Statement by the President of Ukraine on another interference of the Russian Federation

[Rogue Valley]

So why is Russia handing out Russian passports in Donbas then? Is that not a precursor in a few years to a Russian invasion of Donbas to "protect Russian citizens?"

Indeed. Such "seeding" is what happened in Crimea. In 1944 Stalin deported the Tatar population of 191,000 to Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan. The mass deportation encompassed every person of Crimean Tatar descent, including children, women, and the elderly, and even those who had been members of the Communist Party or the Red Army (recalled from the war front and shoved into railroad cattle cars). After this act the term "Crimean Tatar" was banished from the Russian-Soviet lexicon, and all Tatar toponyms (names of towns, villages, and mountains) in Crimea were changed to Russian names on all maps. Muslim graveyards and religious objects in Crimea were demolished or converted into secular places. During Stalin's rule, nobody was allowed to mention that this ethnicity even existed in the USSR. The cleansed indigenous Tatars were replaced by ethnic Russians which acted as a fifth column 60 years later during the illegal 2014 annexation.

 

[Chagos]

‘Don’t Waste Your Time,’ Zelenskiy Tells Putin After Citizenship Offer To Ukrainians

Russia's "freedoms".



Well said.

To add one aspect:

The Ukrainian passport allows its holders visa-free travel to the EU. For 90 days within a 180 day period and not for work and with Ireland and UK not included in this visa-exemption.

One can just see how Ukrainians (even in the Donbas) will be raring to give up this advantage in favor of becoming a citizen of a country that's run by as repressive a regime as Russia currently is.

Of course those dyed-in-the-wool NovaRossiya acolytes will probably prefer Czardom, but that they actually represent the whole of the Donbas population is one of the troll myths peddled on here.

As always Volodya is playing to his own gallery.

 

[Westphalian]

So why is Russia handing out Russian passports in Donbas then? Is that not a precursor in a few years to a Russian invasion of Donbas to "protect Russian citizens?"

Should Ukraine use large scale military force to injure, kill ethnic Russian citizens in Donbas, would you prefer that Russia leaves them to suffer and die, or would you expect it to intervene to stop what would amount to ethnic cleansing?

 

[Westphalian]

Indeed. Such "seeding" is what happened in Crimea. In 1944 Stalin deported the Tatar population of 191,000 to Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan. The mass deportation encompassed every person of Crimean Tatar descent, including children, women, and the elderly, and even those who had been members of the Communist Party or the Red Army (recalled from the war front and shoved into railroad cattle cars). After this act the term "Crimean Tatar" was banished from the Russian-Soviet lexicon, and all Tatar toponyms (names of towns, villages, and mountains) in Crimea were changed to Russian names on all maps. Muslim graveyards and religious objects in Crimea were demolished or converted into secular places. During Stalin's rule, nobody was allowed to mention that this ethnicity even existed in the USSR. The cleansed indigenous Tatars were replaced by ethnic Russians which acted as a fifth column 60 years later during the illegal 2014 annexation.

Sounds much like the de-Russianisation policy pursued by Ukraine. Banning Russian books, media, changing street names etc. A stated policy of forced Ukrainisation.


Ukraine is being steadily 'cleansed' of ethnic Russians.

 

[Chagos]

Sounds much like the de-Russianisation policy pursued by Ukraine. ..........~

Ah, so even in your usual whataboutism, you actually confirm the Kremlin shenanigans.

Joke being of course that you don't realize it, logic appearing to be as alien to you as truth.

 

[Chagos]

Should Ukraine use large scale military force to injure, kill ethnic Russian citizens in Donbas, would you prefer that Russia leaves them to suffer and die, or would you expect it to intervene to stop what would amount to ethnic cleansing?

I'd expect your thuggish regime to first of all quit actively supporting the killing of Ukrainians.

Where, that is, it's not actually Russians themselves that are doing the killing.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Should Ukraine use large scale military force to injure, kill ethnic Russian citizens in Donbas, would you prefer that Russia leaves them to suffer and die, or would you expect it to intervene to stop what would amount to ethnic cleansing?

You didn't answer my question. You have a history in this regard, when you get a question you don't like, you cannot simply answer honestly but demand I answer your questions instead.

Anyhow, you mention "ethnic Russian citizens" - not that I think citizens shouldn't be allowed to live in other countries but why not (like Israel does) offer your own citizens travel back to their home nation if threatened in.a hostile state?

Educate me, how did those "ethnic Russian citizens" come to be in Donbas?

 

[Rogue Valley]

Sounds much like the de-Russianisation policy pursued by Ukraine. Banning Russian books, media, changing street names etc. A stated policy of forced Ukrainisation.

As always, you lie. Ukraine has pursued a policy of "decommunization".

Statues of Lenin and Communist "heroes" have been removed. Place names that refer to Communist historical events and personages have been changed.

Why would any nation glorify a rotten system (Stalinist Communism) that murdered and imprisoned millions of her citizens?

 

[Chagos]

As always, you lie. Ukraine has pursued a policy of "decommunization".

Statues of Lenin and Communist "heroes" have been removed. Place names that refer to Communist historical events and personages have been changed.

Why would any nation glorify a rotten system (Stalinist Communism) that murdered and imprisoned millions of her citizens?

Beyond which, leaving aside the political issue of de-communization, efforts to put the Ukrainian language (including traditions, cultural aspects etc.) back into the place it originally held, simply constitute the reversal of the Russification that was imposed upon Ukrainians even before Soviet times.

That whole campaign going back to the times of Peter and (later) Catherine and not being confined to Ukraine alone (Finland and Livonia aka Livland come to mind).

Pretty much reminiscent of the Germanification of those parts of Poland that it annexed (better said Polish regions after the state as such was disbanded).

As I always point out, a historical tidbit for the interested reader, not so much for the benefit of lying propaganda trolls whose sole purpose of posting here is to spread asinine tripe.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Beyond which, leaving aside the political issue of de-communization, efforts to put the Ukrainian language (including traditions, cultural aspects etc.) back into the place it originally held, simply constitute the reversal of the Russification that was imposed upon Ukrainians even before Soviet times.

 

[Westphalian]

As always, you lie. Ukraine has pursued a policy of "decommunization".

Statues of Lenin and Communist "heroes" have been removed. Place names that refer to Communist historical events and personages have been changed.

Why would any nation glorify a rotten system (Stalinist Communism) that murdered and imprisoned millions of her citizens?

As always, you lie - a puerile way of debate but the wrongly accused can hardly sit and take it with no response. I think you meant that you disagree with me - I know diplomacy is dead in the US but you really need to re-learn it.

It doesn't matter what label is attached to a policy. They could call it a policy of Mickey Mouse for all I care.

But it's de-Russianisation. Ukraine has not been a communist state for 30 years. That's a red herring. The policy of banning Russian books, media and language restrictions are all anti Russian.

It's de-Russianisation not a policy designed to combat a non existent communism, let alone Stalin.

 

[Chagos]

As always, you lie - a puerile way of debate but the wrongly accused can hardly sit and take it with no response.

...and one can always count on you, like in this case, to make your response yet a further confirmation of the original accusation.

~.................But it's de-Russianisation. Ukraine has not been a communist state for 30 years. That's a red herring. The policy of banning Russian books, media and language restrictions are all anti Russian.

As I pointed out, the policy can be seen as one of re-Ukrainisation and thus reversal of the Russification previously imposed by your thuggish gods. What it is primarily though is curbing the disinformation that comes from the likes of you and other Russian trolls that lie as though there will be no tomorrow. Confirmed by your lie here of EVERYthing Russian being banned, when the parameters of restriction are not only quite clear but also specific in addressing content of exactly the sort that you prefer to spread.

In addition to which, all it would take for restrictions to be lessened or even scrapped, would be for your masters to get the hell out of Ukraine altogether, thus ending their fascist occupation ambitions.

 

[Rogue Valley]

The policy of banning Russian books, media and language restrictions are all anti Russian.

Show us the Ukraine law banning Russian books and media.

Did all of the Ukrainians in Odesa (5th largest city) and Zaporizhia (6th largest) and Dnipro (3rd largest) and Kharkiv (2nd largest) and Kryvyi Rih (8th largest) and Mykolayiv (10th largest) suddenly stop speaking Russian?

Those are all majority Russian-speaking cities, and there are many others such as Mariupol and Berdyansk.

Your RT accusations are so lame they're actually absurd :lamo

 

[Westphalian]

Ukraine bans Russian books. I could write a book on this, but it would probably be banned in Ukraine and ignored by those on here who like to live in some sort of fantasy dreamland about Ukraine which acts much like Nazi Germany.

Even western media object to Kiev's media and literature bans.

Why don't you?

Ukraine publishers speak out against ban on Russian books | Books | The Guardian

 

[Chagos]

Ukraine bans Russian books. I could write a book on this, but it would probably be banned in Ukraine and ignored by those on here who like to live in some sort of fantasy dreamland about Ukraine which acts much like Nazi Germany.

Even western media object to Kiev's media and literature bans.

Why don't you?

Ukraine publishers speak out against ban on Russian books | Books | The Guardian

One can argue and criticize the prudence (and even justice) of banning any sort of literature (in part like here or in total), but you are not of the moral material to make yourself the champion of any of it.

Anyone bringing up Nazi Germany in defense of his country behaving exactly like those very Nazis, has completely lost it way beyond just credibility.

Sudetenland, anyone?

 

[Rogue Valley]

What is this?

Disappearing books: How Russia is shuttering its Ukrainian library

Ukrainian books in a Moscow library being removed.

----------

More importantly - Why are Russian military forces in eastern Ukraine? Ukraine is not your land.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Statement by the President of Ukraine on another interference of the Russian Federation in the internal affairs of Ukraine

Russia is intensifying its assault on Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Related: Kiev condemns Russia offer of easy passports to east Ukrainians

This practice is illegal under international law and under the Geneva Conventions regarding militarily occupied land. As a tactic of hybrid warfare, it functions as a divide to the citizens of Ukraine. It also serves up an excuse for the Kremlin on future invasions of eastern Ukraine (protecting Russian citizens). As everyone is keenly aware, Moscow would not tolerate another nation dispensing passports on the territory of the Russian Federation. Evident also, this is an early Moscow test of the new Ukraine president Volodmyr Zelensky.

Ukraine outlaws Russian passports issued for its citizens in Donbas

5/8/19
The Ukrainian government has invalidated Russian passports issued to Ukrainian citizens of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, which are partially occupied by the Russian-backed militants. “The passports issued to Ukrainian citizens on our territory, the territory of the sovereign Ukrainian state, will be deemed illegal … when crossing the state border and when used on the territory of our state,” said Prime Minister Volodymyr Groysman at a cabinet meeting on May 8. Groysman also called on other countries to do the same.

Expected and necessary. Why anyone would desire the passport of a pariah state like Russia is beyond me. The Ukraine passport is far more powerful globally in terms of acceptance and free visa travel.