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Starfield

Uncensored2008

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Way back in the early days of the PC, circa 1986, a game was made called "Star Flight." It was a revolutionary achievement that created what would later be named "Sandbox games." The game basically plopped the player in a starship, with a galaxy full of stars that had planets, and let them mine, capture wildlife, engage in piracy, fight aliens, or whatever they wanted.

Fast forward to 2023 and Bethesda has rolled out a modern take on this model with Starfield. The name isn't an accident, Bethesda proudly acknowledges their inspiration for their new game.

So, is it any good? Does it live up to 25 years in development? Let's take a look.

First off, Microsoft bought Bethesda games and made some VERY questionable decisions about Starfield. The first one was that they took the PC game in development and turned it into an XBox exclusive in an attempt to bolster their fading XBox line. Oh the game is still on PC - as an XBox port, but Nintendo and Sony are both shut out.

I find this to not only be a bad business decision, but also a terrible technological decision. All modern games should be designed for the PC and then ported to consoles. Start with the highest technology and port down.

By designing for XBox, the game is confined to XBox limitations. Particularly AMD hardware, no ray tracing or DLSS here. Which leads to the first question, graphics. Well, this is NOT Cyberpunk 2077 by any means. It looks, and undoubtedly is, the Fallout 4 engine upscaled. The player models for closeup dialogue are good, but everything scales way down when not in dialogue. The artwork is very well done, so it would be wrong to say the visuals aren't good - but this is definitely 2018 technology, not 2023 - and this is driven purely by the XBox.

Many people had expected Skyrim in space. That is not what this is, it is Fallout in space. The pace and feel of the game are very much Fallout - which is not a bad thing, Fallout 4 is one of the best games ever made. The story starts out slow, but is solid. The characters are well fleshed out - though far too woke for my tastes. The promise of "do anything" is absolutely there, all the crafting options from Fallout - with settlement building replaced by spaceship building - but some of the ships that have been built are nothing less than spectacular.

I'm playing on PC and the controls are good for the most part - though menus are nerfed by the XBox centric nature. Still, everything responds well to a mouse/keyboard. I've run into several serious bugs, but they have all been one-off, reload and they are gone. Some are really annoying, screen stutters that are exceptionally bad. A few triggers that just wouldn't fire. But reloads have got me past all of these so far.

Combat is fun, with a huge selection of weapons that all feel unique. Space combat is meh, seems like an afterthought - even though this is a space game.

Some Bethesda people split off a few years ago and released a game called Outer Worlds - that clearly is the same genre. Outer Worlds has a more advanced graphics engine and really a good game. But it isn't the massive open world that Starfield is.

Given the competition from not just Outer Worlds, but also Chris Robert's Star Citizen, Starfield needs to fill some massive shoes to hit high marks, and it just doesn't quite make it. It's a good game, but can't climb to great, much because of the XBox decision.

My rating, 7.5 out of 10
 
Xbox and PS5 are higher end hardware than the average PC. Games are gimped for low end PC hardware not current consoles.
 
Way back in the early days of the PC, circa 1986, a game was made called "Star Flight." It was a revolutionary achievement that created what would later be named "Sandbox games." The game basically plopped the player in a starship, with a galaxy full of stars that had planets, and let them mine, capture wildlife, engage in piracy, fight aliens, or whatever they wanted.

Fast forward to 2023 and Bethesda has rolled out a modern take on this model with Starfield. The name isn't an accident, Bethesda proudly acknowledges their inspiration for their new game.

So, is it any good? Does it live up to 25 years in development? Let's take a look.

First off, Microsoft bought Bethesda games and made some VERY questionable decisions about Starfield. The first one was that they took the PC game in development and turned it into an XBox exclusive in an attempt to bolster their fading XBox line. Oh the game is still on PC - as an XBox port, but Nintendo and Sony are both shut out.

I find this to not only be a bad business decision, but also a terrible technological decision. All modern games should be designed for the PC and then ported to consoles. Start with the highest technology and port down.

By designing for XBox, the game is confined to XBox limitations. Particularly AMD hardware, no ray tracing or DLSS here. Which leads to the first question, graphics. Well, this is NOT Cyberpunk 2077 by any means. It looks, and undoubtedly is, the Fallout 4 engine upscaled. The player models for closeup dialogue are good, but everything scales way down when not in dialogue. The artwork is very well done, so it would be wrong to say the visuals aren't good - but this is definitely 2018 technology, not 2023 - and this is driven purely by the XBox.

Many people had expected Skyrim in space. That is not what this is, it is Fallout in space. The pace and feel of the game are very much Fallout - which is not a bad thing, Fallout 4 is one of the best games ever made. The story starts out slow, but is solid. The characters are well fleshed out - though far too woke for my tastes. The promise of "do anything" is absolutely there, all the crafting options from Fallout - with settlement building replaced by spaceship building - but some of the ships that have been built are nothing less than spectacular.

I'm playing on PC and the controls are good for the most part - though menus are nerfed by the XBox centric nature. Still, everything responds well to a mouse/keyboard. I've run into several serious bugs, but they have all been one-off, reload and they are gone. Some are really annoying, screen stutters that are exceptionally bad. A few triggers that just wouldn't fire. But reloads have got me past all of these so far.

Combat is fun, with a huge selection of weapons that all feel unique. Space combat is meh, seems like an afterthought - even though this is a space game.

Some Bethesda people split off a few years ago and released a game called Outer Worlds - that clearly is the same genre. Outer Worlds has a more advanced graphics engine and really a good game. But it isn't the massive open world that Starfield is.

Given the competition from not just Outer Worlds, but also Chris Robert's Star Citizen, Starfield needs to fill some massive shoes to hit high marks, and it just doesn't quite make it. It's a good game, but can't climb to great, much because of the XBox decision.

My rating, 7.5 out of 10
I remember playing Starfield way back in the eighties.

It was a mind blower and very entertaining.
 
Xbox and PS5 are higher end hardware than the average PC. Games are gimped for low end PC hardware not current consoles.

Both the XBox series S/X and the Playstation 5 use amazingling similar hardware. Both have an AMD Ryzen 5 CPU with an integrated Radeon GPU. The CPU is pretty standard 8 core , 3.8 ghz stuff. The GPU is modified, but is roughly a Radeon 5700.

The current top end CPU on PC is the Intel I9 13900, a 24 core monster at 5.6 ghz. The 13900 produces roughly 70 times the GFLOP compute power of Ryzen 5. We have to keep in mind that the 13900 is $600 chip and more expensive than an entire XBox (or PS5)

When it comes to GPU, the world had moved on. The Nvidia RTX 4900 is king of the hill. A massively powerful card with an equally impressive price. The Radeon 5700 of the consoles isn't in the same ballpark as any RTX card, much less the mighty 4900. But a $1600 card better be able to mop the floor with a $500 console or no one would buy it.

The only valid source for finding what mainstream gaming PC's have hardware wise is the Steam Survey.

The most common CPU is a 10th gen I5, significantly more powerful than the Ryzen 5.

What really matters though is GPU. The most common is the GTX 1650 which is pretty similar in performance to the Radeon 5700. What is surprising is that the #2 slot is the massive RTX 3060, which is vastly more powerful.


So no, PC's don't hold games back, and writing to the most capable hardware ALWAYS means developing to PC specs and then scaling down. Games can be easily scaled down - scaling up is far more difficult.
 
Way back in the early days of the PC, circa 1986, a game was made called "Star Flight." It was a revolutionary achievement that created what would later be named "Sandbox games." The game basically plopped the player in a starship, with a galaxy full of stars that had planets, and let them mine, capture wildlife, engage in piracy, fight aliens, or whatever they wanted.

Fast forward to 2023 and Bethesda has rolled out a modern take on this model with Starfield. The name isn't an accident, Bethesda proudly acknowledges their inspiration for their new game.

So, is it any good? Does it live up to 25 years in development? Let's take a look.

First off, Microsoft bought Bethesda games and made some VERY questionable decisions about Starfield. The first one was that they took the PC game in development and turned it into an XBox exclusive in an attempt to bolster their fading XBox line. Oh the game is still on PC - as an XBox port, but Nintendo and Sony are both shut out.

I find this to not only be a bad business decision, but also a terrible technological decision. All modern games should be designed for the PC and then ported to consoles. Start with the highest technology and port down.

By designing for XBox, the game is confined to XBox limitations. Particularly AMD hardware, no ray tracing or DLSS here. Which leads to the first question, graphics. Well, this is NOT Cyberpunk 2077 by any means. It looks, and undoubtedly is, the Fallout 4 engine upscaled. The player models for closeup dialogue are good, but everything scales way down when not in dialogue. The artwork is very well done, so it would be wrong to say the visuals aren't good - but this is definitely 2018 technology, not 2023 - and this is driven purely by the XBox.

Many people had expected Skyrim in space. That is not what this is, it is Fallout in space. The pace and feel of the game are very much Fallout - which is not a bad thing, Fallout 4 is one of the best games ever made. The story starts out slow, but is solid. The characters are well fleshed out - though far too woke for my tastes. The promise of "do anything" is absolutely there, all the crafting options from Fallout - with settlement building replaced by spaceship building - but some of the ships that have been built are nothing less than spectacular.

I'm playing on PC and the controls are good for the most part - though menus are nerfed by the XBox centric nature. Still, everything responds well to a mouse/keyboard. I've run into several serious bugs, but they have all been one-off, reload and they are gone. Some are really annoying, screen stutters that are exceptionally bad. A few triggers that just wouldn't fire. But reloads have got me past all of these so far.

Combat is fun, with a huge selection of weapons that all feel unique. Space combat is meh, seems like an afterthought - even though this is a space game.

Some Bethesda people split off a few years ago and released a game called Outer Worlds - that clearly is the same genre. Outer Worlds has a more advanced graphics engine and really a good game. But it isn't the massive open world that Starfield is.

Given the competition from not just Outer Worlds, but also Chris Robert's Star Citizen, Starfield needs to fill some massive shoes to hit high marks, and it just doesn't quite make it. It's a good game, but can't climb to great, much because of the XBox decision.

My rating, 7.5 out of 10
PC components are just too expensive to justify continually upgrading in order to play the latest releases. Consoles are a much more affordable option for most gamers, so I'm personally glad that Starfield was built to run primarily on the XBOX.
 
The first one was that they took the PC game in development and turned it into an XBox exclusive in an attempt to bolster their fading XBox line. Oh the game is still on PC - as an XBox port, but Nintendo and Sony are both shut out.
Why are acting like this is some huge significant deal? Nintento is shut out? Did you expect a Switch release? Since when has Sony let their exclusives run on Xbox?

Both Sony and Microsoft have been doing a good job so far of allowing more games to run on PC at least. I don't like exclusives either but it seems a weird thing to single out.

All modern games should be designed for the PC and then ported to consoles. Start with the highest technology and port down.
Consoles are the most common denominator. There are way more console gamers than PC gamers. Also at this point consoles are the better technology on average, especially VRAM as they have 10-14gb usable depending on the game.

Not only that but they are more similar to PCs than they have ever been in their design. The Xbox is actually the most similar now and because it uses DirectX developing a game for Xbox and PC are functionally the same thing, vs Sony which uses their own solution.

By designing for XBox, the game is confined to XBox limitations. Particularly AMD hardware, no ray tracing or DLSS here.
?

The Xbox has ray tracing and AMD hardware has ray tracing? They probably didn't add it either because the game barely runs on consoles and PCs as it is or because they didn't want to/known how to implement it into their new game engine (creation engine 2.0). They also started making this game before the current consoles were announced and only Nvidia has RTX 2000 cards.

It isn't like Bethesda has been on the cutting edge of tech with any of their games. Why they didn't add DLSS to their PC port is beyond me, but the game isn't held back by Xbox and even without RT you need a $500+ PC GPU to run the game at ultra 1080p.

It looks, and undoubtedly is, the Fallout 4 engine upscaled.
It is not. They basically built an entirely new game engine from scratch for their next gen releases (Starfield/Skyrim 6).

but this is definitely 2018 technology, not 2023
Just because it doesn't have ray tracing? It uses multiple DirectX 12 Ultimate exclusive features that didn't exist in 2018 like variable rate shading, mesh shaders, etc. On top of being so demanding to run that even the best GPU in 2018 (RTX 2080Ti) can't get 60 FPS at 1080p ultra.

Xbox is fading?
Not anymore than it is been the last decade or so. Series X/S market share is mostly in line with its previous 25% market share from last gen.
1694607106445.webp

I agree with your review of the game, but your technical analysis is baffling.
 
Both the XBox series S/X and the Playstation 5 use amazingling similar hardware. Both have an AMD Ryzen 5 CPU with an integrated Radeon GPU. The CPU is pretty standard 8 core , 3.8 ghz stuff. The GPU is modified, but is roughly a Radeon 5700.

The current top end CPU on PC is the Intel I9 13900, a 24 core monster at 5.6 ghz. The 13900 produces roughly 70 times the GFLOP compute power of Ryzen 5. We have to keep in mind that the 13900 is $600 chip and more expensive than an entire XBox (or PS5)

When it comes to GPU, the world had moved on. The Nvidia RTX 4900 is king of the hill. A massively powerful card with an equally impressive price. The Radeon 5700 of the consoles isn't in the same ballpark as any RTX card, much less the mighty 4900. But a $1600 card better be able to mop the floor with a $500 console or no one would buy it.

The only valid source for finding what mainstream gaming PC's have hardware wise is the Steam Survey.

The most common CPU is a 10th gen I5, significantly more powerful than the Ryzen 5.

What really matters though is GPU. The most common is the GTX 1650 which is pretty similar in performance to the Radeon 5700. What is surprising is that the #2 slot is the massive RTX 3060, which is vastly more powerful.


So no, PC's don't hold games back, and writing to the most capable hardware ALWAYS means developing to PC specs and then scaling down. Games can be easily scaled down - scaling up is far more difficult.
GTX 1650 is in no way similar to the performance of an RX 5700. An RTX 2060 would be a closer comparison for performance.
 
The most common CPU is a 10th gen I5, significantly more powerful than the Ryzen 5.
Presumable you are talking about the i5 10600, a CPU that will at best perform within single digit % better than the Ryzen 7 3700x found in the series x/ps5.
1694610267839.webp
WOW! That IS significantly more powerful. God forbid I get 0.4 less FPS in Hitman 2.

The GPU is modified, but is roughly a Radeon 5700.
The closest PC GPU to a Series X in performance is the RX 6700XT or RTX 3060 12gb.

The most common is the GTX 1650 which is pretty similar in performance to the Radeon 5700.
Say sike right now.
1694610700482.webp
 
Way back in the early days of the PC, circa 1986, a game was made called "Star Flight." It was a revolutionary achievement that created what would later be named "Sandbox games." The game basically plopped the player in a starship, with a galaxy full of stars that had planets, and let them mine, capture wildlife, engage in piracy, fight aliens, or whatever they wanted.

Fast forward to 2023 and Bethesda has rolled out a modern take on this model with Starfield. The name isn't an accident, Bethesda proudly acknowledges their inspiration for their new game.

So, is it any good? Does it live up to 25 years in development? Let's take a look.

First off, Microsoft bought Bethesda games and made some VERY questionable decisions about Starfield. The first one was that they took the PC game in development and turned it into an XBox exclusive in an attempt to bolster their fading XBox line. Oh the game is still on PC - as an XBox port, but Nintendo and Sony are both shut out.

I find this to not only be a bad business decision, but also a terrible technological decision. All modern games should be designed for the PC and then ported to consoles. Start with the highest technology and port down.

By designing for XBox, the game is confined to XBox limitations. Particularly AMD hardware, no ray tracing or DLSS here. Which leads to the first question, graphics. Well, this is NOT Cyberpunk 2077 by any means. It looks, and undoubtedly is, the Fallout 4 engine upscaled. The player models for closeup dialogue are good, but everything scales way down when not in dialogue. The artwork is very well done, so it would be wrong to say the visuals aren't good - but this is definitely 2018 technology, not 2023 - and this is driven purely by the XBox.

Many people had expected Skyrim in space. That is not what this is, it is Fallout in space. The pace and feel of the game are very much Fallout - which is not a bad thing, Fallout 4 is one of the best games ever made. The story starts out slow, but is solid. The characters are well fleshed out - though far too woke for my tastes. The promise of "do anything" is absolutely there, all the crafting options from Fallout - with settlement building replaced by spaceship building - but some of the ships that have been built are nothing less than spectacular.

I'm playing on PC and the controls are good for the most part - though menus are nerfed by the XBox centric nature. Still, everything responds well to a mouse/keyboard. I've run into several serious bugs, but they have all been one-off, reload and they are gone. Some are really annoying, screen stutters that are exceptionally bad. A few triggers that just wouldn't fire. But reloads have got me past all of these so far.

Combat is fun, with a huge selection of weapons that all feel unique. Space combat is meh, seems like an afterthought - even though this is a space game.

Some Bethesda people split off a few years ago and released a game called Outer Worlds - that clearly is the same genre. Outer Worlds has a more advanced graphics engine and really a good game. But it isn't the massive open world that Starfield is.

Given the competition from not just Outer Worlds, but also Chris Robert's Star Citizen, Starfield needs to fill some massive shoes to hit high marks, and it just doesn't quite make it. It's a good game, but can't climb to great, much because of the XBox decision.

My rating, 7.5 out of 10
Was star flight similar to elite for the bbc computer?
 
Way back in the early days of the PC, circa 1986, a game was made called "Star Flight." It was a revolutionary achievement that created what would later be named "Sandbox games." The game basically plopped the player in a starship, with a galaxy full of stars that had planets, and let them mine, capture wildlife, engage in piracy, fight aliens, or whatever they wanted.

Fast forward to 2023 and Bethesda has rolled out a modern take on this model with Starfield. The name isn't an accident, Bethesda proudly acknowledges their inspiration for their new game.

So, is it any good? Does it live up to 25 years in development? Let's take a look.

First off, Microsoft bought Bethesda games and made some VERY questionable decisions about Starfield. The first one was that they took the PC game in development and turned it into an XBox exclusive in an attempt to bolster their fading XBox line. Oh the game is still on PC - as an XBox port, but Nintendo and Sony are both shut out.

I find this to not only be a bad business decision, but also a terrible technological decision. All modern games should be designed for the PC and then ported to consoles. Start with the highest technology and port down.

By designing for XBox, the game is confined to XBox limitations. Particularly AMD hardware, no ray tracing or DLSS here. Which leads to the first question, graphics. Well, this is NOT Cyberpunk 2077 by any means. It looks, and undoubtedly is, the Fallout 4 engine upscaled. The player models for closeup dialogue are good, but everything scales way down when not in dialogue. The artwork is very well done, so it would be wrong to say the visuals aren't good - but this is definitely 2018 technology, not 2023 - and this is driven purely by the XBox.

Many people had expected Skyrim in space. That is not what this is, it is Fallout in space. The pace and feel of the game are very much Fallout - which is not a bad thing, Fallout 4 is one of the best games ever made. The story starts out slow, but is solid. The characters are well fleshed out - though far too woke for my tastes. The promise of "do anything" is absolutely there, all the crafting options from Fallout - with settlement building replaced by spaceship building - but some of the ships that have been built are nothing less than spectacular.

I'm playing on PC and the controls are good for the most part - though menus are nerfed by the XBox centric nature. Still, everything responds well to a mouse/keyboard. I've run into several serious bugs, but they have all been one-off, reload and they are gone. Some are really annoying, screen stutters that are exceptionally bad. A few triggers that just wouldn't fire. But reloads have got me past all of these so far.

Combat is fun, with a huge selection of weapons that all feel unique. Space combat is meh, seems like an afterthought - even though this is a space game.

Some Bethesda people split off a few years ago and released a game called Outer Worlds - that clearly is the same genre. Outer Worlds has a more advanced graphics engine and really a good game. But it isn't the massive open world that Starfield is.

Given the competition from not just Outer Worlds, but also Chris Robert's Star Citizen, Starfield needs to fill some massive shoes to hit high marks, and it just doesn't quite make it. It's a good game, but can't climb to great, much because of the XBox decision.

My rating, 7.5 out of 10

I remember Star Flight. I played it regularly, and I beat it many times. It was an awesome adventure the first 10 times you played it. I can still remember the coordinates of the star base (125x100) and the group of fluxes around there that took the player to various spots, including the area of space inhabited by the Gazertoids.

I remember the black copy protection code wheel and the map that came with the game. These were a must have to play the game.

Thanks for the memories.

I would add that I am very irritated that I cannot play Star Field because I do not have an SSD with enough free space. So disappointed!
 
Wait did this turn into console peasants vs pc master race?
No. Because I'm defending the consoles but I don't have a current gen one, but do have an above average gaming PC.
 
Wait did this turn into console peasants vs pc master race?
It did in a misplaced way. The Xbox and PC have never been more similar platforms. The Xbox is basically a PC with a locked down operating system at this point.
 
Starfield is very entertaining. I loved the original Fallout 1/2 games.

I’m not going to lie, flying around in my jetpack on a low grav planet, stabbing space pirates, is more fun than it has any right to be.

It still has some major flaws. Weight management is too annoying. The UI can be cumbersome. There are too many loading screens that should really be scenic space views. Some things are too formulaic. Food is useless. Chems are strong. Ship combat is a bit too important. Outposts are not intuitive. Quest management is annoying as well.
 
Xbox and PS5 are higher end hardware than the average PC. Games are gimped for low end PC hardware not current consoles.

Consoles don't have revolutionary hardware, they just have a standard set up hardware which allows game programmers to efficiently write to a specific platform.

I've always looked at the PC/Console trade off as maybe a bit too limiting because it assumes that the two hardware platforms will only be used for gaming... because mostly that is all the console can do well.

Consoles and Apple computers operate on some of the same ideology. Knowing that you are locking the system in to a specific CPU and GPU architecture allows you to integrate them on the same chip. The actual architecture isn't innovative as much as it is highly efficient. Apple goes the extra step of integrating RAM onto the same chip as well ... this is all great if you are willing to tie yourself to the capabilities and tasks that these manufacturers envision for their platform.

You can do 4K gaming with the console, and 4K video editing with a Mac... but you can't do both on either very well.

The PC lets you do all of it on one platform. If all you want to do is game, then a console is for you and you will save money, if all you want to do is photo/video editing then a Mac might be best for you. If you want to do both, then the PC is you best bet and likely cheaper than a comparable Mac, and certainly cheaper than a console plus a PC or Mac.

TL;DR - If you love freedom, buy a gaming PC. ;)
 
Was star flight similar to elite for the bbc computer?

Star Flight didn't have a 3D engine, it was a text/2D graphics game. If you put Elite and Star Flight together you'd get a fairly good old school representation of Starfield.
 
GTX 1650 is in no way similar to the performance of an RX 5700. An RTX 2060 would be a closer comparison for performance.

Not exactly.

The 2060 creams the AMD card.

1695154974161.webp

The 1650 lacks raytracing and DLSS, but performs similar to the 2060.
1695155116868.webp
 
Presumable you are talking about the i5 10600, a CPU that will at best perform within single digit % better than the Ryzen 7 3700x found in the series x/ps5.
View attachment 67467622
WOW! That IS significantly more powerful. God forbid I get 0.4 less FPS in Hitman 2.


The closest PC GPU to a Series X in performance is the RX 6700XT or RTX 3060 12gb.


Say sike right now.
View attachment 67467624


You're comparing the Ryzen 7, not the 5. Nor does your list show the Radeon 5700 on it.

I run a Ryzen 9 7900XT, I have no issue with AMD (other than heat) but the facts remain.
 
Not exactly.

The 2060 creams the AMD card.

View attachment 67468593

The 1650 lacks raytracing and DLSS, but performs similar to the 2060.
View attachment 67468594
User benchmark is a completely unreliable source of performance. Cite literally any other benchmark.

You're comparing the Ryzen 7, not the 5.
Yeah, because the PS5/Series X have a Ryzen 7 5700x in them.

Nor does your list show the Radeon 5700 on it.
No, but the Radeon 5700 is like 2x the performance of a 1650. It isn't even in the same tier.

In fact the 5700 will perform better than the RTX 2060 is basically every game.
1695156710570.webp
 
The 1650 lacks raytracing and DLSS, but performs similar to the 2060.
View attachment 67468594
🤣 Even your own site says you're wrong.
IMG_3669.webp

It isn't close in performance minus RTX features.
IMG_3670.webp


71st is a lot closer to 80th than 135th is. You are making very strange arguments.
 
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