Study from two top academic institutions back need to fix, asnd use background check system

notquiteright said:

How little you know about which you type... :roll:

Any FFL has a chance of being inspected once every 10 years. No matter the issues with this inspection the ATF can't come back without a detailed court order- which can take years to obtain, the business can continue to sell firearms without further inspections.... if after years of 'due process' the owner is found guilty the punishment is often a small fine another family member takes over with a tiny name change and no jail time.

However a quick Google will show how some FFLs have been amazingly ahhhh 'sloppy' with sales records but did no jailtime (even after strawman purchases have been traced back to them) a small fine, the owner still works at the shop and business as usual...

But the direct answer is no one knows how many are because the ATF is so hamstrung in auditing FFLs.... out of 134,738 FFLs only 11,009 were inspected. How many years would it take to inspect every FFL.... eace

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should be a state issue. the ATF shouldn't exist in the first place

TurtleDude said:

should be a state issue. the ATF shouldn't exist in the first place

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In your highly biased opinion, which should be noted is backed by no case law, or Supreme Court decisions.... :roll:

Odd for a self described life long legal expert to hold such a biased and unsupported opinion... eace

notquiteright said:

In your highly biased opinion, which should be noted is backed by no case law, or Supreme Court decisions.... :roll:

Odd for a self described life long legal expert to hold such a biased and unsupported opinion... eace

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remind me what part of the constitution PROPERLY delegates such power to the federal government. tell me why someone selling firearms in his own home state-say only firearms made in that state-should have to have a federal license. Lets see if you want to play constitutional theory games with me.

notquiteright said:

Sounds like you do the usual TD duck and dodge with a runny excretion of rambling rhetoric.

You have ZERO idea if the rejections are in fact felons or simple mistakes, you have ZERO idea if the state courts go after felons for outstanding warrants/parole violations if nothing else, and the biggest travesty to keeping FFL firearms out of felons hands is completely ignored. FFL holders have little to fear from the ATF, they MAY be inspected once a decade, can't be re-inspected without a court order, seldom face more than a modest fine after years of court while still operating, just change their name and drive on... :roll:

But it is interesting the current DOJ can go after immigrant children as a threat to national security but not the felons applying for firearms- almost seems like someone doesn't want the feds investigating firearm sales- imagine that.... eace

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I just want to make sure I understand what you’re saying. This comes across as “I want FFLs investigates for every transaction but if the purchaser falsifies their 4473 it’s probably a mistake.”

Do i have that more ir less right?

notquiteright said:

Sounds like you do the usual TD duck and dodge with a runny excretion of rambling rhetoric.

You have ZERO idea if the rejections are in fact felons or simple mistakes, you have ZERO idea if the state courts go after felons for outstanding warrants/parole violations if nothing else, and the biggest travesty to keeping FFL firearms out of felons hands is completely ignored. FFL holders have little to fear from the ATF, they MAY be inspected once a decade, can't be re-inspected without a court order, seldom face more than a modest fine after years of court while still operating, just change their name and drive on... :roll:

But it is interesting the current DOJ can go after immigrant children as a threat to national security but not the felons applying for firearms- almost seems like someone doesn't want the feds investigating firearm sales- imagine that.... eace

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I love a guy who has absolutely no clue about law enforcement spewing this garbage. We have a pretty good idea of the number of wrongful denials. Typical leftwing nonsense. the fact is-if you are PROPERLY DENIED you are a Perjurer and yet few of those people are prosecuted. 12 UNDER the Clinton Administration-yet CLINTON bragged about thousands and thousands of denials

notquiteright said:

To be fair you think 90% of firearm laws 'harass' firearm owners. But you don't see actually enforcing laws to keep FFLs from violating federal law as very important... eace

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yet another lie. I actually commenced litigation to successfully strip a bad dealer of his license-permanently and then another one of my colleagues prosecuted him for knowingly selling to a felon. SO you are just plain lying. Laws that penalize actually harmful behavior I support-such as knowingly selling or providing guns to violent criminals. But lets look at the laws you Democrats want to pass

1)banning the owning even registered machine guns-Not objectively harmful
2) owning 10+ round magazines -not objectively harmful
3) waiting periods-only applies to honest citizens
4) registration of firearms-only applies to honest citizens
5) "assault weapon bans-only applies to honest citizens-not objectively harmful to own an "assault weapon"
6) how many guns you can buy in a month-numbers are not objectively harmful

notquiteright said:

How little you know about which you type... :roll:

Any FFL has a chance of being inspected once every 10 years. No matter the issues with this inspection the ATF can't come back without a detailed court order- which can take years to obtain, the business can continue to sell firearms without further inspections.... if after years of 'due process' the owner is found guilty the punishment is often a small fine another family member takes over with a tiny name change and no jail time.

However a quick Google will show how some FFLs have been amazingly ahhhh 'sloppy' with sales records but did no jailtime (even after strawman purchases have been traced back to them) a small fine, the owner still works at the shop and business as usual...

But the direct answer is no one knows how many are because the ATF is so hamstrung in auditing FFLs.... out of 134,738 FFLs only 11,009 were inspected. How many years would it take to inspect every FFL.... eace

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No one knows how many are what? Facilitating straw purchases? Just because there is a backlog in inspections doesn’t mean that illegal purchases are running rampant at FFL’s. I did not search google for the numbers and you did not say how many cases were documented. Come on.....Use some common sense. You and I both know that the majority of illegal gun sales happen on street corners between gang members and organized crime. Yes, of course there are some “good ‘ol boy” transactions as well in states like Arizona where it is legal to sell your weapon to someone without going to an FFL as long as you have reason to believe the transferee is not someone who legally cannot own a weapon. There are so many guns in circulation in this country that the authorities cannot even begin to police the black market commerce that is going on or protect us against the criminals wielding those weapons. The best thing that law abiding people can do is arm themselves and not be the next victim.


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TurtleDude said:

making someone pay a dealer to do a background check so that someone can lend a relative a shotgun for hunting on his farm is not acceptable. Its stupid harassment

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I would agree. It is possible pass a law about background checks without going to that extreme.

Chillfolks said:

I would agree. It is possible pass a law about background checks without going to that extreme.

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How would you word a law about background checks for private sales?

Rucker61 said:

How would you word a law about background checks for private sales?

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I'm not a lawyer so I wouldn't write it but here is the dumbed down idea;

It would be about the permanent transfer of ownership more so than about the "sale" of a firearm and include something about long term loaning, the time frame is negotiable but I think somewhere above the 2-4 week loan threshold would require a check. It would set the fee $5 or below and ban raising the fee for at least 15 years after that sunset a 2/3 majority of each chamber in Congress is minimum votes needed to raise. It would require police arresting information compliance within 72 hours. If one fails the check there would be a process to challenge that result.