing more than the moving of goalposts. When one wants their claims to be untouchable, they use the supernatural notion to hide their claims in it.
You cannot find my god because it resides in a place that you cannot investigate.
Once the supernatural is invoked the conversation is over. Just as when talking to a child about their imaginary friend and they become defensive, and put up a even bigger smokescreen. You disengage so that the child doesnt become offended or embarrassed. And the child is just playing so no need to expose them as frauds. The kid knows that they are playing and just making crap up.
But adults who invoke the supernatural, do they know that they are just playing and making crap up?
But still the supernatural being that it is supposed to be outside of the natural, is unknowable. it doesnt matter what you believe about gods, ESP or whatever, you can know nothing about the supernatural. So invoking the supernatural is meaningless and nothing more than a logical fallacy.Given the lengths some people go to in the service of religion, it would actually be a miracle if they WERE making it up.
Plenty of people genuinely believe. Plenty of people need to believe.
But there are certainly many people throughout history who have pretended to believe for one purpose or another, be it ruling over others or to avoid death at the hands of a ruler.
If you brought a man from the 6th century to ours, they would see magic and witchcraft everywhere.
A child uses their imagination to hide their imaginary friend. When a adult is zeroing in on a childs imaginary friend with questions. The child will then make up something new that is seemingly untouchable. If it turns out there was a route around the new imagined circumstance then the child moves the goalposts again.
The supernatural is nothing more than the moving of goalposts. When one wants their claims to be untouchable, they use the supernatural notion to hide their claims in it.
You cannot find my god because it resides in a place that you cannot investigate.
Once the supernatural is invoked the conversation is over. Just as when talking to a child about their imaginary friend and they become defensive, and put up a even bigger smokescreen. You disengage so that the child doesnt become offended or embarrassed. And the child is just playing so no need to expose them as frauds. The kid knows that they are playing and just making crap up.
But adults who invoke the supernatural, do they know that they are just playing and making crap up?
A child uses their imagination to hide their imaginary friend. When a adult is zeroing in on a childs imaginary friend with questions. The child will then make up something new that is seemingly untouchable. If it turns out there was a route around the new imagined circumstance then the child moves the goalposts again.
The supernatural is nothing more than the moving of goalposts. When one wants their claims to be untouchable, they use the supernatural notion to hide their claims in it.
You cannot find my god because it resides in a place that you cannot investigate.
Once the supernatural is invoked the conversation is over. Just as when talking to a child about their imaginary friend and they become defensive, and put up a even bigger smokescreen. You disengage so that the child doesnt become offended or embarrassed. And the child is just playing so no need to expose them as frauds. The kid knows that they are playing and just making crap up.
But adults who invoke the supernatural, do they know that they are just playing and making crap up?
Who is it that says you cannot know ANYTHING about the supernatural? One may not be able to understand it, but to know nothing about it? That is quite a stretch you are making there.You cannot know anything about the supernatural, so therefor whoever invokes the supernatural is making it up.
I suspect that I know where you are headed with that. But I could be wrong.
This is a "belief" bias at work.
You are convinced there are no gods...so you work out wording that seems to corroborate your bias.
As you pointed out, theists often do that same thing.
I looks just as fishy when you are doing it...as when they are.
But...as to the "supernatural" aspect.
If there are gods...if there are invisible beings...if there are beings existing on different planes/dimensions...
...THEN THEY ARE PART OF NATURE.
They are not "supernatural."
The major problem with your exposition is that you are assuming we humans KNOW all that is nature...and what CAN BE natural.
I doubt seriously that we do.
There may be aspects of nature that DEMAND gods of some fashion.
I just wish hard theists and hard atheists would open their minds and acknowledge the "I do not know" aspect...and abandon their blind guesses for or against while discussing the topic.
A child uses their imagination to hide their imaginary friend. When a adult is zeroing in on a childs imaginary friend with questions. The child will then make up something new that is seemingly untouchable. If it turns out there was a route around the new imagined circumstance then the child moves the goalposts again.
The supernatural is nothing more than the moving of goalposts. When one wants their claims to be untouchable, they use the supernatural notion to hide their claims in it.
You cannot find my god because it resides in a place that you cannot investigate.
Once the supernatural is invoked the conversation is over. Just as when talking to a child about their imaginary friend and they become defensive, and put up a even bigger smokescreen. You disengage so that the child doesnt become offended or embarrassed. And the child is just playing so no need to expose them as frauds. The kid knows that they are playing and just making crap up.
But adults who invoke the supernatural, do they know that they are just playing and making crap up?
But still the supernatural being that it is supposed to be outside of the natural, is unknowable. it doesnt matter what you believe about gods, ESP or whatever, you can know nothing about the supernatural. So invoking the supernatural is meaningless and nothing more than a logical fallacy.
But adults who invoke the supernatural, do they know that they are just playing and making crap up?
You cannot know anything about the supernatural, so therefor whoever invokes the supernatural is making it up.
Who is it that says you cannot know ANYTHING about the supernatural? One may not be able to understand it, but to know nothing about it? That is quite a stretch you are making there.
Try to bust the resurrection of Christ. For some 2,000 years, you people talk about that being nonsense but you are never able to put the first dent in the historical accounts from eyewitnesses, etc.
Try to bust the resurrection of Christ. For some 2,000 years, you people talk about that being nonsense but you are never able to put the first dent in the historical accounts from eyewitnesses, etc.
And for the record, contemporary miracles have been documented. Of course you won't study up on it because then you might have to actually face the facts.
https://www.amazon.com/Miracles-Credibility-New-Testament-Accounts/dp/0801039525
Who is it that says you cannot know ANYTHING about the supernatural? One may not be able to understand it, but to know nothing about it? That is quite a stretch you are making there.
And how exactly do you know people are making stuff up?
The same way that one can deduce a lie. Or how us adults know that a imaginary friend is imaginary. Claims of the ridiculous. unbelievable stories.
Actually I asked if those that invoke the supernatural to back up their claim, if they realize its all just make believe. Most probably do not since they do not think that its make believe. Of course they had to create it anyways even if it was just parroting.Well, my position is that both belief and disbelief in a deity are logical errors because the concept of an omnipresent/omnipotent deity is necessarily beyond empirical proof or disproof.
See post 409:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/philosophical-discussions/255126-you-sure-there-no-god-w-352-a-41.html
You asked how others know that adults who invoke the supernatural aren't just making things up. Well, in the strict sense of the term "know", I suppose nobody knows that other than the persons invoking the supernatural. One person cannot truly know another person. No how matter close one is to a spouse (or would like to believe), I think it is necessarily true that there is always some part that is unknowable. If anything, this derives from the fact that everyone's brain is different. Despite the fact that we haven't the slightest clue how energy moving through matter produces consciousness, which does not appear subject to the laws of physics, time included*, I think it's a completely safe bet that one consciousness cannot know (or intuit, or grok) another consciousness entirely. Hell, I can't even be sure that red looks the same to me as it does to anyone else. All I can be sure of is that non-colorblind persons agree with me about the wavelengths of light to which the term "red" refers. That says nothing of the subjective experience. So how on Earth could one possibly expect to truly know someone's core being? I think it's a fair bet to say that pretty much none of us truly understands every last aspect of ourselves.
So while I suppose I can't truly know that someone else truly believes their religious or supernatural claims, I'm willing to bet I'm at least a B-grade judge of their sincerity in their belief. People believe all sorts of things, and quite a few have taken actions that do a tad more than merely suggesting belief.
I doubt that Jews died on the inquisition's rack because they didn't believe. I doubt that Christians died on a pyre as part of an elaborate fraud. Etc. Etc. And etc.
___________
*Consider the difference in perception of time in different situations and mental states. Now consider what it would be like if your spatial perception varied so greatly.
*Further, consider that different psychotropic drugs effect different people in markedly different ways. I may become more talkative when I drink, while someone else maybe become an intolerable idiot, and yet another person might tend to start fights. Yet, alcohol has precisely the same effects physically speaking (taking into account differences in weight and the like).
Hard to know and cannot know are not the same. I am not religious, I belong to no specific faith, but most certainly believe in a creator. That there might be something grander out there, and probably is, that we might know of but cannot understand is completely possible.The supernatural is fantasy, so you will find it hard to know anything about it.
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